+1 - On your last statement, I don't think anyone who has explored analog disagrees about its superior sonics. Question is whether Marc has a mindset for convenience over SQ or not, or is he just excited over a newly experienced product, and disappointed over an existing analog rig?
Should I stay, or should I go?
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+1 - On your last statement, I don't think anyone who has explored analog disagrees about its superior sonics. Question is whether Marc has a mindset for convenience over SQ or not, or is he just excited over a newly experienced product, and disappointed over an existing analog rig?
Barry, et al, there are no right and wrong answers here
I'm really thinking aloud, and just garnering opinions
My tt rig in the last few days has opened up
A simple thing like keeping the Straingauge cart powered up 24/7, and running the rim drive motor continuously, have already made a massive difference
As I'm sure will the Spiers And Robertson active isoln platform I have planned to go under the tt
I guess I'm just excited at hearing how good digital is in my room, how stellar SOTA streaming already is, and am just looking at my tt as a slightly harder nut to crack in getting the same degree of ease
Re comments on the V12 in reserve, well my weekend and occas midweek runaround is a Citroen DS21 from 1968, and even though pretty much every modern car beats it for fuel economy, safety, etc, the holistic experience of unique hydraulic suspension, impossible to beat comfort and driving position, and history and other-worldly aesthetics/design, means I enjoy driving this car more than any other by a wide margin
Not a direct analogy for Lp listening, but some relevance
I'm really thinking aloud, and just garnering opinions
My tt rig in the last few days has opened up
A simple thing like keeping the Straingauge cart powered up 24/7, and running the rim drive motor continuously, have already made a massive difference
As I'm sure will the Spiers And Robertson active isoln platform I have planned to go under the tt
I guess I'm just excited at hearing how good digital is in my room, how stellar SOTA streaming already is, and am just looking at my tt as a slightly harder nut to crack in getting the same degree of ease
Re comments on the V12 in reserve, well my weekend and occas midweek runaround is a Citroen DS21 from 1968, and even though pretty much every modern car beats it for fuel economy, safety, etc, the holistic experience of unique hydraulic suspension, impossible to beat comfort and driving position, and history and other-worldly aesthetics/design, means I enjoy driving this car more than any other by a wide margin
Not a direct analogy for Lp listening, but some relevance
Marc, I am soooo glad you asked! This is an easy one!
If you are not happy with your current analog set-up then get a new (new for you but buy used) analog set-up. Get your beloved NAT Signature Phono and Magnetostat pair. Figure out the right cartridge for the new turntable/tonearm combination.
Recognize that digital is for people (a) who, for whatever reason, do not want to deal with the organic tweakiness of vinyl playback and the black art of cartridge alignment, (b) who want the convenience of selecting songs on an iPad and skipping tracks via remote control, (c) who cannot find their desired music on LP, (d) who want to pursue the additional (separate but related) hobby of attempting to make their digital playback sound as good as their analog playback, (e) who, for whatever reason, prefer the sound of their music in digital form over the sound of their music in analog form, or (f) some combination of the foregoing.
You do not fall into any of these categories.
Stop driving yourself crazy. Have fun researching, auditioning and selecting a new turntable/tonearm/cartridge set-up.
Enjoy the emotionally-satisfying natural and musical sound of vinyl and tubes which you know, and I know, you love.
Live happily ever after.
If you are not happy with your current analog set-up then get a new (new for you but buy used) analog set-up. Get your beloved NAT Signature Phono and Magnetostat pair. Figure out the right cartridge for the new turntable/tonearm combination.
Recognize that digital is for people (a) who, for whatever reason, do not want to deal with the organic tweakiness of vinyl playback and the black art of cartridge alignment, (b) who want the convenience of selecting songs on an iPad and skipping tracks via remote control, (c) who cannot find their desired music on LP, (d) who want to pursue the additional (separate but related) hobby of attempting to make their digital playback sound as good as their analog playback, (e) who, for whatever reason, prefer the sound of their music in digital form over the sound of their music in analog form, or (f) some combination of the foregoing.
You do not fall into any of these categories.
Stop driving yourself crazy. Have fun researching, auditioning and selecting a new turntable/tonearm/cartridge set-up.
Enjoy the emotionally-satisfying natural and musical sound of vinyl and tubes which you know, and I know, you love.
Live happily ever after.
See where you are coming from Marc, We all have resource constraints and for me there is a right and wrong answer which is what's the best experience/compromise available to me within my resources.
