Speakers for Kondo Ongaku... Please Help

[Uwiik]

Anima can be shouty if not properly set up. I like it better than Diesis though yes Diesis is less shouty, it is much easier to fit in and just play. However if vocals and mids are your focus I will take horns universum which is like an elecrostat. I like Anima and universum but both are very unlike each other

Thanks so much for the more definitive answer. Yes, Vocal especially female Vocal is absolutely the highest priority above anything else for me. Just last night I already considered Alsyvox, I found that instruments and jump factor are much better on good horns compared to Alsyvox but it is the female vocal where the Alsyvox truly shine (purely my opinion a person with permanent severe tinnitus on left ear...LOL). If only my 27 watt Kondo Ongaku can drive Alsyvox properly I would’ve picked Alsyvox and this thread would be dead soon, apparently it can’t because the general consensus said Alsyvox needs min 50 watt to shine..

I will give Universum a closer hard look/listen, out of all the horns I have listened extensively on my limited YouTube audition (AC Symphonia, VOX Olympian, AA Duo Mezzo XD, Anima, All Diesis, Audio Tekne, WVL, PAP, Classic) only Living Voice Vox Olympian hit my taste on female vocal, obviously I cannot afford it unless I divorce my wife but I love her... tough choice....

I might ignore the aesthetics which doesn’t suit my personal taste if the Universum do really shine on vocal.

 

[Syntax]

I have bought Kondo Ongaku with Kondo G70 pre amp and Kondo flagship cable everywhere. Now comes the BIG CONFUSING decision....The speakers!!!

Cessaro Horn Acoustics (Wagner Speaker)

 

[Uwiik]

Have you considered Devore?

I did and in fact there is somebody just 4 hours away from me selling his 0/96 for a good price but I want something different downstairs....all my life I only know box speakers with one terrible exception with Martin Logan stats which only lasted for 6 days and it wasn’t a demo, I paid in full and lost about 60% of what I paid. Back then I swore to myself to not touch stats ever again, apparently things has changed now and that was back in 2001 I think.

 

[Uwiik]

I think the Universum looks fantastic and much much better than the Anima.
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DANG @howiebrou !!!!! That thing creeped me out to the max!!! I have tough Chinese childhood you know!! LOL!!

 

[tima]

I think the Universum looks fantastic and much much better than the Anima.
...

I'm inclined to agree although I prefer the Universum in one of their nice matte colors.

 

[morricab]

Nice coverage of horns universum and tune anima by Brad (@morricab ).

A Munich 2016 Show Report Part 1: My Top 5 Systems at the Munich High-End Show, Plus My “Affordable” Picks - Positive Feedback

As usual for the Munich show, the numbers of rooms that I can call truly excellent were quite limited. Now, one can debate as to whether this was due to "show conditions"; poor rooms with thin walls, poor electrical power (I have witnessed this first hand many years ago), poor choice in matching...

positive-feedback.com

edit: Missed this on first read because I was focusing on horn speakers: Brad also noted the Wilson Alexia paired with Nagra electronics was his best sounding dynamic speaker at the Munich show.

Interestingly, the next year with the same room and electronics but a change to the Wilson Alexx speakers was not nearly as good and was another “also ran” .

 

[morricab]

YouTube binge...LOL, it’s an obsession, not only binge, can’t even remember how many times I fell asleep while watching sound samples of YouTube, I think I got pretty good at it already.

You hit the nail on my head! I completely forgot about the hORNS Universum just because of the shape! I got put off by the aesthetics early although many actually loves the shape of Universum. However, lately I just can’t help myself but thinking about tombstones when looking at pictures of the Anima, especially when it’s purple against red/purple background like how it’s showed on many YT Vids, somehow although totally unrelated, damn thing reminded me of the old school Chinese vampire horror movie I watched a lot when I was a little kid and it dang creeping me out. If I do get the Anima, it’s gotta be in black with veneer horns, definitely not a hint of purple or red, that would really creep me out, even then I am not sure if I can completely rid of my Chinese vampire self induced paranoia.

Thanks so much for the reminder for Universum, it is definitely back on my top list and will report back to you after another YouTube binge comparing Diesis-Anima-Universum!! Cheers!!

The Diesis speakers were one of my favorites in the last two Munich shows (they were at the side show at the Marriott)!

 

[tima]

Interestingly, the next year with the same room and electronics but a change to the Wilson Alexx speakers was not nearly as good and was another “also ran” .

I've heard similar comments. 2016 - that would be v1 for both Alexia and Alexx. I've neither with Nagra.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Diesis, Universum or Anima, all would be on my very short list of horns to consider along with some vintage horns and the Pureaudioproject horns that I have gone with. The WVL son would also be a speaker I’d love to hear also.

Having spent 100s of hours with the Animas they are a speaker that is very lovely in real life and if they suit you they are a speaker that you could take to the very end with you. I’d love to hear the Universums to get that data point as well. The Diesis look enticing also and the quality seems fantastic.

