Shunyata Grounding System

[Kingrex]

I am not saying anyone should make their own cable. I only saw some people doing as such and noted what I have seen other do. I think you want to make sure the cable does not become and antenna.

I have no idea how Shunyata, or any cable maker creates a cable. I know something about the materials and geometry does create and audible affect. Whether one likes that affect is another topic.

I have heard ground boxes are almost always a benefit to a system. I have no idea why. To me its a ground loop. A parallel path for stray voltage to travel. But even a fine systems with a well applied electrical infrastructure seems to benefit from these devices. At some point I will probably try one myself.

What I have been told a couple times is that these devices don't fix problems. They don't get rid of a hum. They are best used when all the infrastructure supporting and powering the system is correct and optimum. Then you go to ground boxes for the finishing touch. Kind of like a sprinkle of fine sea salt on a meal.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...and sea salt is possibly one of the compounds in the device. Hope it's that good French stuff at these prices!

 

[Audire]

...and sea salt is possibly one of the compounds in the device. Hope it's that good French stuff at these prices!

It better be pink sea salt, it’s healthier.

 

[microstrip]

(...) I have no idea how Shunyata, or any cable maker creates a cable. I know something about the materials and geometry does create and audible affect. Whether one likes that affect is another topic.

I have heard ground boxes are almost always a benefit to a system. I have no idea why. To me its a ground loop. A parallel path for stray voltage to travel. But even a fine systems with a well applied electrical infrastructure seems to benefit from these devices. At some point I will probably try one myself. (...)

All I know is that power cables sound different. I find interesting that in the same brand more expensive cables usually sound"better" in the sense we prefer them. Recently I tried to cheat a good friend with no real knowledge of prices with three types of Nordost power cables, but the preferred the more expensive, followed by the next one in price!

In some cases the so called "ground boxes" are just controlled noise generators.

 

[Kingrex]

Thats interesting Microstrip. Try slipping a ching cheng in there.

 

[Sampajanna]

I have an Everest which already has the chassis grounding so I think that box would be redundant. Never tried signal grounding. My system may be too simple for it, or that is what the complicated charts on the Shunyata page seem to suggest….

 

[kennyb123]

In some cases the so called "ground boxes" are just controlled noise generators.

Yes some are, with the idea that there can be a net cancellation. It’s one way to do it.

Shunyata is employing their already proven technologies in their ALTAIRA. I see these more as ground conditioners as they are just passing the ground plane through a Noise Isolation Chamber (NIC).

 

[Kingrex]

Like their Typhoon for power?

 

[kennyb123]

Like their Typhoon for power?

Very large NICs are found in that product but NICs are also found in most of their power distributors.

 

[GuillaumeB]

Without going into too much detail I had my first experience with ALTAIRA before what was supposed to be the Ascot show, sadly cancelled at the last minute.

Myself and Brandon Lauer (now with Audio Research) spent two evenings experimenting with a range of configurations starting with the simple single ALTAIRA Chassis Hub with connections to all my Engström components and Esoteric DAC, all of which have dedicated chassis ground posts. We then added an ALTAIRA Signal Hub - daisy chained to the Chassis Hub - and connected all the pure digital devices, so Cybershaft clock, SonicTransporter and SOTM switch, using the Ground Tail adapters. Finally we ended up with 2 ALTAIRA Signal hubs with all analogue devices on one side, and the DAC joining the digital devices on the other hub. Since we added the different components in different steps we were able to A/B/A the changes, always much easier when one person makes the changes whilst the other stays in the listening position.

I used the word “experimenting” earlier since this was my first experience with the ALTAIRA system and I have a huge amount to learn. Shunyata have provided an impressive library of documents including brochures, concepts guide, system profile guide, hub decision tree… the list goes on. It’s quite overwhelming at first! The idea is to identify the grounding system architecture best suited to your audio system and then using a component continuity worksheet/methodology determine how each component in your system will be grounded, if at all.

With the single chassis ground ALTAIRA we were immediately impressed by the changes however using 2 ALTAIRA Signal Hubs and segmenting the grounds between analogue and digital devices was dramatic with jaw dropping improvements to timing and the leading edge of notes accompanied by what sounded like a further drop in the noise floor. Yes, it was dramatic and all this was in the context of a fully maxed out Shunyata setup with Everest, Omega power cables and the new to be released Omega XLR interconnects.

