Soulution 701 Mono's VS Boulder 2150 Monos

Elliot G.

Industry Expert
Jul 22, 2010
3,325
3,041
1,910
Fort Lauderdale, Florida
www.bendingwaveusa.com
There you have it , now a two man survey :)
actually its still a one man survey TWICE and I am glad that you aren't trying to be confrontational.
Just because one person was happy with the piece they owned doesnt make it a universal truth or that is SOTA.
That's just not the facts. You may twist the narrative anyway you want but time marches on and the needle always moves.
 

Alrainbow

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2013
3,249
1,424
450
Im not the one twisting here , you may or may not eventually notice that ..! :)

my discussions are never about what i have ( unless specific ) its mostly about what i perceive , on my audio journey , you are the one attacking and while i rate you along with a few others as one of the best when it comes to dealer setups it doesn't allow you to suddenly move the goal post when it fits you to do so ..
 

marty

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
3,035
4,198
2,520
United States
I am wondering what is a solid stage "benchmark" amp that people always measure against when new SS amps come out? None? Is the newer bigger more expensive one always be the one to measure against the former smaller less expensive ones. And the bigger newer normally wins?

So much to digest in your post. "Benchmarks". Wow. Way too hot a topic mainly because there is no right answer other than live music!- which is a great way to dodge the answer. There are so many excellent SS amps i.e., CH, DartZ, Soulution, D'Ago, Gryphon, etc. All are supposedly basically "straight wires with gain" but as we know, they aren't really that at all as each imposes its own character. So its the "totality of the data" as we like to say in science, that may be the final arbiter. In other words, it's the sound of the system and not the amp alone that matters.

That said, I recently acquired the Soulution 701s as a replacement for the superb and far better valued 511 monoblocs. I'm quite pleased but then again, the fact that I use them in conjunction with tube source gear (Zanden phono and Lampi DAC) is part of the magic for me. Soulution's approach is perhaps the most different than the others which generally eschew feedback in their circuit design. Soulution's Cyrill Hammer believes it's not the use of feedback but how it is implemented which is the key. He feels that some judicious use of local feedback can be used to lower distortion, which everyone agrees is a good thing with potential sonic advantages. Specifically, to eliminate the time-related distortion, graininess, and edginess that feedback engenders, you have to make those feedback loops correct errors instantaneously. This means that circuits and power supplies must operate at incredibly high speeds (which translates into incredibly high bandwidths) and with very high precision. I've become a believer. The density, life-llke color and ultra-low distortion throughout the power and frequency range have led me to describe the Soulution 701 amps as having a triode purity with the balls of Godzilla. Surprisingly, the 511's are actually rated at the same power as the 701's and indeed have the same triode purity, but the sound is, shall we say, less testicular at warp 9. Again, the value proposition is not a contest. The 511 wins hands down (and is accordingly, priced 110K less per pair in retail price and each 511 weighs 100 lbs. less than a 701).

To summarize, there's certainly more than a one size fits all approach and of course if that weren't true, there wouldn't be so many great choices available. Naturally, the same thing is true with tube amps as well (ARC, CJ, Lamm, VTL etc)

One thing I'm fairly certain of is that if I were were to go with Boulder, I wouldn't even consider it unless I were running it with 220V. The sonic difference is significant and remarkable, and in fact, it is what Boulder itself recommends. When I discovered this some years ago, it made me wonder why all top SS amps do not recommend using 220V. Do they all benefit similarly as does the Boulder 2060? There's not a lot of data on this subject, even anecdotal!

Finally, I would mention what has been a common but not popularized declaration by several manufacturers which is that they often feel the smaller amps of their lines often have some sonic advantages in comparison to their monster amps. This was certainly true for some manufacturers such as GAS. Jim Bongiorno thought that his 40W Grandson of Ampzilla sounded better is some ways than his behemoth Ampzilla. Nelson Pass has said the same about some of his Pass gear. The reason, according to Bongiorno, was simply that the smaller powered amps have less demands from their power supplies to do what is necessary for their lower power output requirements. Of course, this was some time ago and power supply designs have surely advanced, so this observation may not be a true as it once was.
 
Last edited:

asiufy

Industry Expert/VIP Donor
Jul 8, 2011
3,711
723
1,200
San Diego, CA
almaaudio.com
One thing I'm fairly certain of is that if I were were to go with Boulder, I wouldn't even consider it unless i were running it with 220V. The sonic difference is significant and remarkable, and in fact, it is what Boulder itself recommends. When I discovered this some years ago, it made me wonder why all top SS amps do not recommend using 220V. Do they all benefit similarly as does the Boulder 2060? There's not a lot of data on this subject, even anecdotal!

Marty,

Here's anecdotal evidence for you then :) In Brazil, I ran my darTZeel 108 on 110v, which posed a huge problem for it, as our 110v is actually 127v nominal, and often goes to 130-132v, which would trip the darTZeel's fuses. The solution? Run it on 220v, which, at least here, is nominally 220v, and quite stable too.

Not only I never saw another blown fuse, the amp was noticeably better, more muscular and quieter. And this is no big behemoth amp...

