Sharing a few system videos from last night‘s listening session

[Carlos269]

 

[MRJAZZ]

This is my big reference system. The speakers are the Wisdom Audio Adrenaline Rush and Wilson Audio WAMM MK VII subwoofer towers for a total of six towers, three per side. The Wisdom 75” ribbon towers handle frequencies above 150Hz, the Wisdom bass towers from 70 to 150Hz, and the Wilson subs everything below 70Hz. Current I’m using 8 monoblocks: a pair of bridged Cello Audio Duet 350’s on the ribbon towers, four Jeff Rowland Research WL-500 on the bass towers and a pair of Belles MB-500 on the subwoofer towers. Two sets of active electronic crossovers: Wisdom “SMART Brain” for splitting highs and lows at 125Hz, and a Bryson 10B for splitting the bass at 70Hz. The Wisdom SMART Brain has a number of very useful features and is an analog crossover which uses relays and is digitally controlled through a two-way remote control. To avoid over driving the crossover, I use a Wisdom Reference preamplifier for adjusting the gains on the high frequencies and a Gamut CR-2A for adjustment to the gains on the low frequencies after the Wisdom SMART Brain active crossover.

Upstream of the Wisdom SMART Brain crossover is where it gets interesting, because I have placed a System Remastering two-bus chain. The system Remastering is a system and process that I developed to modify any system’s transfer function in a prescriptive and predictable way. You can read the details on this forum in my thread called “There is a smarter way”.

Upstream of the system remastering equipment there is a Cello Audio Palette MIV version equalizer to extend the signal at both ends of the frequency extremes, that enhances “air” and “subterranean bass”. The Cello Audio Palette is driven by the Tubes Research Labs Golden Triode Platinum Edition preamplifier. And the source in this set up is my Digital Audio Denmark AX24 DAC streaming RAW-DSD128 from HQPLAYER through a custom made eXD Digital Network to SDIF-3 converter with an eXD Digital KonNET network switch.

The WAAR system is a very convoluted and complex system with extreme capabilities, which results in effortless and high resolution sound with excellent articulation.

Can you post a picture of your reference system?

 

[Carlos269]

Can you post a picture of your reference system?

 

[morricab]

I thought your new horn setup was your reference now? What are the huge boxes on each side of the Wisdom system?

 

[Carlos269]

I thought your new horn setup was your reference now? What are the huge boxes on each side of the Wisdom system?

Those giant boxes besides the Wisdom Audio Adrenaline Rush speaker bass towers are a pair of Wilson Audio WAMM MK VII subwoofer towers.

I currently have four systems that I consider my best. I call them all reference systems as they are best in class.

What makes the big Wisdom Audio Adrenaline Rush system special is that I can dial it to sound any way that I want with the System-Remastering process equipment that I have implemented in it.

My big OKTAN6 horn system is sounding so good that I have actually decided to leave it as is and instead focus my attention on my next horn system build, which will a reconfiguration of one of my other systems and will feature field-coil compression horns for the mid and high frequency horns and a bass-horn mid-bass.

As far as which systems sounds better, to me, between the current settings in the WAAR and the OKTAN6, I would give the OKTAN6 the edge right now but the WAAR system is a more capable system, with the System-Remastering, and can be tune to sound even better than the OKTAN6. Just have not addressed and implemented what I have learned on the OKTAN6 development on the WAAR system yet. My new creative juices and excitement are instead focused on my next horn build and a few new amplifiers that have arrived in house recently. You should check out my threads over at HiFi Haven because I think that you would find my write ups on my new SET and low power amplifiers interesting.

In addition to my WAAR and OKTAN6 systems, I also consider my trio system of Acapella ION TW-1S plasma tweeters, Loxth-X Polaris full-range back horn loaded, and Emperor subwoofers system and my Fertin field-coil and subwoofers systems also my other reference level systems.

Lots of systems and lots of different flavors. Keeps life interesting.

 

[Wavetouch]

Hi Carlos,
I know that you are passionate in audio and I admire your achievement so far which is not light.

Last time we talked about your audio sound, I couldn't explain exactly what I didn't like from your audio sound. I think this can be an answer.

I live-recorded 4 power cords' sound video few days ago. I think the sound difference between power cords are clear to notice. Please click 4:46 JPS, 18:53 WTPC to hear different PCs. So, you can repeat quickly between time spots. More time marks are in comments.