I can’t wait to explore this new Shunyata tech in more detail!

 

[Sampajanna]

Anyone clear if the chassis grounding is somehow different from what comes with Everest?

 

[Kingrex]

Without going into too much detail I had my first experience with ALTAIRA before what was supposed to be the Ascot show, sadly cancelled at the last minute.

Myself and Brandon Lauer (now with Audio Research) spent two evenings experimenting with a range of configurations starting with the simple single ALTAIRA Chassis Hub with connections to all my Engström components and Esoteric DAC, all of which have dedicated chassis ground posts. We then added an ALTAIRA Signal Hub - daisy chained to the Chassis Hub - and connected all the pure digital devices, so Cybershaft clock, SonicTransporter and SOTM switch, using the Ground Tail adapters. Finally we ended up with 2 ALTAIRA Signal hubs with all analogue devices on one side, and the DAC joining the digital devices on the other hub. Since we added the different components in different steps we were able to A/B/A the changes, always much easier when one person makes the changes whilst the other stays in the listening position.

I used the word “experimenting” earlier since this was my first experience with the ALTAIRA system and I have a huge amount to learn. Shunyata have provided an impressive library of documents including brochures, concepts guide, system profile guide, hub decision tree… the list goes on. It’s quite overwhelming at first! The idea is to identify the grounding system architecture best suited to your audio system and then using a component continuity worksheet/methodology determine how each component in your system will be grounded, if at all.

With the single chassis ground ALTAIRA we were immediately impressed by the changes however using 2 ALTAIRA Signal Hubs and segmenting the grounds between analogue and digital devices was dramatic with jaw dropping improvements to timing and the leading edge of notes accompanied by what sounded like a further drop in the noise floor. Yes, it was dramatic and all this was in the context of a fully maxed out Shunyata setup with Everest, Omega power cables and the new to be released Omega XLR interconnects.

I can’t wait to explore this new Shunyata tech in more detail!

I am not trying to stir the pot. Serious questions. Why does a power supply supported by top end Shunyata gear benefit by grounding boxes? What are the Denali or Everest or other devices not able to do that a parallel ground in an accessory box is able to do.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...this is going to introduce some confusion, IMO. I wonder how many users (or dealers) will read the Shunyata "test" doc and perform the voltage/continuity tests. I have Luxman components, which are not Class1 and have "floating" grounds, for which the Shunyata devices are not recommended (by Shunyata or Luxman). I don't use any grounding boxes for this gear (which sounds great). This should develop into an interesting thread.

 

[GrantS]

Hi. Just dropping in to help clarify some points. The Altaira Ground System is designed to dissipate the RFI and EMI related noise that rides on component chassis and signal grounds. Noise sensitive system's of electronics, whether in medical, audio or recording are bombarded constantly with noise radiation from multiple external and internal sources. Some of the noise is on the AC line; other sources are internal to the components, caused by EMI from their unique power supplies. Other forms of noise are radiated throughout any environment laden with electronics, or other powerful noise sources such as routers or even nearby cell towers... the list is long.

When attempting to mitigate disparate forms of noise, you are dealing with eliminating percentages of a total and not absolutes. Our power cords and power distributors focus on AC line and power-supply generated noise that cross-contaminates the AC path of connected electronics. It's a simple mission on its face -- to provide AC-path isolation and filtering between electronics and their source of power. For example, our products measurably eliminate an enormous percentage of AC path noise in heart-surgery systems, however every OR and Lab I've visited also deals with noise radiation within the environment --from pumps, RF generators and countless other sources. The points of ingress for this noise to penetrate and affect the system performance are legion. This radiated noise bathes the environment to the point that you can measure these fields of intense RF and EMI with a tri-field meter, which I carry with me everywhere I go. Left unaddressed, this noise can show up randomly during cases as these noise fields ebb and flow. My mission at hospitals was originally just the application of our power-line system, but it has evolved into consulting to assist the biomedical teams in isolating issues related to their airborne RF and EMI related noise, and suggesting methods to reduce them. It is generally a separate but often just as critical problem for labs that perform complex catheter ablations.

