Speaker upgrade

Newtoncr

New Member
Aug 11, 2020
12
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#1
My system comprises of
Kef blades , pair of jl audio f113 v2 subs, jl audio cr-1 , ayre Mx-r twenty , ayre kx-r twenty, sme 30/2 with Lyra Etna lambda sl catridge , van den hul the grail se phono stage, wolf Alfa 3 sx streamer , t+a sd 3100 hv dac, cardas clear interconnects , cardas clear beyond power cords , cardas clear revelation speaker cables, niagra 5000.
I am looking for a pair of full range speakers to replace my kef blades.
I love my blades , expecting a little more dynamics .
Looking for sealed full range speakers , to play with my jl audio subs.
My short list are magico m3 and yg Acoustics sonja 2.3.
That’s the price range I am looking at .
I listen to vocal music , country , jazz, pop and rock .
Thanks everyone In advance .
Newton
 
Jan 23, 2011
4,784
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Amsterdam holland
#2
Correctly spoken full range speakers dont need subs .
If they needed subs they cant be called Full range officially .
But as there is no CE standard in high end audio speaker design ,manufacturers can call them whatever they want..
Just a technical side note ;)
 
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Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
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#3
Welcome to WBF, Newton!

I like the Sonja 2.3! But I don't know anything about your amplifier, so whether your amplifier can drive those speakers with authority is a big threshold question.
 
Mar 14, 2019
32
14
15
France
#4
Can you elaborate on what you would like the Blades to do better? That would help guide us a bit as there are many choices out there and your two short-listed choices are somewhat different animals. Regards
 

sbnx

Well-Known Member
Mar 28, 2017
278
181
115
#5
I see you are using the JL audio CR-1. I have quite a bit of experience integrating subs with the CR-1. What crossover point are you typically using to integrate the subs. It is not clear why you are wanting a full range speaker simply to chop off the bass with the CR-1.

Note that the YG Sonja crosses over to the woofer(s) at 65Hz. If you like the YG tonality then one idea might be to simply buy the Sonja 2.1 (which is just the head unit) and use the subs below that. As Ron stated the YG's take quite a bit of power before they open up. They are not efficient speakers.

If you are looking for a dynamic sounding speaker in that price range have you considered the Vivid Giya line -- either the G1 or the Spirit. These speakers do dynamics like crazy. But, you either love or hate the way they look.
 

asiufy

Industry Expert/VIP Donor
Jul 8, 2011
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almaaudio.com
#6
We've driven YGs with Ayre monos before, they are quite capable, will not be a problem.

The OP didn't mention the size of his room. If it's on the smaller size, a 2.2 + subs might work, otherwise 2.3 all the way.
 

DonH50

Member Sponsor & WBF Technical Expert
Jun 23, 2010
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#7
For "a little more dynamics" my default answer would be to look at compression drivers (mated to horns). Unfortunately I do not have much experience with recent horns other than a few Klipsch and couple of JBL models (4367, M2).

There are a lot of good reasons to use subwoofers including smoother in-room bass response and lower distortion from the mains but that's a debate for another thread and nobody would change any minds anyway.
 

Elliot G.

Industry Expert
#8
My system comprises of
Kef blades , pair of jl audio f113 v2 subs, jl audio cr-1 , ayre Mx-r twenty , ayre kx-r twenty, sme 30/2 with Lyra Etna lambda sl catridge , van den hul the grail se phono stage, wolf Alfa 3 sx streamer , t+a sd 3100 hv dac, cardas clear interconnects , cardas clear beyond power cords , cardas clear revelation speaker cables, niagra 5000.
I am looking for a pair of full range speakers to replace my kef blades.
I love my blades , expecting a little more dynamics .
Looking for sealed full range speakers , to play with my jl audio subs.
My short list are magico m3 and yg Acoustics sonja 2.3.
That’s the price range I am looking at .
I listen to vocal music , country , jazz, pop and rock .
Thanks everyone In advance .
Newton
I know we are in a pandemic but the Gobel Divin Marquis will do exactly what you want and is the price range you said. I will be happy to show you if you want to come listen. Where are you btw?
 