If you can make the sound more transparent, your audio sound will be more complete.
Alex/WTA

 

[Carlos269]

Hi Carlos,
I know that you are passionate in audio and I admire your achievement so far which is not light.

Last time we talked about your audio sound, I couldn't explain exactly what I didn't like from your audio sound. I think this can be an answer.

I live-recorded 4 power cords' sound video few days ago. I think the sound difference between power cords are clear to notice. Please click 4:46 JPS, 18:53 WTPC to hear different PCs. So, you can repeat quickly between time spots. More time marks are in comments.

If you can make the sound more transparent, your audio sound will be more complete.
Alex/WTA

Hi Alex,
I actually went in the opposite direction. I started with a very transparent sound, but it sounded a bit thin and emphasized the high frequencies. I made some adjustments and got a sound that has more body and heft. The sound now is much fuller and has harmonic density similar to magnetic tape and vinyl playback. The two attribute, transparency and density, are competing interests with each other as their names implies. The key is to strike the right balance. Here is an example of a setting that features transparency and a second and third video with the settings for increased density, with the same song and system, just different System-Remastering settings:

 

[Carlos269]

1st, my suggestion to you for your sound improvement is because I am hoping smart people like you can make the world of audio better. I am done with my sound improvement and out of ideas now. Though I am very satisfied with what I've done and just want to enjoy it from now. You seem to have an energy, resources, and time for higher-fi.

Back to subject, I think transparent sound you mentioned is different from the my system transparency.
Simply, which do you like? JPS sound 4:46 or WTPC sound 18:53 ? To my ears, your system sounds closer to JPS which is bright and glared. I like WTPC sound. Do you like JPS sound?

Alex, I think we must agree to disagree on this one regarding the sound on your video with both the JPS and WTPC powercords. I do not like the sound of either clip. To me it sounds very electronic sounding and not musical. You like a very different sound than what I enjoy. Perhaps others here can comment on the sound of the your video, which by the way is consistent with other videos that you have posted before.

I don’t think that our systems sound anything alike and I’m glad that you are happy with the sound of your system And are enjoying it. As I have mentioned to you in the past, the sound on your videos reminds me of listening to a radio and perhaps that is the sound that you are fond of, but it is not to my taste. I prefer a more articulate, warmer sound with greater low level detail and refinement.

As they say, different strokes for different folks. As long as you and your customers are happy with that sound then it’s all good, but for me, count me out.

 

[Carlos269]

 

[Carlos269]

Understood. That's too bad. You are a magician with the sound but your ears are not ready. I and almost every a'philes took decades to have seasoned ears. I hope you get them soon.
This may open your ears. I try to make my speakers' sound close to the original music. I believe my systems sound closed to the original music than any others. ex.)Whenever I attend the audio show, I always go and listen MBL room because their sound is the best. Here's MBL's best with the master tape. My system is playing worse than MP3. You can hear what I mean by glare from your system.

Original music

Alex, I’m not sure what to say. It appears that you use YouTube videos of the original recordings not only as your reference but also as your source. That’s a pretty low bar if you ask me.

As you clearly point out, “My system is playing worse than MP3.”, and my systems are streaming DSD128 to DSD1024x48 from HQPLAYER. No one is surprised that our two sources sound very different to begin with. If you are happy with the sound you are getting from your system that is great……..but don’t be mistake.

 

[Carlos269]

Understood. That's too bad. You are a magician with the sound but your ears are not ready. I and almost every a'philes took decades to have seasoned ears. I hope you get them soon.
This may open your ears. I try to make my speakers' sound close to the original music. I believe my systems sound closed to the original music than any others. ex.)Whenever I attend the audio show, I always go and listen MBL room because their sound is the best. Here's MBL's best with the master tape. My system is playing worse than MP3. You can hear what I mean by glare from your system.

Original music

Alex, just to show you that I’m not dismissing you and your observations, I have been thinking about what you mentioned, and frankly what others on this and other threads and forums have to say as I like to analyze and learn. I’m not dismissive of any comments as I may learn from them.

After I typed my previous post, a thought came to me. Perhaps with your “seasoned ears” you are picking up the DSD sound signature. You probably have never heard RAW-DSD and are attributing the “glare” from my systems to the DSD sound. I have posted videos of three of my systems on this thread, do you hear the “glare” on the videos of all three of the systems or just one of the systems in particular?