Virtually any well designed grounding system, when attached to chassis or signal grounds will dissipate RF and EMI generated noise that rides on chassis and signal grounds--in addition to unifying the ground plane for connected electronics. With regard to the Altaira system, each terminal has dedicated filtration tuned to the specific frequencies of noise commonly found riding on chassis and signal grounds. There is double that same filtration at the main terminals to minimize cross-talk between units and to separate classes of components, such as analog from digital. Put simply, well made power cords and power distribution address power supply and AC path generated noise contamination. Altaira's Ground Hub and cable system addresses airborne RF and EMI that attach to component chassis - and signal grounds affected by internal EMI.

Everest and Denali power distributors have ground posts that can be used to achieve a similar-in-kind but far less dramatic result. The filtering on the distributors is more global and less targeted. The posts are not individually isolated on the distributors and rely instead on the NIC chambers for general rather than targeted noise reduction. Using more frequency-targeted, isolation methods to reduce ground plane, chassis-borne and signal ground noise reveals layers of low-level detail, dynamic scale and dimension that is simply not possible with other methods. You can experience some degree of this using just the posts on our power distributors but it pales in comparison to the Altaira's capability. We've done with/without demo's at shows, so the results are easy to hear --as in not at all subtle once the units are connected and run-in for a period of time.

The key to consistent results using any ground-plane isolation/unification system is to follow application guidelines. Once you've addressed a high-percentage of global noise from environmental and the AC-line-power supplies, this will yield unequivocal, dramatic results based on the high-percentage of noise being eliminated. We plan to test these systems in top recording and mastering studios in the coming months and will report the results. The larger the system, generally the more profound the results.

I hope this helps de-mystify some of the murkiness around ground-path filtration and its role vs. power cords and power distribution. Feel free to follow up with us directly if there are questions. We have explained the Altaira system's function and possible applications at great length in our documentation. In the beginning we plan to be very hands-on with training and explaining the system so that each result is consistent.

Best regards,

Grant
Shunyata Research

 

[Kingrex]

Yes Grant, this is true. Noise couples all over our gear. More so through the gear than through the branch circuits and power cords. Power line noise is many times common mode noise from leaking power supplies letting voltage from the neutral leak into the ground wire. Or its distorted wave forms from dimmers, speed controllers, fluorescent/LED lights, SMPS etc.

I thought I heard noise many times couples into equipment such as a not well designed power supply on a phono preamp, then becomes amplified by the circuit and can come out as a radio station through the speakers. Can a ground box help this. If so, where would it need to be attached.

I have a trifield RF sniffer. Its a very basic tool. It does not tell you the frequency and is not good at all in telling you the direction the noise came from. Is it possible to determine the direction of airborn RF to then install a faraday shield to block major sources. Or is RF not so directional. Does it act more like water where a plate in a river will block the main flow but it fills most back in behind.

 

[respected_ent]

Hi. Just dropping in to help clarify some points. The Altaira Ground System is designed to dissipate the RFI and EMI related noise that rides on component chassis and signal grounds. Noise sensitive system's of electronics, whether in medical, audio or recording are bombarded constantly with noise radiation from multiple external and internal sources. Some of the noise is on the AC line; other sources are internal to the components, caused by EMI from their unique power supplies. Other forms of noise are radiated throughout any environment laden with electronics, or other powerful noise sources such as routers or even nearby cell towers... the list is long.

When attempting to mitigate disparate forms of noise, you are dealing with eliminating percentages of a total and not absolutes. Our power cords and power distributors focus on AC line and power-supply generated noise that cross-contaminates the AC path of connected electronics. It's a simple mission on its face -- to provide AC-path isolation and filtering between electronics and their source of power. For example, our products measurably eliminate an enormous percentage of AC path noise in heart-surgery systems, however every OR and Lab I've visited also deals with noise radiation within the environment --from pumps, RF generators and countless other sources. The points of ingress for this noise to penetrate and affect the system performance are legion. This radiated noise bathes the environment to the point that you can measure these fields of intense RF and EMI with a tri-field meter, which I carry with me everywhere I go. Left unaddressed, this noise can show up randomly during cases as these noise fields ebb and flow. My mission at hospitals was originally just the application of our power-line system, but it has evolved into consulting to assist the biomedical teams in isolating issues related to their airborne RF and EMI related noise, and suggesting methods to reduce them. It is generally a separate but often just as critical problem for labs that perform complex catheter ablations.

