Sme 3012 R

I know this old arm is good but I don’t know why David,Rockitman,Tang,Ron,Mike
Use or will use having top tonearm like Sat,EliteAxiom,Black Beauty,Durand

Why 3012 is so special?
I never had and I don’t understand
Only to know for my curiosity
Regards
Gian

 

Tang's, Christian's and David's listening experience is lacking? There is nothing they could say that would suffice as "evidence." Even if they listened to all the SME arms in their systems someone would say that their turntables didn't bring the best out of the V12.

Sigh. In the context I clearly implied comparisons between 3012R and V-12.

 

Sigh. In the context I clearly implied comparisons between 3012R and V-12.

Who want's a fixed headshell design in the first place ? Talk about lack of listening flexibility and a pain in the ass for cart changeovers.

 

[COLOR="#008000"


Perhaps the comment might be more acceptable to all if we could agree that the V12 is engineered better BUT the SME 3012 sounds better. n[/COLOR]

Good Morning California,

I can agree with half of the above statement .

Cheers!
ALF

 

This is an attempt to move this thread forward.

For those that have the 3012R, what SME headshells have you experimented with? There are several versions of the S2 (2/4 pin, raised letters, finger lift on the side, etc) which ones have you used?

 

Who want's a fixed headshell design in the first place ? Talk about lack of listening flexibility and a pain in the ass for cart changeovers.

No problem with that argument from convenience.

 

One tt, one tonearm, a couple of magnets and lots of foil you better ask ack before leading me down that path

Not that anyone owes anyone any credentials, but I go back 40 years in the high end, with my first Thorens in the late 70s. Move on.

 

This is an attempt to move this thread forward.

For those that have the 3012R, what SME headshells have you experimented with? There are several versions of the S2 (2/4 pin, raised letters, finger lift on the side, etc) which ones have you used?

I am using an OYAIDE HS-CF Headshell only because Christian recommended it. My Zero mounted easily on it so I am good for now.

 

Not that anyone owes anyone any credentials, but I go back 40 years in the high end, with my first Thorens in the late 70s. Move on.

I didn't ask for one nor do I care Thassos, use your 40 years to contribute something useful to the thread instead of this nonsense!

david

 

I can not see how WBF readers can be annoyed with overly enthusiastic statements. They show in most of our threads. Words like "the best", "killed", "supreme" show daily. And sorry, in what was being debated, the only supporting evidence is listening.

Also if people are really interested in history of audio they should carry the proper research in the proper old sources - not go on repeating the same audio gossip that propagates circularly in the internet. Paper magazines had interviews with the SME people, the appearance of the SME V in the middle 80s was a big audio event.

You have a fr64s now as well, right? Have you tried both arms on the same table, or otherwise any impressions?

 

You have a fr64s now as well, right? Have you tried both arms on the same table, or otherwise any impressions?

I had the Ikeda 345 (modern version of the FR 64) and SME 3012R on the same table (Transrotor Fat Bob) using the same cartridge. I just swapped the headshell between arms, using the Ikeda headshell with a Shelter 5000 cartridge mounted. Of the 8 people who listened to both tonearms, 7 preferred the SME and 1 couldn't tell the difference. Most important for me, was the lower distribution on inner grooves.

 

I had the Ikeda 345 (modern version of the FR 64) and SME 3012R on the same table (Transrotor Fat Bob) using the same cartridge. I just swapped the headshell between arms, using the Ikeda headshell with a Shelter 5000 cartridge mounted. Of the 8 people who listened to both tonearms, 7 preferred the SME and 1 couldn't tell the difference. Most important for me, was the lower distribution on inner grooves.

There are differences between Ikeda and FR sonically from what I understand.

 

It took me 73 pages to get this through my thick head. I won't discuss the V-12 anymore on this thread which is devoted to the SME 3012R and its sonic attributes. Thank you everyone for the listening impressions and information you provided about both arms. I did get a PM from a different forum member who was an SME distributor. He read this thread, contacted me, and gave me a lot of fascinating information about the technical/engineering and sonic differences between the two arms. I am grateful for that. I have nothing really useful to contribute to this dedicated thread because I have not heard the 3012R. I get that now. To all those who own and love their 3012Rs, enjoy your systems and listening to music. That is what it is all about.

 

There are differences between Ikeda and FR sonically from what I understand.

There's a great thread on Audiogon regarding this very subject. Johnathan Carr (designer of Lyra) commented that he preferred the Ikeda as the arm wand was better damped and that Mr Ikeda made this improvement over the original FR-64. I personally have not compared the Ikeda 345 vs FR-64.

It's a long thread but a good read.

 

You have a fr64s now as well, right? Have you tried both arms on the same table, or otherwise any impressions?

No, I only used the FR64s in an Oracle mkIII. As my 9" arms can not go in the EMT, I am selling the whole collection ...

The FR64s sounded very dynamic and solid with Kiseki Agate rubi. The keyword was energy and fun. Perhaps bigger than life, but enjoyable.

 

I think Micro puts forth a valid, and perhaps, overlooked point.

Gross Generalization and Stating the Obvious Alert:

An arm designed for a suspended turntable will not perform ideally when mated to a non-suspended design.


An arm designed for a non-suspended turntable will not perform ideally when mated to a suspended design.

An arm designed for low-compliance cartridges will not perform ideally when mated to medium/high-compliance cartridge.

An arm designed for medium/high compliance cartridges will not perform ideally when mated to a low compliance cartridge.

The release of the V-series arms occurred shortly before SME released its own turntable, a fully suspended design that shared elements of A.J. Conti’s designs and those of the Hydraulic Reference (I believe David Gammon was the first to use a paddle damped by a silicone bath in a turntable design), mirroring Michell Engineering’s move in which it built the licensed Transcriptor around its own arm (though most came with SME cutouts for the 3009).

Indeed, if there appears to be a commonality of design solutions among the turntables produced at a similar point in history from SME, Basis, Michell and Linn in the 80s and 90s, it’s that they all attempted to isolate the platter via some form of subplatter/suspension.

The SME Series II arm predates the release of the 30/2 by twenty nine years, produced during a time in which unsprung broadcast turntables were the norm. Coincidence? Perhaps not.

Best,

853guy

+ 1...............

Cheers...........

 

he SME Series II arm predates the release of the 30/2 by twenty nine years, produced during a time in which unsprung broadcast turntables were the norm. Coincidence? Perhaps not.

May I point out that SME used to produce the (very) floppy System 2000 suspended plinth specifically for use with the 3012 on the mentioned broadcast turntables ?

 

May I point out that SME used to produce the (very) floppy System 2000 suspended plinth specifically for use with the 3012 on the mentioned broadcast turntables ?

Hello jdza,

You may indeed point it out.

And as you intimate, it was an unmitigated sonic disaster, introducing resonances/acoustic feedback via its box construction and suspension, as anyone who's used one will attest to. As is perhaps not surprising, it is notably missing from SME's homepage of heritage innovations.

Be well!

853guy

 

Listing for what appears to be a 3012R arm in excellent condition and a nice price.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/163193562302?ul_noapp=true

 

Listing for what appears to be a 3012R arm in excellent condition and a nice price.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/163193562302?ul_noapp=true

And I'm $2k lighter.

 

I see a Denon arm?