Sme 3012 R

I know this old arm is good but I don’t know why David,Rockitman,Tang,Ron,Mike
Use or will use having top tonearm like Sat,EliteAxiom,Black Beauty,Durand

Why 3012 is so special?
I never had and I don’t understand
Only to know for my curiosity
Regards
Gian
 
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ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
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Hi Shakti i also do have a Micro Seiki SF-1L Belt on My Audio Tekne TT its difficult to find can you please advise where to buy or if you have experience whit other Belt/Brands/Types Matching the Specs of SF-1L W3.2MM L1265MM...? Thanks in advance!
TechDas belts are the same thing contact your dealer there.
david
 
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shakti

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2015
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amadeus

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Jan 13, 2018
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TechDas belts are the same thing contact your dealer there.
david
Let me search out if Techdas has new production same specs belts...
Thanks anyway!
 

amadeus

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Jan 13, 2018
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I had the original (unfortunately too old), so I bought a Japanese alternative, which is working fine:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/SF-1L-Belt-...260676?hash=item3d81e4cd44:g:4YgAAOSwPc9WuoQs

I bought my current belt from this vendor.

At the moment Shinya from Japan is offering an original SF-1L.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/MICRO-SEIKI...690577?hash=item2ce8b44a11:g:hK0AAOSwFSxaBlBS

I bought many things from Shinya, so he is open minded to individual price offers.

Good luck!
Thanks for the links my question was also if there are also other alternative different material different type belts suitable for this specs..?
 

shakti

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2015
495
253
63
Cologne, Germany
Let me search out if Techdas has new production same specs belts...
Thanks anyway!
you can replace SF-1 with Techdas , but not SF-1 L, as this length does not exist.

The aftermarket SF-1L does not sound as good as the original and shorter Techdas belt.
 
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Tango

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you can replace SF-1 with Techdas , but not SF-1 L, as this length does not exist.

The aftermarket SF-1L does not sound as good as the original and shorter Techdas belt.
The longer one actually exists Shakti. I have one. Ddk included a few of these belts with the AS2000. It took around two months to further soften the carbon belt until no carbon dust is found.


Afew weeks ago ddk sent me a string to try replacing the carbon belt. He found improvement but I am too lazy to fuzz with it.

Tang
 
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shakti

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2015
495
253
63
Cologne, Germany
great news to me, it looks like, that I have to ask Techdas again ( my last question is a couple of month ago)

Thank you for the update!
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
3,923
448
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Utah
The longer one actually exists Shakti. I have one. Ddk included a few of these belts with the AS2000. It took around two months to further soften the carbon belt until no carbon dust is found.


Afew weeks ago ddk sent me a string to try replacing the carbon belt. He found improvement but I am too lazy to fuzz with it.

Tang
great news to me, it looks like, that I have to ask Techdas again ( my last question is a couple of month ago)

Thank you for the update!
The long belts were specially made for AS2000 not available on open market :).
david
 
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amadeus

VIP/Donor
Jan 13, 2018
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you can replace SF-1 with Techdas , but not SF-1 L, as this length does not exist.

The aftermarket SF-1L does not sound as good as the original and shorter Techdas belt.
Thank you for your effort Shakti.
 

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 4, 2014
838
408
63
I have a question about 3012-R mounting, for purposes of making an armboard...

I'm assuming the 3012-R operates similarly to other SME arms (such as the SME V) by allowing effective length to be set via moving the arm forward and back within its base or sled. Strictly there is no fixed Pivot-to-Spindle, instead SME gives a base/sled/bedplate center to spindle distance. Presumably this allows enough room fore and aft in the base/sled to adjust the effective length for a cartridge. Tell me if this understanding is correct, please.

I've seen "bedplate center to turntable center" number in the 3012R/3010R/3009R manual for the 3012-R as 294.1mm. Another SME brochure says the 3012-R has a typical pivot to stylus distance of 308.8mm. with and distance from bedplat centre to turntable centre of 295.6mm. Would an expert please clarify? Thank you.
 
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dminches

Active Member
Oct 22, 2011
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Tim, when I had a Mint LP tractor made the distance i used was 295.6mm. That worked fine for my setup.
 
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tima

Industry Expert
Mar 4, 2014
838
408
63
Thank you David, that helps.

A Spindle to Bedplate Center distance of 295.6 correlates to the same spec for the SME V-12 arm.

My armboard builder has the V-12 spec'd out so we are curious if the tonearm mount portion is also the same. That would be the size of the slot and the distances and sizes of the 4 mounting holes. If they are the same, this would save creating a new line drawing for the machinist who cuts the armboard out of a block of metal.

Does anyone know if the mounting holes and slot for the SME V-12 are the same for the 3012-R? I always thought of the "SME Mount" as universal across SME arms, but that's anecdotal on my part. Thank you.
 

amadeus

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Jan 13, 2018
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The long belts were specially made for AS2000 not available on open market :).
david
So the longer ones do fit the sizes of SF-1L?
If yes how can i get one?
Thanks in advance!
 

Kcin

Active Member
Mar 27, 2016
184
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Canada
One of Vinyl Engine's posted manuals says turntable centre to bed plate centre is 294.1mm
Thank you David, that helps.