I have a Berkeley Audio Laboratory Alpha DAC, original model without modifications or upgrades, and I find that when streaming PCM from HQPLAYER it is my favorite dac. PCM sharpens the sound and makes it a bit more dynamic. To me streaming PCM sounds a bit more clinical so I prefer DSD, but perhaps PCM is the sound signature that you are used to and the only one that you are familiar with. Just about everything has a clear explanation. If I get a chance I might record some videos of a song or two streaming PCM from HQPLAYER to compare to the DSD versions.

What dac are you using in your setup? Ever listen to high-rate RAW-DSD on your system or at one of the shows?

Stay engaged, you or I might learn a thing or two.

 

[Carlos269]

Thank you for reconsidering about my words (seasoned ears)!

I have Chord Hugo 2 dac but I am not using it. My source is modded Oppo BDP-95. I have modded BDP-105 and 95 sounds better than 105 and Hugo 2 (modded by me and sounds best, played at the show few years ago). Show video, Hugo2

I have/tried few smsl and topping es9038 DACs. I don't like all newer chips and processors because they don't sound honest. Yes. newer processors sound smooth and cleaner but they damage the original sound. I tried all kind of the best digital cables and connectors (even no connector, circuit to circuit) too. My modded Oppo BDP-95 tops them all.

I think I haven't heard R-DSD sound in real yet. I heard it in YT videos few times and thought it sounds bit brilliant (reminds me Beryllium sound). I am sure that sound is different from glare I mentioned.

I hear all your videos sound glared. Later ones sound fatter and that is not more mid-range.

Whatever the source, what important is which sounds better to your ears. I guess you are listening your system a lot and your ears are numb to other system sounds and even the original music. I suggest you take a break for your ears (don't listen a day) and then hear the original music until the orig music sounds absolutely the best to you. That is what I do.

Oh I see. Very good information. If you hear the “glare” on all videos and across all systems then it is definitely something that they all share in common as the make up of the speakers and components of these particular three systems are very different.

Regarding getting acquainted with the “original” sound, how should I go about doing this? How do you get acquainted with the “original” sound of any song? Do I listen to the official video on YouTube on my laptop? Should I play the song/track on my Tidal App on my iPhone or iPad? Should I listen to the “original” song on the radio in my car? What is the best way to become intimately familiar with the “original” sound of songs in your estimation? What is your process for establishing your reference?

 

[Wavetouch]

Regarding getting acquainted with the “original” sound, how should I go about doing this? How do you get acquainted with the “original” sound of any song? Do I listen to the official video on YouTube on my laptop? Should I play the song/track on my Tidal App on my iPhone or iPad? Should I listen to the “original” song on the radio in my car? What is the best way to become intimately familiar with the “original” sound of songs in your estimation? What is your process for establishing your reference?

Try to listen only official videos which sound best. Laptop is OK but small computer speakers (Bose companion 2 $79, excellent), (Amazon Basics $22 fine) are better.

Listen to both the original music and your or my live videos of same song. After listening few times, your ears and brain will calculate and figure out the real live sounds of original sound with your comp speaker.

For my reference, I record/video each time I tune my speakers. Without live recordings, I can't make a good result.
I tune my speakers and then record my speaker sound. Listen/compare the recording and orig music with a computer. Find the difference and then I tune my speaker again similar to the orig music. Then I record speaker sounds. Then listen/compare again with my computer. Back and forth between my computer and audio room many times for 2~3 hours (record 10~15 times). I ears and legs get tired after 3 hours. If I am not satisfied with the speaker sound, I can go on next day again. The records remind me where I was and go next tuning. Or I memo it if it is too delicate to forget.

I use "If You Could Read My Mind- -Gordon Lightfoot" as a reference song. It has smooth and balanced L+R sound. Many orig. songs sound dirty and un-balanced.

 

[Carlos269]

Try to listen only official videos which sound best. Laptop is OK but small computer speakers (Bose companion 2 $79, excellent), (Amazon Basics $22 fine) are better.

Listen to both the original music and your or my live videos of same song. After listening few times, your ears and brain will calculate and figure out the real live sounds of original sound with your comp speaker.

For my reference, I record/video every steps of my tuning speaker. Without live recordings, I can make a good result.
I tune my speakers and then record my speaker sound. Listen/compare the recording and orig music. Find the difference and then I tune my speaker again similar to the orig music. Then I record speaker sounds. Then listen/compare again with my computer. Back and forth between my computer and audio room many times for 2~3 hours (record 10~15 times). I ears and legs get tired after 3 hours. If I am not satisfied with the speaker sound, I can go on next day again. The records remind me where I was and go next tuning. Or I memo it if it is too delicate to forget.
I use "If You Could Read My Mind- -Gordon Lightfoot" as a reference song. It has smooth and balanced L+R sound. Many orig. songs sound dirty and un-balanced.

.
Alex, thanks for shedding some light on your process. The official release on YouTube is the reference in your process and I can see why you say that after fine tuning your speakers to match that sound your speakers and system sound closers to those YouTube videos of the original song than any other system. I think that a paramount difference is that most of us are not try to match the sound of our systems to the sound of YouTube “official” videos played over a laptop or PC speakers. As with many things in this hobby, everyone has their own goals and objectives. it sounds like you are enjoying the fruits of your labor and have achieved success in your objective. I think that I can concede that my systems will never sound like those original YouTube videos, that is just not my goal or objective, it’s is not something that I’m striving to achieve. If that is your goal, why not just save the money and listen to the original music over the laptop or PC speakers instead? After all, that is as good as it can get in your world. Isn’t it?

 

[hopkins]

Try to listen only official videos which sound best. Laptop is OK but small computer speakers (Bose companion 2 $79, excellent), (Amazon Basics $22 fine) are better.

Listen to both the original music and your or my live videos of same song. After listening few times, your ears and brain will calculate and figure out the real live sounds of original sound with your comp speaker.
.

My own "reference" is listening with Etymotic ER4SR, and with those even plugged in to a bluetooth adapter and playing through my phone the sound is really good.

 

[Wavetouch]

.
Alex, If that is your goal, why not just save the money and listen to the original music over the laptop or PC speakers instead? After all, that is as good as it can get in your world. Isn’t it?

Here is the catch. The original sound from Laptop speaker is calculated sound processed by my brain. We know the laptop sound is not really like the original sound but we know the orig sound only in the comparison with speaker sound. My ears are not as pleasant listening tiny laptop spkr as listening hi-end equipment.

 

[Carlos269]

I am not sure I can say below but close anyway.

My speaker sound (live recording) is reproduced sound. But the original sound is recorded directly from the mouth of singer.

My recording: recorded the sound from my speakers = reproduced. I can hear it any time I want from my audio system.

The original music: recorded the sound from a human mouth. You can listen only in the concert or a live event.

Alex, I get it. When you have some free time on your hands, watch a YouTube video on how recordings are produced, from the ”mouth of the singer” to what you hear on YouTube. I think that you will be surprised by what goes on in between, specially nowadays. Even purist audiophile recordings undergo some postproduction work to polish them for release. Ideals are great, realities push us to make decisions, to adapt and thrive or to persist and push on. You and I are examples of each. You are enjoying what you have created as I’m what I have created. Cheers!

 

[cjfrbw]

I made some adjustments and got a sound that has more body and heft. The sound now is much fuller and has harmonic density similar to magnetic tape and vinyl playback. The two attribute, transparency and density, are competing interests with each other as their names implies. The key is to strike the right balance.

Yes, this. High ips tape has that combo of intricate detail without losing body, imaging, heft or tonality, thus its luxuriousness as a source. Getting the upper bass/lower midrange hooked up correctly to the general midrange and upper midrange seems to be key.

 

[morricab]

Hi Alex,
I actually went in the opposite direction. I started with a very transparent sound, but it sounded a bit thin and emphasized the high frequencies. I made some adjustments and got a sound that has more body and heft. The sound now is much fuller and has harmonic density similar to magnetic tape and vinyl playback. The two attribute, transparency and density, are competing interests with each other as their names implies. The key is to strike the right balance. Here is an example of a setting that features transparency and a second and third video with the settings for increased density, with the same song and system, just different System-Remastering settings:

Umm Carlos, I think you need to give up on this system…it’s just…well not good sounding. Recessed mids (listen to the recording on headphones and you will understand) with bloated bass. The first one is nails on chalkboard thin and the other two still lacking presence and transparency.
The other system that you played the Chris Cornell on sounds pretty good. IMO, the two systems are not comparable and sound radically different. Your horn setup also sounds quite good overall , so I am not quite sure why you can’t hear the WAAR system flaws.

 

[hopkins]

Umm Carlos, I think you need to give up on this system…it’s just…well not good sounding. Recessed mids (listen to the recording on headphones and you will understand) with bloated bass. The first one is nails on chalkboard thin and the other two still lacking presence and transparency.

Let's see if he could tune the system to your liking.