Shootout of Nos 6sn7 tubes

[thomask]

Friends, as a newbie I need to ask an obvious question! Sorry.

I recently bought a pre-amp and some tubes to test.

I started with a pair of PSVANE UK-6SN7. I found the sound extremely low.

To give you an idea, the pre-amp is connected to a Cambridge ARX100 amp with 100W per channel pushing a pair of Monitor Audio 300 towers (150W). In this configuration I needed to use more than 90% of the Cambridge's power to obtain a sound at a volume that is, let's say, acceptable for night listening.

Obviously the blame for the bad quality of the Chinese pre-amps had already been decreed! I was already resigned that I had thrown money away. I had already asked to speak with the engineer at the store I bought to find out which parts need to be replaced to increase the output power of the pre-amp...

Behold, on Saturday I decided to put a pair of Linlai E-6SN7 to roll. Without the slightest faith that one last category pre-amp would be able to push tubes even bigger than the ones I had tried...

My friends... It just exploded a loud, clean, smooth, deep sound that I am here enjoying as I write to you. I'm using less than 50% of the Cambridge's power and less than 50% of the pre-amp's power (which I don't realize has ruined the sound quality of the system, quite the contrary without any noise) and I'm getting an amazing sonic response!

Newbie Question: Of course, but I have to ask LOL... Is there a problem with the pair of PSVANE I tested?

They don't overheat, but they play with some errors that I didn't notice in Linlai's pair. I figured it was because of the burning process.

But overall the sound is very good. Only the volume is very, very low.

Another thing I noticed was that the Linlai took a lot of work to connect to the preamp. Really tight. The PSVANE, on the other hand, didn't need as much work to connect to the preamp.

I had tried few Chinese 6sn7 tubes.

They sound decent but not better than vintage tubes.

The problem is that there are too much variaiton and reliability issues among Chinese new produciton tubes.

Psaven Acme 805 and 300b tubes could match vintage tubes in SQ.

I have no experinec with Linai tubes thus no opinion on them.

But they are not inexpensive.

 

[Lowrider75]

Friends, as a newbie I need to ask an obvious question! Sorry.

I recently bought a pre-amp and some tubes to test.

I started with a pair of PSVANE UK-6SN7. I found the sound extremely low.

To give you an idea, the pre-amp is connected to a Cambridge ARX100 amp with 100W per channel pushing a pair of Monitor Audio 300 towers (150W). In this configuration I needed to use more than 90% of the Cambridge's power to obtain a sound at a volume that is, let's say, acceptable for night listening.

Obviously the blame for the bad quality of the Chinese pre-amps had already been decreed! I was already resigned that I had thrown money away. I had already asked to speak with the engineer at the store I bought to find out which parts need to be replaced to increase the output power of the pre-amp...

Behold, on Saturday I decided to put a pair of Linlai E-6SN7 to roll. Without the slightest faith that one last category pre-amp would be able to push tubes even bigger than the ones I had tried...

My friends... It just exploded a loud, clean, smooth, deep sound that I am here enjoying as I write to you. I'm using less than 50% of the Cambridge's power and less than 50% of the pre-amp's power (which I don't realize has ruined the sound quality of the system, quite the contrary without any noise) and I'm getting an amazing sonic response!

Newbie Question: Of course, but I have to ask LOL... Is there a problem with the pair of PSVANE I tested?

They don't overheat, but they play with some errors that I didn't notice in Linlai's pair. I figured it was because of the burning process.

But overall the sound is very good. Only the volume is very, very low.

Another thing I noticed was that the Linlai took a lot of work to connect to the preamp. Really tight. The PSVANE, on the other hand, didn't need as much work to connect to the preamp.

Did you allow proper time for the Psvanes to burn-in?

As for the low gain, maybe the tubes are weak. Did you buy from factory or dealer? Some dealers don't test tubes to high tolerances. Gm or emission could be low. Or maybe they have lower plate current and don't play loud.

 

[Powerman]

Recently I was able to stumble into a pair of Mullard ECC32s, and Brimar CV1988s. I run 3-hole 52' Sylvania bad boys. At first, they both sounded great, but not better than the Sylvania. I was actually disappointed after all the good stuff I heard about ECC32s. The CV1988s were the closest to my Sylv BBs, so for the money, I made my mind up to move the Mullard on and keep the Brimars for spares.