Newtoncr

New Member
Aug 11, 2020
12
14
3
48
#9
My room is big , 28 ft by 22ft with 20 ft ceilings open on 3 sides by arches to adjoining rooms .
The subwoofer pair is placed , phase and vol adjusted by Barry Oder , the sound doctor. The crossover is at 80hz.
The room is acoustically treated and tuned by asc tube traps . Design by Jordan Goulette and art noxon over a period of 1 1/2 year of adding and rearranging tube traps and treatment .
The vivid are ported speakers , I use my blades with the ports sealed . I want to get sealed speakers to be able to best integrate the subs .
I don’t want to make a lateral move . I listened to horns the most recent being auditorium 23 cinema hommage driven with shindo electronics and It was great but not my taste . A lateral move imo.
I am looking for a speaker which would do everything the blades do even better in a bigger scale . Not color the music .
Pics of my room
Thanks everyone for your recommendations .
I am worried that the Sonja 2.2 may be difficult for me to drive and the m3 May be very clinical .
And the yga crossing over at 60’s make the bass units obselete the way I have set the Jl subs up with masterly craft from the Sounddoctor.
Newton
 

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Skanda

Active Member
May 3, 2020
109
137
43
#10
My room is big , 28 ft by 22ft with 20 ft ceilings open on 3 sides by arches to adjoining rooms .
The subwoofer pair is placed , phase and vol adjusted by Barry Oder , the sound doctor. The crossover is at 80hz.
The room is acoustically treated and tuned by asc tube traps . Design by Jordan Goulette and art noxon over a period of 1 1/2 year of adding and rearranging tube traps and treatment .
The vivid are ported speakers , I use my blades with the ports sealed . I want to get sealed speakers to be able to best integrate the subs .
I don’t want to make a lateral move . I listened to horns the most recent being auditorium 23 cinema hommage driven with shindo electronics and It was great but not my taste . A lateral move imo.
I am looking for a speaker which would do everything the blades do even better in a bigger scale . Not color the music .
Pics of my room
Thanks everyone for your recommendations .
I am worried that the Sonja 2.2 may be difficult for me to drive and the m3 May be very clinical .
And the yga crossing over at 60’s make the bass units obselete the way I have set the Jl subs up with masterly craft from the Sounddoctor.
Newton
the m3 isn't clinical, to my ears, but I haven't heard it with ayre amps. I share your concern that the ayre may not be enough oomph for the sonja
for what it's worth, i think the m2 has even better bass than the m3 - with dual subs I think it might have enough output for your room
 

Newtoncr

New Member
Aug 11, 2020
12
14
3
48
#11
the m3 isn't clinical, to my ears, but I haven't heard it with ayre amps. I share your concern that the ayre may not be enough oomph for the sonja
for what it's worth, i think the m2 has even better bass than the m3 - with dual subs I think it might have enough output for your room
the m3 isn't clinical, to my ears, but I haven't heard it with ayre amps. I share your concern that the ayre may not be enough oomph for the sonja
for what it's worth, i think the m2 has even better bass than the m3 - with dual subs I think it might have enough output for your room
What are the crossover points for the magico m2 and m3 . Wondering how I would need to set up the crossover freq in the cr-1
 

Skanda

Active Member
May 3, 2020
109
137
43
#12
What are the crossover points for the magico m2 and m3 . Wondering how I would need to set up the crossover freq in the cr-1
unfortunately, i don't remember. i know it was in something i read so it's out there.

oh! not to overwhelm you with choices but the alsyvox is in your budget (at least the little one is with external crossover), can play real big, and the ayre will drive it just fine as they are super efficient.

i like my current magicos but i preferred the alysvox to the m2 - very dynamic, ethereal, gorgeous sound. i'm just not sure which model would be a good fit for your room. the larger ones get very pricey. i personally was hesitant about them given they are a lesser known brand and resale etc but i have heard nothing but good things about them from longer term owners and on a personal level i can confirm that the sound is just spectacular. i'm happy to talk in more detail but don't want to derail the thread or turn this into a magico vs. kef. vs. yg. vs. alsyvox thread (we already have one of those lol) - so feel free to pm me
 
Likes: Duke LeJeune

Duke LeJeune

[Industry Expert]/Member Sponsor
Jul 22, 2013
584
662
340
Princeton, Texas
#13
My room is big , 28 ft by 22ft with 20 ft ceilings open on 3 sides by arches to adjoining rooms .
What a magnificent space! Thank you for posting those photos.

I see now why you need a LOT of low-frequency capability. Not only is that a very large space, but if it's open into adjoining rooms, then in the bass region your speaker system is working to fill ALL of that adjoining airspace as well.

I use my blades with the ports sealed . I want to get sealed speakers to be able to best integrate the subs.
Are you using the CR-1 to roll off the bottom end of your sealed Blades? Or are the Blades getting a full-range signal? I'm guessing the latter, since you are considering other full-range speakers.

I listened to horns the most recent being auditorium 23 cinema hommage driven with shindo electronics and It was great but not my taste...

I am looking for a speaker which would do everything the blades do even better in a bigger scale . Not color the music .
I have not heard the Auditorium 23 Cinema Homage, but imo there are other horn geometries which are more likely to do everything you are looking for (everything the blades do, and some things better, and on a bigger scale, while not coloring the music).