Ked, you have something there
I do contend there is an analog centric presentation to the SGM, more textured w the GG, more vervey w the Dac8
You and Bill disagree w me in this, but the Sgm is a convergent product IMHO
This is NOT to say it fools me into thinking an Lp is playing
But I can listen to the SGM for 2 hrs and not miss lps one jot
For me it's not purely a convenience issue, otherwise I would already be streaming
It's just that maybe I have some way to go to up the ante in my tt, and SGM offers instant access to a library at this cutting edge level for digital, and for the first time I'm not compelled to investigate the next best tt option
I never would have said that even 5 yrs ago
So, convenience of streaming was poor 5 years ago, is great now and coincides w a landmark product
But I know I love what I hear from top tts like Kuzma XL, GP Monaco 1.5, Kronos Pro, and AF1, and they fire those endorphins as much as ever
Just that for the first time, a digital product really does too
I'm probably making no sense at all
I do contend there is an analog centric presentation to the SGM, more textured w the GG, more vervey w the Dac8
You and Bill disagree w me in this, but the Sgm is a convergent product IMHO
This is NOT to say it fools me into thinking an Lp is playing
But I can listen to the SGM for 2 hrs and not miss lps one jot
For me it's not purely a convenience issue, otherwise I would already be streaming
It's just that maybe I have some way to go to up the ante in my tt, and SGM offers instant access to a library at this cutting edge level for digital, and for the first time I'm not compelled to investigate the next best tt option
I never would have said that even 5 yrs ago
So, convenience of streaming was poor 5 years ago, is great now and coincides w a landmark product
But I know I love what I hear from top tts like Kuzma XL, GP Monaco 1.5, Kronos Pro, and AF1, and they fire those endorphins as much as ever
Just that for the first time, a digital product really does too
I'm probably making no sense at all
You are probably right, Ron. You know Marc better (BTW, even though I posted here, I didn't make recommendations either way, just added some observations). From past posting it also seems that Marc "wants" his turntable to sound better, even though he also likes digital, so he should go for that.
I never listened to Nirvana, but looking for the band in the net gave me an idea to what type of music you are addressing. I must say that I find Pink Floyd music much more enjoyable in an old vintage system with JBL 4311 and Quad electronics than in 99% of current high-end systems.
Looking at the recordings people use to establish their preference or use as examples in this forum sometimes I have doubts if people are appreciating the recording format or the recording and mastering quality.
Sorry to disturb your statistic ... Probably you are addressing SOTA tape - not all the Tapeproject tapes are exceptional - or some direct cuts, but I can not endorse such wide statement. But I will not say digital has superior sonics.
Great sentiments above from someone who has clearly lived the journey, Mark, great to see you back with your system up and running again. From my perspective just enjoy the gear and the search but determine your priorities and settle the drama of being unsure if you could be doing it better and settle in again, relax and appreciate what you have already as well. Switching the room back on switches all the connected patterns of behaviour back on with them. The addiction to change and the deeper drugs of music and gear purchase are scary and unreasoning beasts for us all at times. The excitement of the system journey is exhausting if you also can't just settle into long periods of just enjoying the music itself and not thinking about the system at all. This is the resting place for the core of us that doesn't want to constantly think about the why and the what and the how and where to and just be settling in and living in the music.Jumping in on page 3.....I agree with Armin's comments above about the positive aspects of digital, all of those attributes on a daily basis are a wonderful way to live and enjoy music, IF it fits your personality and preferences.
I was thinking as I was reading the last 3 pages and as much as I LOVE listening to Tidal streaming on a daily basis which include several hours of serious listening every evening, I could never not have a great TT setup or R2R deck. For me, it's like having a 12 cylinder car, do you need it- no, is it psychologically comforting to know it's there, even if you don't use it very often, for me it's a big yes. Same for a TT or tape. again just for me.
For me the answer is to have great digital, great vinyl and great tape, then forget about all of that and just enjoy the music.
Id be asking myself whether I want to listen to the system more or the music more and if so I'd get the medium that is less noticeably distracting you from the thing you really want to focus on.
Well you usually don't, but all I read is that you want to buy the SGM and want us to convince you. If you have the money, go ahead. All I am saying is not as an alternative to analog...I know your budget means that you have to prioritize one over the other. Don't forget, Mike got both (or all 3, rather - two tape decks). So when he sees good digital, he can go for it. You are not there. Nor am I. I am further off from you, I don't have any analog. So I can take a call to stay at a 2k used streamer, or spend 15k on the source, which in that case is going on analog. Over the years.
I'm with Bonzo, Ron d is an exceptional new twist destination on the journey. Great observation.
Top advice Ron! Couldn't agree more.
Looking at his table, I can't help but feel it is fundamentally flawed by the motor and lack of motion control. I too think he should go with a more conventional cartridge and a top notch phonostage, which I feel is far more important than the cartridge itself. I suspect that the SG-200s built-in phono is not at the level one gets from a great phonostage, which makes or breaks an analog setup.
Have you ever listened to this Letterman strain gauge? I wouldn't underestimate it.It has a liveliness and presence which is hard to beat, although I would agree that it it not under the top contenders, but coming quite close!
I would also readily have agreed with all of the above in favour with vinyl only a few months ago until I came to listen so some of the latest MSB stuff in conjunction with the Request Beast server. It has opened up for me the digital world in a way which I thought would not be possible. But that is just me of course. I still think it is all about music, not the method of reproduction, but must admit, that at the end of the day, a good master tape copy with the right equipment will send me straight to nirvana.
Actually, just well set up vinyl
Actually is one miraculous aspect of vinyl - set up is an easy think, as proved by the turntables and tonearms I have owned, such as the SME30 or the Forsell. But it seems that in order to perform adequately it needs some obtainium, mysterious part or being set up at full moon light. And curiously vinyl tweakers deeply disagree on methods and convictions in the technical aspects of set up.
I love the diversity and enjoyment of vinyl. I appreciate it and will keep analog in my audiophile life. But I am aware of its limitations.
No, and this is why I wrote "I suspect" . I have found that the phonostage is far more important to overall SQ than the cartridge...all things being optimized, of course. I would much rather have a modest cart and great phonostage than a great cart and modest phonostage, naturally a great cart and phonostage would be preferrable if one has the budget for both.
That set up did sound awesome. Are you saying your Beast+MSB is now sounding better?
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