Well, I made another run through to confirm my choice... And I could not tell a difference. Damn! Then I noticed shinny spots above the heaters... Like flashing. They have bottom getters. I thought, are these things "new". I look back at pics from seller and it wasn't my imagination. One pics happened to show the spots just barely showing. So... I put more time on them... Then more time. Holy Cow!

The tubes had zero time on them. Litterally "brand new". They sounded good at first, but stage and space kinda sucked. Now, it's better than the Sylvania. This in in my Lampi B4. I absolutely love that house sound of Mullard and what it does to the bottom end, but I don't like sacrificing top end. But in this case, I lose nothing. The bottom end is even more defined and incredible, but top end is improved. Much more pleasing, but with more resolution and space.

The lampi is unbelievable for stage, but the Mullard make it even better. There is one song I listen to because it just sounds so good. However, there is no "stage" to it. Kind of a crappy recording in that respect. It has always been 2D and homogenous. The Mullard make it sound like it's live in front of me. That "you can touch it" realism, defined stage. Quite amazing.

Of, course I had to do the same for the Brimars. They got better as well, but not quite as good as the Mullard. And that is a disservice to say that... They sound really good, very uncolored, very accurate. Transperant. I usually like that. But I don't need all 3. The Mullard are the new reference. The Sylvania are more... Rock-n-roll. Mid forward, in your face kind of. Certainly "colored", but in a good way. And crisp on top end. I will keep them for the fact they are really good and offer something different. The CV1988s are simply accurate. Thank the tube gods I didn't move those Mullard... Exactly as I have read, they really are special.

 

[jtcfdog]

For what it's worth I'm currently using a Linlai HiFi Black Plate as an input tube along with a pair of Psvane cv181 t.The Linlai is clean,clear,and detailed,excellent highs and bass.The Psvanes are warmer and sweeter with organic mids.It's a perfect balance for me.I've used Sofia blue 6N97s also and they were really impressive until they broke in.Sweet but detailed top to bottom. But they lost most of their appeal after 100 hrs or so.They retained a pleasant lower midrange but the detail faded away. I have no way to test them so I couldn't say why.I bought four of them,two for the preamp I had at the time plus two back ups.I liked them in the amp too.
Before the Linlai/Psvane combo I was happy with GE and Sylvania NOS.

 

[Re-tread]

Greetings @thomask , or, anyone with "firsthand experience" on my niche question below:

Can you describe the discernible sonic differences between a 1955 RCA "gray bottle" 6SN7-GT (which I already have now, see image below), and the earlier sibling 1940's RCA VT-231 6SN7 (of which I am thinking of acquiring)?



Use-case: I have a custom Blue Circle NSC preamp that utilises only ONE (1) x 6SN7GT tube, used in its input stage. The rest of my system can be found in my Signature.

Thank you!

Re-tread

 

[thomask]

Greetings @thomask , or, anyone with "firsthand experience" on my niche question below:

Can you describe the discernible sonic differences between a 1955 RCA "gray bottle" 6SN7-GT (which I already have now, see image below), and the earlier sibling 1940's RCA VT-231 6SN7 (of which I am thinking of acquiring)?

View attachment 135475

Use-case: I have a custom Blue Circle NSC preamp that utilises only ONE (1) x 6SN7GT tube, used in its input stage. The rest of my system can be found in my Signature.

Thank you!

Re-tread

It is not day and night difference.

But RCA vt231 give slightly more refined sound with better treble and wider soundstage.

 

[jadedavid]

It is not day and night difference.

But RCA vt231 give slightly more refined sound with better treble and wider soundstage.

Totally agree.
The differences are incremental and stay with the same basic sonic signature, just with the minimal changes noted above.
If you are looking to change/improve some aspect such as bass, depth, midrange projection, micro details, etc etc, you should look at other options.

 

[Re-tread]

Thank you, @thomask and @jadedavid, very much for your valuable replies. Your feedback is invaluable for fellow travellers embarking on the 6SN7 trek.


