Speaker decoupling options

[montesquieu]

No, I have not, I tried enough to know they all change the sound, so this is where I am at, I can spend money elsewhere, then keep "trying" the newest thing for a few thousand dollars, Done with chasing, oh this will make it better. My experience is that is a crapshoot because, in the end, it is if you like the impact, and the sound of your system, much like trying mods, by throwing better parts in, get the unit back and your turn it on and hope its sounds better, well you could have purchased another brand and had the same thing, so guy working out of his home or small business knows more than say Nelson Pass, on how to build a preamp, amp, etc. Parts used and how they are used give the sonics of that given unit.
And other of course, even the big corporate luxury brands. Yes, they come back sounding different, and yes, you might like that sound. So then the money is well spent if you don't then you are back to square one and your modded unit has lost its true value.

Let me get the logic:

Because you tried some different kit, then this other kit (which you admit you have never heard) must be a waste of money?

You are done with chasing because you have concluded 'it's a crapshoot' therefore something you've never heard must be rubbish?

Small guys are wasting their time because they all think they are better than Nelson Pass. But the big corporates are a waste of time because what they sell drops in value after purchase?

You must be great fun at parties.

 

[Cellcbern]

No, I have not, I tried enough to know they all change the sound, so this is where I am at, I can spend money elsewhere, then keep "trying" the newest thing for a few thousand dollars, Done with chasing, oh this will make it better. My experience is that is a crapshoot because, in the end, it is if you like the impact, and the sound of your system, much like trying mods, by throwing better parts in, get the unit back and your turn it on and hope its sounds better, well you could have purchased another brand and had the same thing, so guy working out of his home or small business knows more than say Nelson Pass, on how to build a preamp, amp, etc. Parts used and how they are used give the sonics of that given unit.
And other of course, even the big corporate luxury brands. Yes, they come back sounding different, and yes, you might like that sound. So then the money is well spent if you don't then you are back to square one and your modded unit has lost its true value.

Sounds like you've had bad experiences with mods and tweaks. I guess I've been fortunate - my experiences have been mostly positive. I've found tweaks easy to exploit. They all change the sound but it is far from a crap shoot since you can hear the impact and only keep the ones that make a positive and synergistic change. When I replaced my speaker spikes with the Isoacoustics Gaia feet for example I listened critically for a week to make sure I wanted to keep them, and also had several audiophile friends listen with me. All of us heard only improvements - no downside. I've probably kept only 20% of what I've tried, but have been able to sell what I didn't keep at sites like Audiogon, US Audiomart, and ebay - sometimes at a loss, sometimes breakeven, and occasionally for a little more than I paid.

My experience with mods has also been overwhelmingly positive, thanks in part to finding a superb tech in Bill Thalman at Music Technology, Inc. in Springfield, VA, whose work is OEM quality. There are mod houses like Modwright with a level of expertise that saw them evolve into manufacturers. Every Modwright modified Sony and Marantz player I've owned has been near state-of-the-art and a "giant killer" value. With my Pathos TT mods I started by asking the folks at Pathos what upgrades they would recommend (e.g., where in the amp they had experimented with parts that were too expensive to use in the production model) and they suggested specific changes and gave advice during both rounds of my amp modifications. If for example I wanted to modify a Nelson Pass amp I would start the same way.

 

[rbbert]

Long ago, there was a cogent listening and engineering thread on this very topic

Understanding Coupling/Decoupling - with particular reference to loudspeakers

Introduction This is a question that I get asked a lot – what do I have to do to properly stabilize a pair of loudspeakers? Floor-standing speakers are sometimes supplied with feet and spikes already installed, or they have inserts to allow spikes to be screwed into the cabinet. How effective...

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[Phillyb]

I am fun at parties. I knew I get attacked for stating only my experience, one thing I know is some in this hobby are very thin-skinned, they cannot handle hearing something of someone else's experiences that may put fear into theirs. I never said they were rubbish, another extreme thought in your own head, I just said that all will change the sound and if you like it you did well, if not well you sell and keep looking. The gentleman above stated he keeps only 20% of his purchases, that was my point also, and I go back to the Mod Squad so I do have a long history of trying things over 40 years, I just said I learned and stop looking for the next great tweak and started to enjoy my system without the worry of another great thing to add to my system to change the sound. If anyone does enjoy that, then that is a good thing for them. For years I felt and took heat from dealers and friends that spikes rob the systems of color, overtones, body, and weight, for clean pristine sound which to me was unlike anything you heard in life, but spikes became the status quo, for years and years. Having said that one pair of speakers I owned did sound better with spikes the rest did not, so If you asked me about spikes I say try them, see if you like them, but I never say they are a must. My gear sits on their own feet in a good rack and amp stand, I've tried many styles of cones under the gear and different types and brands over the years and I come back to the gear sitting on their own feet. Things go back and sound more balanced and right to me. Live and let live. This is a hobby, not a science and it is really like cooking what spices you like in your food may not be what I like in my food. To end your room and its acoustics make such an impact on the final sound, so I spend money there which might be why tweaks don't always impress me. Peace, stay healthy, and enjoy life.

 

[montesquieu]

I knew I get attacked for stating only my experience, one thing I know is some in this hobby are very thin-skinned, they cannot handle hearing something of someone else's experiences that may put fear into theirs.

You aren't stating your experience, you've never heard the Townshend Podiums. You have no idea how they would work even in your own room with your own kit, let alone with other people's kit in other people's rooms.