But I probably wouldn’t commit to anything more expensive than the WVL Sons myself without actually having a considerable personal trial simply because horns are so characteristically divergent and it comes down to the nature and characteristics that you then lean towards.

Also living with horns for some time shapes your listening more than any speaker I’ve experienced so living with something and discovering what type of horn lover you are is to me a good investment. Me, I love me a two way OB with a wide bander horn. Hope you find your version of pure horn excitement and connection. Enjoy the journey.

 

[Uwiik]

Diesis, Universum or Anima, all would be on my very short list of horns to consider along with some vintage horns and the Pureaudioproject horns that I have gone with. The WVL son would also be a speaker I’d love to hear also.

Having spent 100s of hours with the Animas they are a speaker that is very lovely in real life and if they suit you they are a speaker that you could take to the very end with you. I’d love to hear the Universums to get that data point as well. The Diesis look enticing also and the quality seems fantastic.

But I probably wouldn’t commit to anything more expensive than the WVL Sons myself without actually having a considerable personal trial simply because horns are so characteristically divergent and it comes down to the nature and characteristics that you then lean towards.

Also living with horns for some time shapes your listening more than any speaker I’ve experienced so living with something and discovering what type of horn lover you are is to me a good investment. Me, I love me a two way OB with a wide bander horn. Hope you find your version of pure horn excitement and connection. Enjoy the journey.

I was supposed to audition WVL Son this week, but I have to be away again to take care of my ailing father, he is showing great progress but I need to keep an close watch on him. Like I said above, if WVL Son turned out to be fantastic, I am prepared to just buy it first as bridging speakers until international travel is back to normal hopefully soon, unless something soon along the way really turn me head over hell sight unseen/unheard, TBH Anima almost got me there if not for my self induced Chinese vampire paranoia (I am serious). For now LV Vox Olympian is definitely there, on all the various YT vids the vocal stays consistent, holographic and haunting, I love it, that would be something I would buy sight unseen/unheard if I could afford it without divorcing my wife

BTW: I am enjoying this so much. I was at the point of burning out mentally last month after binge shopping my latest Kondo gear right after I ditched my Mcintosh system and raced to finish my Accuphase A-250/C3900/Ktema/kuzma XL DC system upstairs. I was buying gears like a wild dog let out of a cage after a long 17 years hiatus from home audio scene, but thanks to a dear friend who reminded me, now I can take it easy and am enjoying the journey very much. My wife is confused but very happy, I browsed a lot but very rarely press “buy it now” button these past few weeks....Thanks for reminding again to enjoy the journey, it’s not a race. This hobby can be scary if you are not prepared financially and equally important, mentally.

 

[Uwiik]

Seawave Acoustics Plotinus.....hmmmmmm..... need to take a closer look. Vocal seems to be out of this world, price is high at rrp US$130.000. Sensitivity seems a bit low though, not sure if 27 watt would work.

 

[the sound of Tao]

A good mate taught me similarly that it isn’t just what excites you but it is also about what makes you happy through time. For me that is connection with purpose and meaning and that for me fundamentally is in the music.

Few things change you more though than engaging in the horn journey when it calls because it is also about us unfolding with it... everything else has fallen back from the anxious need to change and has become in ways more enjoyably relaxed and the more simple matter of musical enjoyment and interest in discovering more music.

Very much lately I just listen to the music. That is where the audio journey of the past nearly 50 years has taken me. A return back to where I started but then much more deeply engaged again and even happier still.

 

[bonzo75]

Nice coverage of horns universum and tune anima by Brad (@morricab ).

A Munich 2016 Show Report Part 1: My Top 5 Systems at the Munich High-End Show, Plus My “Affordable” Picks - Positive Feedback

As usual for the Munich show, the numbers of rooms that I can call truly excellent were quite limited. Now, one can debate as to whether this was due to "show conditions"; poor rooms with thin walls, poor electrical power (I have witnessed this first hand many years ago), poor choice in matching...

positive-feedback.com

edit: Missed this on first read because I was focusing on horn speakers: Brad also noted the Wilson Alexia paired with Nagra electronics was his best sounding dynamic speaker at the Munich show.

2016 universum in Munich, when Brad wrote that article was extremely good sounding and attracted Christoph, me, Brad, and another apogee scintilla owner not on the forum. That was the first time I liked that speaker and since then have been listening regularly to it over the last 4 years.

hORNS Universum MkIII – Zero Distortion

zero-distortion.org

Christoph owns, byrdparis bought on my reco and is happy. His local friend owns the trios so he gets to hear both.

Lot of videos on this thread. https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/horns-universum-videos.31213/

In commercial horns people should listen to this, Anima, and trio with bass horns then decide. All are very different to each other. I like all three. If one gets the designer or Burt from Netherlands to make a bass horn for this, it will be better than trios

 

[Uwiik]

93db 4 ohm, doesn’t look promising for 27 watt SET. Anyone?