In your photos it looks to me like you have some large room treatment devices positioned sort of in a semi-circle around each Blade, presumably to address the off-to-the-side and around-back energy coming from the Blades. A loudspeaker system with well-controlled directivity could avoid sending significant energy in those directions to begin with, and reduce or possibly even eliminate the need for as much acoustic treatment, and thereby give you back a bit more of your magnificent room. Avantgarde, Odeon, Diesis, and Cessaro come to mind.
 
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Newtoncr

New Member
Aug 11, 2020
12
14
3
48
#14
unfortunately, i don't remember. i know it was in something i read so it's out there.

oh! not to overwhelm you with choices but the alsyvox is in your budget (at least the little one is with external crossover), can play real big, and the ayre will drive it just fine as they are super efficient.

i like my current magicos but i preferred the alysvox to the m2 - very dynamic, ethereal, gorgeous sound. i'm just not sure which model would be a good fit for your room. the larger ones get very pricey. i personally was hesitant about them given they are a lesser known brand and resale etc but i have heard nothing but good things about them from longer term owners and on a personal level i can confirm that the sound is just spectacular. i'm happy to talk in more detail but don't want to derail the thread or turn this into a magico vs. kef. vs. yg. vs. alsyvox thread (we already have one of those lol) - so feel free to pm me
I am also very hesitant to buy a brand like alsyvox . I am more comfortable with brands like magico and yg. Which magico do you own .
I am not able to find the crossover points for the magico so if you can get me that information I would appreciate that . Thanks
Newton
 

Newtoncr

New Member
Aug 11, 2020
12
14
3
48
#15
What a magnificent space! Thank you for posting those photos.

I see now why you need a LOT of low-frequency capability. Not only is that a very large space, but if it's open into adjoining rooms, then in the bass region your speaker system is working to fill ALL of that adjoining airspace as well.



Are you using the CR-1 to roll off the bottom end of your sealed Blades? Or are the Blades getting a full-range signal? I'm guessing the latter, since you are considering other full-range speakers.



I have not heard the Auditorium 23 Cinema Homage, but imo there are other horn geometries which are more likely to do everything you are looking for (everything the blades do, and some things better, and on a bigger scale, while not coloring the music).

In your photos it looks to me like you have some large room treatment devices positioned sort of in a semi-circle around each Blade, presumably to address the off-to-the-side and around-back energy coming from the Blades. A loudspeaker system with well-controlled directivity could avoid sending significant energy in those directions to begin with, and reduce or possibly even eliminate the need for as much acoustic treatment, and thereby give you back a bit more of your magnificent room. Avantgarde, Odeon, Diesis, and Cessaro come to mind.
The speakers you are recommending are all horn speakers. I haven’t heard any of the above . I am planning on hearing them before I decide . I know that have great dynamics micro and macro . But do they have the sound stage and focus that dynamic speakers offer . Planar speakers I have listened to dont.
Thank you for your compliments on the room . And your recommendations
 
Likes: Duke LeJeune

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
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Greater Boston
#16
Correctly spoken full range speakers dont need subs .
If they needed subs they cant be called Full range officially .
But as there is no CE standard in high end audio speaker design ,manufacturers can call them whatever they want..
Just a technical side note ;)
That naming convention in the high end greatly annoys me too. Not that I put blame on the OP, everybody does it. There are very few full range speakers, and the ones that are, often come with their own bass towers -- no wonder that they don't need subs then.
 

Duke LeJeune

[Industry Expert]/Member Sponsor
Jul 22, 2013
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Princeton, Texas
#17
But do they have the sound stage and focus that dynamic speakers offer.
That's a very good question. Must admit that I've never heard the Odeons or the Diesis speakers, though their designs look well thought-out to me. I only heard Cessaros from well off-center. I've hear Avantgarde Duos and Trios image very precisely, including great soundstage depth, but the sweet spot was small.

How important is a wide sweet spot?

Your question brings to mind another horn system that I forgot about: The GedLee Summa. It uses a sealed box but does not go deep enough to be considered "full range". In other words, it is specifically designed to be used with subs, but its 15" midwoofer does not need a protective highpass filter.

I'm being imprecise to call the Summa a "horn" system. It uses a type of horn which Earl calls a "waveguide", whose primary function is low coloration radiation pattern control rather than acoustic amplification.

The Summas disappear as the apparent sound source. They image extremely well and will give you a very wide sweet spot when set up as recommended. Their designer Earl Geddes is "retired" but according to his website still makes Summas on a special-order basis. He is located outside of Detroit.

You can read about his loudspeaker design philosophy here. I have no current business connection with Earl but he was my mentor, and much if not most of what I do traces back to him in one way or another. Imo Earl is a rare individual, way out on the tail end of the bell curve.
 
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JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 21, 2010
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#18
Wow your room is Muon sized :D
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
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#19
Hi Newton, what kind of music do you listen to
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
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Beverly Hills, CA
#20
What a great room for audio!
 

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