Just a brief "tube trajectory" update: As I travel on my path from my current 1955 RCA "gray bottle" 6SN7 GT (photo seen 3 entries above) towards the proposed 1940's RCA VT-231 6SN7, I will first have an opportunity in about 2-weeks to try a NOS 1940's Sylvania VT-231 6SN7 GT (see the image below):



From all the valuable reports found earlier in this thread, this Sylvania VT-231 6SN7 GT should provide a noticeable "up-tick" in the Treble region (from my current baseline), but hopefully not at the expense of the body and richness in the rest of the frequency range. If the sonic trade-off from the Sylvania proves to be too skewed towards the treble region (at the expense of the body and density in the rest of the range), I will definitely move towards acquiring the 1940's RCA VT-231 6SN7 GT, as I originally planned.

Re-tread

 

[Lowrider75]

Thank you, @thomask and @jadedavid, very much for your valuable replies. Your feedback is invaluable for fellow travellers embarking on the 6SN7 trek.


Just brief "tube trajectory" update: As I travel on my path from my current 1955 RCA "gray bottle" 6SN7 GT (photo seen 3 entries above) towards the proposed 1940's RCA VT-231 6SN7, I will first have an opportunity in about 2-weeks to try a NOS 1940's Sylvania VT-231 6SN7 GT (see the image below):

View attachment 135887

From all the valuable reports found earlier in this thread, this Sylvania VT-231 6SN7 GT should provide a noticeable "up-tick" in the Treble region (from my current baseline), but hopefully not at the expense of the body and richness in the rest of the frequency range. If the sonic trade-off from the Sylvania proves to be too skewed towards the treble region (at the expense of the body and density in the rest of the range), I will definitely move towards acquiring the 1940's RCA VT-231 6SN7 GT, as I originally planned.

Re-tread

Ahh, the 1940s Sylvania VT-231 is a wonderful tube, I stocked up during the crazy days of the tube crisis.
It's offers transparency and a sense of realism. Highs are extended, detailed, but smooth, mids are open with wide, 3d imaging. There are no colourations, only a slight amount of bloom.
The only negative is a lack of bass extension. I pair this VT-231 with a tube that has good bass performance.

 

[Lowrider75]

Ahh, the 1940s Sylvania VT-231 is a wonderful tube, I stocked up during the crazy days of the tube crisis.
It's offers transparency and a sense of realism. Highs are extended, detailed, but smooth, mids are open with wide, 3d imaging. There are no colourations, only a slight amount of bloom.
The only negative is a lack of bass extension. I pair this VT-231 with a tube that has good bass performance.

The early 50s Sylvania 6SN7GT is the next generation manufactured on the same productIon line. Very similar but has excellent tight low-end extension.
These Sylvania bear no similarity to RCAs which have a degree of warmth and can add a more classic euphonic sound.

 

[Mendel]

The RCA grey glass and the Sylvania VT-231 sound very different, almost polar opposites in the world of 6SN7s in my opinion. The RCA is rich and soothing, the Sylvania crystalline clarity and shimmering highs. If you love one in your gear it is unlikely you will love the other.
Actually I like them both but rarely use either anymore. I find the RCAs just too coloured for long term listening (although they do make occasional cameos in my amp on jazz and easy listening nights), while the bass of the Sylvania VT-231 is just too lacking to be realistic (although above say 200 hertz that tube is one of the best).
Good luck on your 6SN7 hunt, they were made in the millions and vintage tubes are still plentiful and relatively reasonably priced. My favourite tube!

 

[Re-tread]

Thank you very much, @Mendel, for the additional context by contrasting these two tubes. Which 6SN7 GT tube do you feel is a great compromise (cohesive blend) of the audio spectrum? Any insight would be appreciated.

Re-tread

 

[Mendel]

Thank you very much, @Mendel, for the additional context by contrasting these two tubes. Which 6SN7 GT tube do you feel is a great compromise (cohesive blend) of the audio spectrum? Any insight would be appreciated.