Live and let live. This is a hobby, not a science and it is really like cooking what spices you like in your food may not be what I like in my food. To end your room and its acoustics make such an impact on the final sound, so I spend money there which might be why tweaks don't always impress me. Peace, stay healthy, and enjoy life.

If you really think this, then going around pooh-poohing others' purchases (in the British phrase, 'pissing on people's chips') when you haven't heard the items concerned and have no intention of bothering to do so might not be the best way to communicate the sentiment.

 

[Cellcbern]

Long ago, there was a cogent listening and engineering thread on this very topic

Understanding Coupling/Decoupling - with particular reference to loudspeakers

Introduction This is a question that I get asked a lot – what do I have to do to properly stabilize a pair of loudspeakers? Floor-standing speakers are sometimes supplied with feet and spikes already installed, or they have inserts to allow spikes to be screwed into the cabinet. How effective...

www.whatsbestforum.com

This language is from the current Genesis Maestro loudspeaker owner's manual:

The Acoustic Platform
The Maestro sits on a suspension system designed to allow the loudspeaker to perform at its optimum. It consists of three elements: neoprene vibration-absorbing de-couplers, a tuned skeletal acrylic
frame, and stainless steel spikes.

The system holds the loudspeaker firmly, and yet isolates it from the floor on which it sits. Like the suspension of a skyscraper in Tokyo, the suspension allows the speaker to sway at frequencies that do not affect the sound, and yet remain absolutely rigid at higher frequencies.

Sounds similar to descriptions of how other devices that decouple speakers from the floor work. Note that the technical description of the RevOpods says they were based on systems used to allow buildings to move during tremors.

 

[montesquieu]

This language is from the current Genesis Maestro loudspeaker owner's manual:

The Acoustic Platform
The Maestro sits on a suspension system designed to allow the loudspeaker to perform at its optimum. It consists of three elements: neoprene vibration-absorbing de-couplers, a tuned skeletal acrylic
frame, and stainless steel spikes.

The system holds the loudspeaker firmly, and yet isolates it from the floor on which it sits. Like the suspension of a skyscraper in Tokyo, the suspension allows the speaker to sway at frequencies that do not affect the sound, and yet remain absolutely rigid at higher frequencies.

Sounds similar to descriptions of how other devices that decouple speakers from the floor work. Note that the technical description of the RevOpods says they were based on systems used to allow buildings to move during tremors.

There are a few youtube videos including by the late Max Townshend himself that got into a bit more of the theory - personally I'm not entirely convinced by the 'seismic' explanation but I do like the resulting effect, in my room with my kit at least.

The 'official' version:

'Independent' view/review:

More of Max - this is my favourite one, complete with Pink Elephant - though I must admit I didn't watch this until after I'd heard a pair and bought my own:

 

[Phillyb]

You aren't stating your experience, you've never heard the Townshend Podiums. You have no idea how they would work even in your own room with your own kit, let alone with other people's kit in other people's rooms.



If you really think this, then going around pooh-poohing others' purchases (in the British phrase, 'pissing on people's chips') when you haven't heard the items concerned and have no intention of bothering to do so might not be the best way to communicate the sentiment.

I may have heard this product due to no one selling it where I live, so that is that. 2nd I was not attacking this one product just my long experience of using tweaks, footers, speaker supports, etc and my conclusion is anything you add under a product or speaker is you will hear the difference as well you would with 4 hard apples under a preamp say, it is different sounding so what? You're trading one sonic signature for another, if you like it, again I SAY THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS so who poohing anyone's systems got it, chum. Lastly, I guess you would say it makes the recording sound like they were intended, no you just added a new coloration to change it and none of us know how the master tape sounded, every room, cable, and gear changes the sound. Now looking at this platform I would guess on a wooden floor it might sound better than spikes but on carpeted floors with a good 10lb pad that decouples anyway, and that is why I like my speakers without footers of any type or spikes. Listening to Sinatra and he is in my room, and you don't get better than that feeling my system is going what I paid for. Hope yours is too.

That's why it's a hobby not true to the master tape, It's the spices you like, but to say any tweak is needed is just not true. I enjoy my system more without any tweaks I have tried over 30 years so I guess that bugs you because you spent good money on the newest tweak for your speakers, maybe when they hit the market used I'll spring for them because they will hit the market used as all tweaks do in the end because soon another hot tweak will supplant the flotation type of platform and that is the real world of tweaks. The next best is just around the marketing corner.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

I have the Townshend podiums under my QLN Sonora’s and they work great. Real impressive . I have isoacoustics Giai under my CeLest towers and they work well too. Not as well as the TS Podiums.

 

[rbbert]

This language is from the current Genesis Maestro loudspeaker owner's manual:

The Acoustic Platform
The Maestro sits on a suspension system designed to allow the loudspeaker to perform at its optimum. It consists of three elements: neoprene vibration-absorbing de-couplers, a tuned skeletal acrylic
frame, and stainless steel spikes.

The system holds the loudspeaker firmly, and yet isolates it from the floor on which it sits. Like the suspension of a skyscraper in Tokyo, the suspension allows the speaker to sway at frequencies that do not affect the sound, and yet remain absolutely rigid at higher frequencies.

Sounds similar to descriptions of how other devices that decouple speakers from the floor work. Note that the technical description of the RevOpods says they were based on systems used to allow buildings to move during tremors.

I'm pretty sure the WBF thread preceded the printing of the owner's manual. Gary probably didn't want to see his work go to waste, so to speak. His main point was that decoupling is preferable to coupling, with the secondary consideration of how best to achieve that. As noted in this thread, that secondary consideration is probably best determined through listening.