Virtually any well designed grounding system, when attached to chassis or signal grounds will dissipate RF and EMI generated noise that rides on chassis and signal grounds--in addition to unifying the ground plane for connected electronics. With regard to the Altaira system, each terminal has dedicated filtration tuned to the specific frequencies of noise commonly found riding on chassis and signal grounds. There is double that same filtration at the main terminals to minimize cross-talk between units and to separate classes of components, such as analog from digital. Put simply, well made power cords and power distribution address power supply and AC path generated noise contamination. Altaira's Ground Hub and cable system addresses airborne RF and EMI that attach to component chassis - and signal grounds affected by internal EMI.

Everest and Denali power distributors have ground posts that can be used to achieve a similar-in-kind but far less dramatic result. The filtering on the distributors is more global and less targeted. The posts are not individually isolated on the distributors and rely instead on the NIC chambers for general rather than targeted noise reduction. Using more frequency-targeted, isolation methods to reduce ground plane, chassis-borne and signal ground noise reveals layers of low-level detail, dynamic scale and dimension that is simply not possible with other methods. You can experience some degree of this using just the posts on our power distributors but it pales in comparison to the Altaira's capability. We've done with/without demo's at shows, so the results are easy to hear --as in not at all subtle once the units are connected and run-in for a period of time.

The key to consistent results using any ground-plane isolation/unification system is to follow application guidelines. Once you've addressed a high-percentage of global noise from environmental and the AC-line-power supplies, this will yield unequivocal, dramatic results based on the high-percentage of noise being eliminated. We plan to test these systems in top recording and mastering studios in the coming months and will report the results. The larger the system, generally the more profound the results.

I hope this helps de-mystify some of the murkiness around ground-path filtration and its role vs. power cords and power distribution. Feel free to follow up with us directly if there are questions. We have explained the Altaira system's function and possible applications at great length in our documentation. In the beginning we plan to be very hands-on with training and explaining the system so that each result is consistent.

Best regards,

Grant
Shunyata Research

Hi Grant, would you also be able to give some insight on the 5 levels of the ground cables from $250 Venom to the $800 Omega? How significant of an improvement can one expect from one level to the next level? Thanks.

 

[stevebythebay]

I can attest to the benefits of using Altaira that Guillaume highlighted above. Been testing for a number of weeks, with the assistance of my dealer. It takes a trained dealer to step through the analysis of a customer's system to gain insight into what might be the best candidates for inclusion in the Altaira noise mitigation environment.

I'd had hopes to find nearly all my gear as candidates. Alas, none of my analog devices can benefit for various reasons. My Spectral 500AE mono blocks and associated preamp, designed and implemented by Keith Johnson, have their own approach to grounding and noise isolation, so refuse to play nice with Altaira. My powered subs are internally grounded, so again, not candidates.

So that left the dCS stack, of which the Vivaldi DAC and Upsampler do indeed benefit from being connected to the single Altaira Chassis Ground component. The dCS Clock does not benefit in the least, and when tested with the Altaira SG, actually seems to have problems, when wired via a spare BNC output. I did not get to test this same connection to the CG. And I was not able to wire the chassis due to physical connection issues, as the recessed screws and thickness of the current Altaira spades prevented that. I'm guessing, though I may well be wrong, that grounding the dCS Clock is somehow interfering with the timing of the clock and the connected DAC and Upsampler.

However, wiring the Uptone etherREGEN network switch, using its dedicated grounding post, as well as doing the same with my Cybershaft OP21-D via its dedicated grounding screw had the biggest impact. In the latter instance, I'd tested using the output of one of the free BNC connections. That was OK as far as it went. But using the grounding screw was better. Flipping the switches for all the separate outputs to the common chassis is needed to get the desired results.

My two LPS's - the one dedicated to the Cybershaft and the Uptone JS-2 which powers my Roon Nucleus and the etherREGEN did not appear to deliver any benefit to the SQ of the system via connection to the Altaira CG.

Net: simply using an Altaira CG for connecting just the 4 components I've outlined makes a noticeable difference in lowering the noise floor of the system. That in turn makes the apparent dynamics of the system grow, with the emergence of instruments and voices that were previously less distinct. And another effect is more precision in the location of sounds in the soundstage for width, depth, and height. As they say, mo' betta'.