Unfortunately it's not practical to order 220v amps in the US, and not a lot of amps can be switched between 110/220 easily...


cheers,
Alex
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,587
11,663
4,410
Winston Ma had both 110/120v and 220v outlets in his room and tried a number of amps in both configurations.

he told me that the better sounding configuration was not enitrely predictable to him. mostly he preferred the 110/120v when he compared. lower noise. i asked him about this prior to setting up my room as i considered doing the same thing. if you want maximum power output then maybe the 220v is better, but for music not typically the idea for a mature system.
 

the sound of Tao

Well-Known Member
Jul 18, 2014
3,634
4,883
940
Winston Ma had both 110/120v and 220v outlets in his room and tried a number of amps in both configurations...

... if you want maximum power output then maybe the 220v is better, but for music not typically the idea for a mature system.

Mike, thems’ 110v fightin words lol... on behalf of the people of Europe, China, South East Asia and Oceania I apologise in advance for our 220-240v immaturity... but the argument that it’s not the size of your power that counts but what you do with it is also known here as ‘small voltage syndrome‘ :oops::eek:... as Crocodile Dundee once famously quipped... that’s not a power outlet... NOW THIS is a power outlet! :D
CD4ADE7F-D05F-4693-9088-7C7DF286DCDC.jpeg
78BC4E9E-7759-4A6D-86A5-197926BB3998.jpeg
None of that namby pamby 110v down here... just the big volts!!! o_O:)
6A231EB6-8CC5-4097-9990-A6631946565E.jpeg
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,807
4,700
2,790
Portugal
So much to digest in your post. "Benchmarks". Wow. Way too hot a topic mainly because there is no right answer other than live music!- which is a great way to dodge the answer. There are so many excellent SS amps i.e., CH, DartZ, Soulution, D'Ago, Gryphon, etc. All are supposedly basically "straight wires with gain" but as we know, they aren't really that at all as each imposes its own character. So its the "totality of the data" as we like to say in science, that may be the final arbiter. In other words, it's the sound of the system and not the amp alone that matters.

That said, I recently acquired the Soulution 701s as a replacement for the superb and far better valued 511 monoblocs. I'm quite pleased but then again, the fact that I use them in conjunction with tube source gear (Zanden phono and Lampi DAC) is part of the magic for me. Soulution's approach is perhaps the most different than the others which generally eschew feedback in their circuit design. Soulution's Cyrill Hammer believes it's not the use of feedback but how it is implemented which is the key. He feels that some judicious use of local feedback can be used to lower distortion, which everyone agrees is a good thing with potential sonic advantages. Specifically, to eliminate the time-related distortion, graininess, and edginess that feedback engenders, you have to make those feedback loops correct errors instantaneously. This means that circuits and power supplies must operate at incredibly high speeds (which translates into incredibly high bandwidths) and with very high precision. I've become a believer. The density, life-llke color and ultra-low distortion throughout the power and frequency range have led me to describe the Soulution 701 amps as having a triode purity with the balls of Godzilla. Surprisingly, the 511's are actually rated at the same power as the 701's and indeed have the same triode purity, but the sound is, shall we say, less testicular at warp 9. Again, the value proposition is not a contest. The 511 wins hands down (and is accordingly, priced 110K less per pair in retail price and each 511 weighs 100 lbs. less than a 701).

To summarize, there's certainly more than a one size fits all approach and of course if that weren't true, there wouldn't be so many great choices available. Naturally, the same thing is true with tube amps as well (ARC, CJ, Lamm, VTL etc)

One thing I'm fairly certain of is that if I were were to go with Boulder, I wouldn't even consider it unless I were running it with 220V. The sonic difference is significant and remarkable, and in fact, it is what Boulder itself recommends. When I discovered this some years ago, it made me wonder why all top SS amps do not recommend using 220V. Do they all benefit similarly as does the Boulder 2060? There's not a lot of data on this subject, even anecdotal!

Finally, I would mention what has been a common but not popularized declaration by several manufacturers which is that they often feel the smaller amps of their lines often have some sonic advantages in comparison to their monster amps. This was certainly true for some manufacturers such as GAS. Jim Bongiorno thought that his 40W Grandson of Ampzilla sounded better is some ways than his behemoth Ampzilla. Nelson Pass has said the same about some of his Pass gear. The reason, according to Bongiorno, was simply that the smaller powered amps have less demands from their power supplies to do what is necessary for their lower power output requirements. Of course, this was some time ago and power supply designs have surely advanced, so this observation may not be a true as it once was.
Marty,

As you say, data on 110 / 220V is mainly anecdotal and each case is a case. The problem is more complex than most people can assume - it is not just a voltage and current difference, but also a different mains supplying system, also depending on country. For example, in the US 220V is intrinsically balanced, in Europe it is single-ended.

Mains is not just a sine voltage, it is also impedance, distortion and noise. The safety earth, grounding systems and codes differ a lot, there is too much variation of all the variables to assume a typical condition.

BTW, I also need tubes in my system. But you call them magic, I assume they add specific noise and distortion that makes my system much more enjoyable. And although I accept there is no existing ideal amplifier, I feel that a few amplifiers in your list can't be considered as being "straight wires with gain".
 

Gregadd

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
10,560
1,788
1,850
Metro DC
I have heard them . The Solution at audio shows and the Boulder at my dealer.
Solutions with YG and Boulder Wilson. IMO neither had a significant sonic signature.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing