Sound Quality of new roon versions (builds)

[Legolas]

Late to this party. Well I have almost given up on Roon. I use the 432 EVO AEON server, which can run Roon Core and Logitec Media Server (Squeezebox player). The latter is now ancient, but it still sounds way more transparent and alive to Roon. I tried Roon 1.8 (not sure which build) and it is syrupy, slow, flatter and generally less texture. Everything has a blanket over it.

Believe me, I would love to use Roon, and used to use the Audeze filters with my LD4s, but for 2 channel, it just is not there IMO. Too much information and spacial cues are lost just to get a fancy interface. I agree with Steve W, I don't think Roon are concentrating on high end sounds, and with their resources they should be. Quite possibly they think 95% of clients have a midfi and won't notice or care?

It is all rather sad.

In fact Audirvana sound better last time I checked than Roon. I could go on, TBH it is a lost opportunity, to serve folk with both superb sound and an interface that clearly is good for digging up new tracks and artists. Makes me quite depressed.

Hey, maybe at Roon, they have coders busy in some noisy office environment, that have some bluetooth speakers on the desk, and use those for checking the SQ? Like record producers did a check in mixing, to sound good on a tinny portable plus a 2 channel setup. Except maybe Roon are missing out the bigger 2 channel checks? Got to be some reason why the SQ is all over the map re updates. Something is amiss.

 

[christoph]

Hi guys

There is a new update out for roon 1.8 (build 931).
Any of you brave enough to try it?

Anyone here already updated to hasty-build 936?
If yes, did it go smoothly and even more importantly, how does 936 sound?

 

[christoph]

Interesting thread. I've also noticed a deterioration in Roon's recent upgrades, and Lucas D has mentioned this too. I'd not paid too much attention to it as I'd been fiddling with a few other things in the system, but over a few upgrades, noticed there was something missing. I'm speaking with Lucas likely over the weekend to try a few alternatives so we'll see how that goes. The main issue is that the user experience with Roon is soooo good, it would be hard to move away.
All that said, I've just done the 918 ->923 upgrade and am in the "better" camp. Music seems a bit more dynamic.

Did LD find a permanent solution for you in the meantime?
Have you updated roon and what are your impressions?

 

[Alrainbow]

one of the bigest issues in digital is not what dacs we use , its the damn source we use . i love things as they are period , if i update its a long train ride to make adjustmets to the server and players used IE roon to XX example hq . ill hust avoide the update as long as i can for now . i love the sound of two small low power boards and both would need to be changed hell no . i even had a bunch of small boards and picked the best for me . at one point i drove hiam nuts wgen he had me swap out one board to try . it changed the sound too much made it darker to me . larger boards to me no matter what kind i have tried dont have the speed and top end . i dont upsample so im good as is , upsampling has its merrits but its not for all music . so i leave things alone . now im not saying i know better here we each learn what we like . but man im off the train and just want to hit play lol .

 

[Loco57]

And?
Did you notice a change in the sound after deleting all of the filters?

Christoph,
I have read with great interest your findings and out of interest I have followed your advise and deleted the files completely as my current version is 936 on the core and 880 on the tablet. Was not really expecting that much of a difference but what a very pleasant surprise there was a marked improvement in the overall sound quality best likened to less Digital, the bass improved the most with more depth and impact.
The midrange with a more defined natural resolution along with the top end and the overall depth of the sound stage just became more realistic, it is hard to fathom what their (ROON's) thinking is surly if you switch off a program it should not interfere with the signal path? Having to actually delete the files over an above this is nothing short of stupid, I love the general operational workings of ROON although on the previous build when I clicked over 100k files it took a big nose dive speed wise for any function but found this to be mostly restored with version 936 strange.
I have in the past and still now occasionally had the stuttering problem that just totally destroys the listening experience and ROON was sympathetic but offered no explanation as to a cause or a cure and we proved it was something that their side of the system was doing.
Could this be the CPU being maxed out causing clipping and the dropouts of the signal? I am currently looking at building a Nucleus replacement as 32Gb of Ramm and a 5TB drive inside the unit didn't entirely fix the problem unfortunately.

Thank you for this Gem of information it was well worth the small amount of time taken to delete the files with a very pleasant end result just need to retune the sub stacks now to compensate.

 

[Loco57]

Anyone here already updated to hasty-build 936?
If yes, did it go smoothly and even more importantly, how does 936 sound?

Christoph,
the transition from 935 to 936 went faultlessly unlike some previous sideways, backwards, upgrades took about 2 minutes then a reboot and up and running. With regards to the sound quality in comparison with 935 or earlier nothing jumped out at me as a big change SQ wise so I would have to say business as usual in that department unfortunately. But functionally the system runs much faster than the previous builds that was beginning to worry me as it was becoming next to unusable locking up and so slow once I clicked over the 100k files size.

It was interesting that when I bought the Nucleus as oppose to the + version I was told they were the same just one would handle a larger library and more zones at twice the cost almost, but I wonder in what universe an i3 is the go to processor I would have thought i5 or i7 would be the go at least? Obviously not, limits the future sales/upgrades option I suppose get you hooked and bleed you dry. It is a pity I love the functionality of the ROON system its UI is hard to go past just wish they had a more SQ focus on their product engineering for those who can actually appreciate it.

 

[Alrainbow]

A comment on deletion over fresh install. most programs can benifit from a fresh install. but Roon in the past made the new an entire new scan for me.
It’s been a while since I updated so not sure how things are now.
but I keep older roons and scans in a folder for back up.
Also in the past if I moved the scan or backup it was no longer useful.
i think this is where Roon forums become useful. i wait a while week or two and then lurk on there web site

 

[cjf]

I must be deaf. I use Roon as my only playback software and have never noticed a difference in SQ between versions that I can recall.

But I can notice a difference in swapping out power cords. Not sure what that means in terms of being deaf when it comes to the various Roon versions sounding different.

I do wish they (Roon) would get rid of the communist approach towards updates though. If it were up to me I would still be running 1.7 but the fact that I use QoBuz to stream means that my Roon Core needs Internet access. My mobile phone which I use to control everything also has obvious Internet access where the Roon App runs from. This means all these constant "fixes" can and will eventually find there way to me whether I want/need them or not. I've found that the option to allow or not automatic updates isn't always adhered to within the application. An accident? Probably not

My fear here is that any one of these updates may break a functionality I must use for my system to function (DSP Vol, Convolution Filters). Luckily that hasn't happened (yet) but I suspect that some day it will.

In any event, maybe I'll just chalk up not hearing differences between versions a blessing in disguise.

 

[HughP3]

I must be deaf. I use Roon as my only playback software and have never noticed a difference in SQ between versions that I can recall.

But I can notice a difference in swapping out power cords. Not sure what that means in terms of being deaf when it comes to the various Roon versions sounding different.

I do wish they (Roon) would get rid of the communist approach towards updates though. If it were up to me I would still be running 1.7 but the fact that I use QoBuz to stream means that my Roon Core needs Internet access. My mobile phone which I use to control everything also has obvious Internet access where the Roon App runs from. This means all these constant "fixes" can and will eventually find there way to me whether I want/need them or not. I've found that the option to allow or not automatic updates isn't always adhered to within the application. An accident? Probably not

My fear here is that any one of these updates may break a functionality I must use for my system to function (DSP Vol, Convolution Filters). Luckily that hasn't happened (yet) but I suspect that some day it will.

In any event, maybe I'll just chalk up not hearing differences between versions a blessing in disguise.

i have at times heard or rather felt i did not ike the sound a full reboot seems to i fix things. i have gotten into that habit.

 

[christoph]

Christoph,
I have read with great interest your findings and out of interest I have followed your advise and deleted the files completely as my current version is 936 on the core and 880 on the tablet. Was not really expecting that much of a difference but what a very pleasant surprise there was a marked improvement in the overall sound quality best likened to less Digital, the bass improved the most with more depth and impact.
The midrange with a more defined natural resolution along with the top end and the overall depth of the sound stage just became more realistic, it is hard to fathom what their (ROON's) thinking is surly if you switch off a program it should not interfere with the signal path? Having to actually delete the files over an above this is nothing short of stupid, I love the general operational workings of ROON although on the previous build when I clicked over 100k files it took a big nose dive speed wise for any function but found this to be mostly restored with version 936 strange.
I have in the past and still now occasionally had the stuttering problem that just totally destroys the listening experience and ROON was sympathetic but offered no explanation as to a cause or a cure and we proved it was something that their side of the system was doing.
Could this be the CPU being maxed out causing clipping and the dropouts of the signal? I am currently looking at building a Nucleus replacement as 32Gb of Ramm and a 5TB drive inside the unit didn't entirely fix the problem unfortunately.

Thank you for this Gem of information it was well worth the small amount of time taken to delete the files with a very pleasant end result just need to retune the sub stacks now to compensate.

Hi Loco

Thanks for reporting back.
But I wonder if we are talking about the same thing.
I said delete the filters in the dsp section of each endpoint and you are talking about deleting files...
Did you delete filters or files?
Maybe your autotext/spell checker "modified" your "filters" to "files" ???

 

[christoph]

Christoph,
the transition from 935 to 936 went faultlessly unlike some previous sideways, backwards, upgrades took about 2 minutes then a reboot and up and running. With regards to the sound quality in comparison with 935 or earlier nothing jumped out at me as a big change SQ wise so I would have to say business as usual in that department unfortunately. But functionally the system runs much faster than the previous builds that was beginning to worry me as it was becoming next to unusable locking up and so slow once I clicked over the 100k files size.

It was interesting that when I bought the Nucleus as oppose to the + version I was told they were the same just one would handle a larger library and more zones at twice the cost almost, but I wonder in what universe an i3 is the go to processor I would have thought i5 or i7 would be the go at least? Obviously not, limits the future sales/upgrades option I suppose get you hooked and bleed you dry. It is a pity I love the functionality of the ROON system its UI is hard to go past just wish they had a more SQ focus on their product engineering for those who can actually appreciate it.

Thanks for your feedback!
You do know that you can build your own "nucleus plus" with a modestly priced intel NUC and the roon ROCK operating system for a fraction of the nucleus pkus price?

 

[Loco57]

Hi Loco

Thanks for reporting back.
But I wonder if we are talking about the same thing.
I said delete the filters in the dsp section of each endpoint and you are talking about deleting files...
Did you delete filters or files?
Maybe your autotext/spell checker "modified" your "filters" to "files" ???

Morning Christoph, yes I did mean the Filters and on my system to my ears especially after around an 8 hour session yesterday via my Stax SR-L700 Mk2 headphones with ED-1 inline there is very much a change for the better in the overall sound quality and spatially so thanks again.

 

[Loco57]

Thanks for your feedback!
You do know that you can build your own "nucleus plus" with a modestly priced intel NUC and the roon ROCK operating system for a fraction of the nucleus pkus price?

Yep, two of my Sons have there own IT businesses and my younger Son is my regular listening buddy and the one who is actually all over this technical stuff so that's why we will be building a custom end game unit then move onto making improvements elsewhere like the stand alone room that's still in the works.

 

[ihmeyers]

I just went in and also deleted the unused filters from the previously disabled dsp… I was playing jazz and with filters gone the whole thing is more free and open and better resolved and now playing a violin concerto and the playing seems just that bit more effortless and fluid and the timbre and tone of the violin has moved more towards the real. You are a gem Christoph… the horns and I both say thank you

I'm sorry I am late to the game. Thanks very much Christoph and everyone else that has added to this thread.

I have deleted the Filters and IMO it makes the sound much more dynamic. Should I delete

Headroom Management
Sample Rate Conversion

neither of which I use. I don't see how to delete those two.

Thanks!

 

[ihmeyers]

I'm sorry I am late to the game. Thanks very much Christoph and everyone else that has added to this thread.

I have deleted the Filters and IMO it makes the sound much more dynamic. Should I delete

Headroom Management
Sample Rate Conversion

neither of which I use. I don't see how to delete those two.

Thanks!

I'm still at build 913. I am awaiting advice from the collective braintrust on this thread before I update anything. I asked Lucas D what he thought but he wasn't sure if the newer builds are any better.

 

[christoph]

I'm sorry I am late to the game. Thanks very much Christoph and everyone else that has added to this thread.

I have deleted the Filters and IMO it makes the sound much more dynamic. Should I delete

Headroom Management
Sample Rate Conversion

neither of which I use. I don't see how to delete those two.

Thanks!

You're very welcome and thanks for reporting back.
Headroom Management and Sample Rate Conversion can not be deleted.

But I also switched off both "Background audio analysis speed" and "On-demand audio analysis speed"

 

[christoph]

And yet another roon version 943
If they continue at this rate, 1.9 is inevitable months (years?) before they are ready to release something meaningful just because they run out of numbers for their daily updates

 

[christoph]

I'm still at build 913. I am awaiting advice from the collective braintrust on this thread before I update anything. I asked Lucas D what he thought but he wasn't sure if the newer builds are any better.

Talk to LD and let him make you immune to the sonic surprises of all the roon updates by fixing you up with Sqeezelite as output engine for roon

 

[PYP]

You're very welcome and thanks for reporting back.
Headroom Management and Sample Rate Conversion can not be deleted.

But I also switched off both "Background audio analysis speed" and "On-demand audio analysis speed"

Thanks for the tip. The latest build - 943 - seems improved soudwise. What do you think?

 

[Kingsrule]

Agree that 943 sounds better...