Re-tread

Many people swear by the Tungsol Round Plare 6SN7, but I have never found a pair at the hamfests and off the beaten path tube dealers I used to frequent, and I refuse to pay the prices people are asking these days ($200 and up for a single tube, come on man!).
Ditto the metal base Sylvania 6SN7W.
My personal favourite go to tube is the metal base tubes little brother, the Sylvania 6SN7W with the short bottle and black base. Fantastic bass, very linear midrange with great dynamics and decent top end extension (though not the equal of the Sylvania VT-231 in the highs).
The Sylvania 6SN7GT with the three hole plates, bottom getter and cooper grid posts (often called the “Badboy” tube, but be careful, many unscrupulous sellers call just about any Sylvania 6SN7 a “Badboy”) are great, not quite as crystalline as the VT-231 but much better bass.
The brown base 6SN7WGT are similar to the Ws, a bit drier in the midrange but still great. Hard to go wrong with a Sylvania in this tube type.
The older Tungsols with grey ladder plates (with or without the “mouse ears”) are pretty good. Also like the Raytheon 6SN7WGT with the “umbrella “ spikes and early GE 6SN7GTAs.
Ken Rad black glass tubes are bass monsters (a little too much for me) , the RCA grey glass and National Union black glass are very warm and rich tubes.
So many good ones out there.

 

[thomask]

Thank you, @thomask and @jadedavid, very much for your valuable replies. Your feedback is invaluable for fellow travellers embarking on the 6SN7 trek.


Just a brief "tube trajectory" update: As I travel on my path from my current 1955 RCA "gray bottle" 6SN7 GT (photo seen 3 entries above) towards the proposed 1940's RCA VT-231 6SN7, I will first have an opportunity in about 2-weeks to try a NOS 1940's Sylvania VT-231 6SN7 GT (see the image below):

View attachment 135887

From all the valuable reports found earlier in this thread, this Sylvania VT-231 6SN7 GT should provide a noticeable "up-tick" in the Treble region (from my current baseline), but hopefully not at the expense of the body and richness in the rest of the frequency range. If the sonic trade-off from the Sylvania proves to be too skewed towards the treble region (at the expense of the body and density in the rest of the range), I will definitely move towards acquiring the 1940's RCA VT-231 6SN7 GT, as I originally planned.

Re-tread

If your system is bass heavy, Sylvania vt231 will work.

On the other hand if you want fuller sound, you may try RCA 6f8g with adapters.

 

[Re-tread]

Greetings @Mendel, I am just now finding time to reply to your last entry. Here are my initial thoughts:

Many people swear by the Tungsol Round Plare 6SN7, but I have never found a pair at the hamfests and off the beaten path tube dealers I used to frequent, and I refuse to pay the prices people are asking these days ($200 and up for a single tube, come on man!).
Ditto the metal base Sylvania 6SN7W.
My personal favourite go to tube is the metal base tubes little brother, the Sylvania 6SN7W with the short bottle and black base. Fantastic bass, very linear midrange with great dynamics and decent top end extension (though not the equal of the Sylvania VT-231 in the highs).
The Sylvania 6SN7GT with the three hole plates, bottom getter and cooper grid posts (often called the “Badboy” tube, but be careful, many unscrupulous sellers call just about any Sylvania 6SN7 a “Badboy”) are great, not quite as crystalline as the VT-231 but much better bass.
The brown base 6SN7WGT are similar to the Ws, a bit drier in the midrange but still great. Hard to go wrong with a Sylvania in this tube type.
The older Tungsols with grey ladder plates (with or without the “mouse ears”) are pretty good. Also like the Raytheon 6SN7WGT with the “umbrella “ spikes and early GE 6SN7GTAs.
Ken Rad black glass tubes are bass monsters (a little too much for me) , the RCA grey glass and National Union black glass are very warm and rich tubes.

From this entry above, I think these are 2 strong candidates which I recognise by name, and would thus consider for my use-case:

1940's TungSol "Round Plate" VT-231 6SN7 GT
1950's Sylvania 6SN7 GT "Bad Boy" (3 hole plates, bottom getter)

Of the above names new to me, your sonic description of the Sylvania 6SN7W "short bottle, black base" definitely sounds intriguing.

Sidenote: From what I have read, I think the KenRads may present too much bass for my use-case.

Thank you very much for this awesome short list, and a synopsis of each. Much appreciated..!!

Re-tread

 

[Re-tread]

Greetings @thomask,

If your system is bass heavy, Sylvania vt231 will work.

I believe if you compared the sound of my system to the sound of "most" (the average) hi-fi systems on WBF, mine would be considered to be on the "bass heavy" side of the treble/bass spectrum. With that in mind, I do like high density, full body sound. Thus, I am interested to see how the forthcoming 1940's NOS Sylvania VT-231 6SN7 GT preforms in my system.

On the other hand if you want fuller sound, you may try RCA 6f8g with adapters.

Thank you very much for this suggestion, however, I think I will stay within the designers intended specifications, and stay with the strict 6SN7 GT requirements. I don't 100% know how the different tube variants (even with adapters) will perform in my preamp, nor, do I want to cause any unforeseen issues.

I hope to learn more (from you and others) as I continue down this path, and as I get a few "real life trials" under my belt. Thank you!

Re-tread

 

[Lowrider75]

From this entry above, I think these are 2 strong candidates which I recognise by name, and would thus consider for my use-case:

1940's TungSol "Round Plate" VT-231 6SN7 GT
1950's Sylvania 6SN7 GT "Bad Boy" (3 hole plates, bottom getter)

Times have changed...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2263206200...M3rzzJ5Rwe&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=MORE


TS Round Plate is the best 6SN7 I've ever heard, but I won't be buying any more.

 

[thomask]

Greetings @thomask,



I believe if you compared the sound of my system to the sound of "most" (the average) hi-fi systems on WBF, mine would be considered to be on the "bass heavy" side of the treble/bass spectrum. With that in mind, I do like high density, full body sound. Thus, I am interested to see how the forthcoming 1940's NOS Sylvania VT-231 6SN7 GT preforms in my system.


Thank you very much for this suggestion, however, I think I will stay within the designers intended specifications, and stay with the strict 6SN7 GT requirements. I don't 100% know how the different tube variants (even with adapters) will perform in my preamp, nor, do I want to cause any unforeseen issues.

I hope to learn more (from you and others) as I continue down this path, and as I get a few "real life trials" under my belt. Thank you!

Re-tread

2 NOS 1940'S SYVANIA 6F8G RADIO TUBES AMPLITREX TESTED 100 & 96 % GM !! | eBay

CLOSE MATCHED TUBES TESTED ON MY AMPLITREX AT1000 DIGITAL TESTER. STRONG NOS TEST RESULTS !

www.ebay.com

I recommend you to try the above and compare with Sylvania vt 231.

Sylvania 6f8g will sound fuller than Sylvania vt 231.

You need adapters.

4Pcs 8Pin Octal Socket Saver for EL34 KT88 6550 6L6 6CA7 5U4G 5Z3 274B 6F8G USA | eBay

Octal Gold plated tube saver adapter for EL34 GZ34 KT88 6V6 6L6 5Z3P 6SN7GT. 4 x 8Pin Octal Socket Saver. Gold plated pins for long lifeï¼Tough gold pins with a thick gold plating. Increase height and Protective effect.

www.ebay.com

I have more than 80 kinds of 6sn7 and variants.

They sound different like vintage wines.

Tungsol bgrp is a nice tube but not worth the overhyped price.

6f8g work as 6sn7 tubes although it requires adapters.

I choose tube depending on system and my mood.

 

[Designsfx]

Times have changed...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2263206200...M3rzzJ5Rwe&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=MORE


TS Round Plate is the best 6SN7 I've ever heard, but I won't be buying any more.

I see that they’re sold- did you buy them?

I’ve made a couple of purchases from that seller in the past and he typically offers nice stuff but the prices he’s been putting 6SN7’s at within the last six months or so are outrageous.

 

[marty]

Here's a nice review of 6SN7s from a few years ago from a respected tubophile.

The Basement Stereo Tube Stash

Partial look at the tube stash that keeps my 45 driven basement system going. The 6SN7 is my driver of choice and h...

robertmusic.blogspot.com

I admit I just don't understand the fascination with the overhyped TungSol BGRPs. At any price. They were popular with owners of Lampizator DACs a while ago on this forum but I think most people have moved on from them.