 

[tima]

In commercial horns people should listen to this, Anima, and trio with bass horns then decide. All are very different to each other. I like all three. If one gets the designer or Burt from Netherlands to make a bass horn for this, it will be better than trios

I think for the current small manufacturer horn market truly to proliferate and succeed, they need to come to America, specifically the US. The PAP Horn business model or something similar with access for east midwest and western markets - not a solo East Coast or Canadian representative - is what might do it. Rhapsody is trying, but one dealer cannot carry every line with potential. It's easy to find comparisons and reviews of box speakers, but 'horns' is a not a speaker but a technology with commonalites - as you say each horn speaker sounds different. The huge American marketplace must gain better awareness - berating boxes and forum chit-chat is not enough. Horn makers need to come to the US and compete.

 

[Zero000]

Diesis - too much money for the performance on offer, but they are very nicely made. I heard them with an Ongaku at Munich but they were better with the other amp there.

Animas will work only with quite specific genres but when working well they are good. With the wrong amps and material they can sound dreadful. 211 based amps are generally quite dynamic and lively but can be a bit brash in the top end. Not sure that'd be a great match with Anima. Good with Aries Cerat at Munich 2011. Best I have ever heard them sound.

Universum will work with a broader material range than Anima I think. Good speakers these days, though I didn't like the first version at all. Have heard them with 211 amps and they were good.

For horns $35K Duo Mezzo XD is what I'd go for. IMHO they are better than all the above even though all the above are good. They have been in the game for a long time and it shows.

 

[Rhapsody]

Diesis - too much money for the performance on offer, but they are very nicely made. I heard them with an Ongaku at Munich but they were better with the other amp there.

Animas will work only with quite specific genres but when working well they are good. With the wrong amps and material they can sound dreadful. 211 based amps are generally quite dynamic and lively but can be a bit brash in the top end. Not sure that'd be a great match with Anima. Good with Aries Cerat at Munich 2011. Best I have ever heard them sound.

Universum will work with a broader material range than Anima I think. Good speakers these days, though I didn't like the first version at all. Have heard them with 211 amps and they were good.

For horns $35K Duo Mezzo XD is what I'd go for. IMHO they are better than all the above even though all the above are good. They have been in the game for a long time and it shows.

I have a mint pair of Duo Mezzo XD that I just took in on trade, would love to sell them Beautiful speakers.

 

[Rhapsody]

"Rhapsody is trying, but one dealer cannot carry every line with potential."

In the next 3 months we will have five locations in the US with Diesis offerings available for demonstration. We are not trying to compete with other horn systems.

We offer several different types of speakers for different types of rooms and customers. We already are being quite successful in our journey and expanding rapidly, although our market is not the WBF horn comparison market. You would be surprised at the lurkers on WBF that call and we engage with. These customers are very important to us, thus our participation on WBF.

IMHO, the US market is not large enough of a horn market to have any dealer carry multiple horn systems for comparisons It never has been this type of market and again, just imho never will.

In the US horns will always be a boutique type product with different brands each being offered by different dealers.

 

[Rhapsody]

Diesis - too much money for the performance on offer, but they are very nicely made. I heard them with an Ongaku at Munich but they were better with the other amp there.

The room was a giant sized room at the Marriott. We used the Diesis 150 Watt SS/tube pre hybrid integrated that worked better in such a large space that the Ongaku.

In a smaller room the ONgaku has a certain magic, especially with the right tubes on the Diesis that some people prefer. Of course not the posters here and that's fine but there are a lot of Diesis users around the globe that love their Diesis speakers.

 

[Uwiik]

Diesis - too much money for the performance on offer, but they are very nicely made. I heard them with an Ongaku at Munich but they were better with the other amp there

Animas will work only with quite specific genres but when working well they are good. With the wrong amps and material they can sound dreadful. 211 based amps are generally quite dynamic and lively but can be a bit brash in the top end. Not sure that'd be a great match with Anima. Good with Aries Cerat at Munich 2011. Best I have ever heard them sound.

Universum will work with a broader material range than Anima I think. Good speakers these days, though I didn't like the first version at all. Have heard them with 211 amps and they were good.

For horns $35K Duo Mezzo XD is what I'd go for. IMHO they are better than all the above even though all the above are good. They have been in the game for a long time and it shows.

very helpful analysis! Much appreciated! I was just done listening to as many Universum video I could find, I think Anima have a more composed midrange and I still can’t get past the look of Universum, although many loves it but it’s just not my cup of tea. Having said that, now I am confused because I can’t tell which one is better between Anima Vs Universum both sounded a bit nasal and “horny” on YouTube and I am sure both cannot sound that bad on vocals in real life. Your analysis in the 211 vs. Anima is very appreciated, I will take that into consideration and your opinion is fully warranted. As I said above, I think Anima have more shouty tendency than Diesis and that might be a problem with my 211 and all silver Kondo’s architecture, in my case Diesis seems to be the most logical choice as Diesis often touted with Kondo amp, must be certain synergy happening between Diesis and Kondo. It’s funny though that I never heard a Duo Mezzo XD YouTube video that I liked, but off course it’s YouTube SQ, maybe I should revisit AA Duo Mezzo XD and give it a long hard listen? I can audition the Uno XD at local dealership with VTL gear or bring my own.