 

[GrantS]

Regarding the few questions in follow up, yes; RF can be very directional but short of making a faraday cage that covers or encapsulates the sensitive component -- commonly tube circuit electronics or phono, it can be difficult to address. Mobile Fidelity for example runs copper mesh over 100% of the walls and ceiling of their analog lathe room to block RF. Short of that or grounding to conductive paint on all walls (yes, conductive paint exists), defeating RF can be very tricky. I am working with a client in NYC that has that problem (phono/tube system) and its an involved process. Changing component placement can sometimes help. In terms of grounding, if a faraday cage is deployed, grounding from that to an Altaira or even a post on our distributor would add to the isolation and protection from RF. If you are picking up radio stations, I would focus on the pre-amp or phono stage/TT as possible ingress points for RF.

Regarding ground cable levels, the Venom VTX is the baseline cable level that will yield easy to hear results. The next notable level up is the Alpha model because it incorporates silver, which further reduces impedance and enhances performance. From there, I would jump to Omega, which adds Common Mode noise reduction. The Delta and Sigma models are slightly larger gauge versions of the models just below them, so the gradation of performance improvement is smaller than going from Venom to Alpha or Omega. If making decisions on level and budget, the cables or primary importance are the cables running between the main terminals, or any cables with added length beyond 2meters. The Alpha VTX-Ag with the VTX-Ag ground tails will be our most commonly recommended ground cable system for high end applications. Omega customers likely know who they are and the Venom VTX ground cables are what I will use for "prove-it-to-me" recording professionals or dealers, like studio engineers that think its all snake-oil. Venom ground cables are reasonably priced yet makes an obvious difference as part of the system. The more closely one follows our provided guidance, the more dramatic and consistent the results are likely to be.

As always, we are available for individual system guidance and problem solving. After 23 years we've run Into a variety of contexts that inform our recommendations and problem solving suggestions.

Thanks for the questions. Feel free to reach out if we can be of any further assistance.

Grant
Shunyata Research

 

[Kingrex]

I can attest to the benefits of using Altaira that Guillaume highlighted above. Been testing for a number of weeks, with the assistance of my dealer. It takes a trained dealer to step through the analysis of a customer's system to gain insight into what might be the best candidates for inclusion in the Altaira noise mitigation environment.

I'd had hopes to find nearly all my gear as candidates. Alas, none of my analog devices can benefit for various reasons. My Spectral 500AE mono blocks and associated preamp, designed and implemented by Keith Johnson, have their own approach to grounding and noise isolation, so refuse to play nice with Altaira. My powered subs are internally grounded, so again, not candidates.

So that left the dCS stack, of which the Vivaldi DAC and Upsampler do indeed benefit from being connected to the single Altaira Chassis Ground component. The dCS Clock does not benefit in the least, and when tested with the Altaira SG, actually seems to have problems, when wired via a spare BNC output. I did not get to test this same connection to the CG. And I was not able to wire the chassis due to physical connection issues, as the recessed screws and thickness of the current Altaira spades prevented that. I'm guessing, though I may well be wrong, that grounding the dCS Clock is somehow interfering with the timing of the clock and the connected DAC and Upsampler.

However, wiring the Uptone etherREGEN network switch, using its dedicated grounding post, as well as doing the same with my Cybershaft OP21-D via its dedicated grounding screw had the biggest impact. In the latter instance, I'd tested using the output of one of the free BNC connections. That was OK as far as it went. But using the grounding screw was better. Flipping the switches for all the separate outputs to the common chassis is needed to get the desired results.

My two LPS's - the one dedicated to the Cybershaft and the Uptone JS-2 which powers my Roon Nucleus and the etherREGEN did not appear to deliver any benefit to the SQ of the system via connection to the Altaira CG.

Net: simply using an Altaira CG for connecting just the 4 components I've outlined makes a noticeable difference in lowering the noise floor of the system. That in turn makes the apparent dynamics of the system grow, with the emergence of instruments and voices that were previously less distinct. And another effect is more precision in the location of sounds in the soundstage for width, depth, and height. As they say, mo' betta'.

Excellent feedback. I have to read it again and digest all you said. My assumption is that your comments may hold true across a number of similar product offerings.

 

[stevebythebay]

Excellent feedback. I have to read it again and digest all you said. My assumption is that your comments may hold true across a number of similar product offerings.

Rule of thumb : assume nothing. I thought some of my components would play with Altaira. But I was surprised by which ones did and didn't, and which were most affected by how much Altaira cleaned things up for each.