A Spindle to Bedplate Center distance of 295.6 correlates to the same spec for the SME V-12 arm.

My armboard builder has the V-12 spec'd out so we are curious if the tonearm mount portion is also the same. That would be the size of the slot and the distances and sizes of the 4 mounting holes. If they are the same, this would save creating a new line drawing for the machinist who cuts the armboard out of a block of metal.

Does anyone know if the mounting holes and slot for the SME V-12 are the same for the 3012-R? I always thought of the "SME Mount" as universal across SME arms, but that's anecdotal on my part. Thank you.

Hi there,

If you are a member of Vinyl Engine Manuals and Spec sheets are posted there. I thought there might be more definitive help here.

Regardless, I did a search of the 3012R specifications and it lists centre turntable to centre of the sliding bed as 294.1 mm

The pdf is attached.

Hope this helps
 

Attachments

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The definitive manual states the same 294.1mm

s1.jpg
 
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ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
3,923
448
83
Utah
So the longer ones do fit the sizes of SF-1L?
If yes how can i get one?
Thanks in advance!
The ones we had made were slightly longer than SF-1L but I don't have any extras and don't know where you can buy them from. I'll let you know if we order another batch.

david
 
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tima

Industry Expert
Mar 4, 2014
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408
63
One of Vinyl Engine's posted manuals says turntable centre to bed plate centre is 294.1mm



Hi there,

If you are a member of Vinyl Engine Manuals and Spec sheets are posted there. I thought there might be more definitive help here.

Regardless, I did a search of the 3012R specifications and it lists centre turntable to centre of the sliding bed as 294.1 mm

The pdf is attached.

Hope this helps
The definitive manual states the same 294.1mm

View attachment 53908
Thank you both, Kcin and micro, for taking the time to engage on this. I appreciate your help.

I am a member at VE and downloaded copies of the manuals and brochures they have available for the 3012R.

It's a bit of a curious situation. I wonder how much difference is due to Imperial vs. Metric units and decimal vs fractional statement of measure. And which is SME's native tongue?

The SME brochure for the 3009R/3010R/3012R states the 3012R Spindle to Bedplate center at 295.6mm / 11.638 inches. 11.638" converts to 11-41/64"

As you point out the manual has 294.1mm / 11-9/16 inches for this measurement.
11-9/16 inches converts to 293.69 mm (0.41mm shy of 294.1) and 11.56 inches.

(conversions per this calculator.)

Difference between the brochure and manual
... in metric is 1.5mm
... in decimal inches is 0.058"
... in fractional inches is 1/16"

And, the numbers vary slightly based on which way the conversion is done, from what to what.

--> In the end (heh) how much difference does it really make? <--

We're talking about the center point of the arm within the sled/slot and the position of the arm is not fixed there but slides back and forth. Wouldn't it be only at the very end of the slot that one could run out of room for stylus position by, eg. 1/16 of an inch?
 

amadeus

VIP/Donor
Jan 13, 2018
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The ones we had made were slightly longer than SF-1L but I don't have any extras and don't know where you can buy them from. I'll let you know if we order another batch.

david
Thank you ddk do nit forget me when you have a new batch!
 

Tango

VIP/Donor
Mar 12, 2017
2,929
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Thank you ddk do nit forget me when you have a new batch!
PM me your address. I don't plan to use mine. Can give it to you. If I ever need one I will just give ddk my sad look. He is allergic to that. I have to find where I put it first though.

Kind regards,
Tang
 

Kcin

Active Member
Mar 27, 2016
184
87
28
Canada
Thank you both, Kcin and micro, for taking the time to engage on this. I appreciate your help.

I am a member at VE and downloaded copies of the manuals and brochures they have available for the 3012R.

It's a bit of a curious situation. I wonder how much difference is due to Imperial vs. Metric units and decimal vs fractional statement of measure. And which is SME's native tongue?

The SME brochure for the 3009R/3010R/3012R states the 3012R Spindle to Bedplate center at 295.6mm / 11.638 inches. 11.638" converts to 11-41/64"

As you point out the manual has 294.1mm / 11-9/16 inches for this measurement.
11-9/16 inches converts to 293.69 mm (0.41mm shy of 294.1) and 11.56 inches.

(conversions per this calculator.)

Difference between the brochure and manual
... in metric is 1.5mm
... in decimal inches is 0.058"
... in fractional inches is 1/16"

And, the numbers vary slightly based on which way the conversion is done, from what to what.

--> In the end (heh) how much difference does it really make? <--

We're talking about the center point of the arm within the sled/slot and the position of the arm is not fixed there but slides back and forth. Wouldn't it be only at the very end of the slot that one could run out of room for stylus position by, eg. 1/16 of an inch?
I'm not sure that you would have any issue the bed has a lot of adjustment fore and aft. If you're really concerned call SME they are quite approachable.

Otherwise get a piece of 1/4" plywood, use a bolt for a centre spindle measure both suggested distances and mount your arm and cartridge and observe.

On conversion factors, I'm certain SME engineers were using slide rules when this arm was first conceived.
 

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