Speakers for Kondo Ongaku... Please Help

[Uwiik]

Heh heh! Yes, the standard "Roma" is much less than Roma Triode, and will still deliver everything your Kondo gear can serve up. I heard these in NYC a couple years back and was completely gobsmacked... and the speakers were not hooked up to the Kondo gear. It was just a social visit and after a little time I asked "what the hell am I listening to—I've not heard anything quite like this before?"

Where are you located? Are you in USA? If so, by summertime I will have Diesis Roma for audition as the new Rhapsody Listening Room--Portland. There will be RLRs also in Chicago, Dallas, Miami, and of course NYC and on Long Island. So the ability to hear some Diesis will be much better by summertime.

But regarding the Roma Triode... if that isn't some audio porn of the highest caliber, OMG!

LOL!! Now Diesis website is constantly open on my iPhone....I was thinking about Caput Mundi now or Roma (non triode) if I can convince my wife to postpone the extension of the house...LOL!! You really caught my attention with the Diesis solely due to the fact that the brand seems to favor Kondo amplification

No, unfortunately (or fortunately) I am not from the US, would love to visit and hear one in the US but I haven’t been to the States since the Rona hits. My last visit to the US was January 2020. If the travel restrictions eases down (no mandatory quarantines) I might just go to visit my second home in Vancouver this summer, that would be a very pleasant drive to Portland. Otherwise, I live in Indonesia, so if I buy the speaker it’s gotta be sight unseen based of faith alone. I do however, understand that as long as specifications between speakers and amp match properly and other peeps have tried the combination before, buying high end speakers is not so much of a gamble if you have the means to tune it (cable, spike, placement, acoustic, etc).

When I first heard my loaner Canterbury SE paired up with my Kondo in my room I almost wanted to cry spending that much money on the Kondo and getting this harsh, thin, brash, ear bleeding metallic sound. Placement, jumper, cable, spikes and platform tuning changed everything 180 degree to what now I will describe as highly musical and able to fill the room with 4d imaging nicely. Tuning my loaner Canterbury really opened a window of knowledge and wonders to my brain, at first I was skeptical about Kondo cables all silver approach to the already all silver Ongaku, thinking that it will sound OMG Bright! So I mixed some copper from Acrolink’s flagship and Transparent Ref XL, that copper in the mix resulted in ear bleeding sound, my father in law’s $20.000 Manley based system with one tube dead will easily beat that $150.000++ wrongly setup Kondo and Tannoy system. I started to scramble and start calling wildly to borrow as many flagships copper cables as I can to tame down the silver and off course I managed to get a lot of copper based loaners, that only make things worse with my flawed theory that silver is the root cause of my overly harsh tonal problem. Magic started to show after I heed to the Kondo dealer’s advice and switch all cables incl PC to all Kondo’s all silver flagships. All the tonality problems instantly disappeared even with fresh from sealed box Kondo cables. Further tuning on placement, angle, footer, tilt, closing/opening baffles, etc added to the imaging, staging and midbass. If only the Tannoy is not badly underpowered with 27W.

 

[Uwiik]

I have not heard the big WvL speakers but was impressed with the discontinued 'Black and White' when I heard it and with low power amp as well.

Ralph @Atmasphere uses the Classic Audio speakers, perhaps pm him?

I will audition the WVL Son and Berlin next week from my most favorite dealer, also the Classic Audio T-3.4 from another dealer I just get to know yesterday. The Classic Audio dealer offered me to bring in the T-1.5 to Indonesia from his existing stock in the UK, but I don’t wanna say yes yet, although he said no commitment I am not the kind of person that would feel good if I put the dealer I just knew through the burden of importing for my audition and I ended up buying something else not from him entirely.

WVL Son seems to be a spectacular speakers based on the non existence of negative comments about it. If the Son works for me then I might be tempted to just order in its bigger brother London or buy the flagship Berlin he has on stock. I doubt Berlin will work though but will give it a try.

Although there are many excellent options for horn speakers mentioned here, if I can help it I prefer to get something I can audition first. Right now I can audition the following speakers locally:
- Classic Audio T-3.4
- Avantgarde Uno Mezzo
- WVL Berlin and Son (Field Coil not Horn)
Aside from the above speakers, Diesis Roma and Caput Mundi along with Volti Vittora and Rival SE are high on my list for the “buying blind/deaf” category of the selection (ie. if I have to buy blind/deaf between AA Duo Mezzo XD Vs. Diesis Caput Mundi I will pick the later)

 

[Uwiik]

Shall we welcome Tune Audio Anima to the confusion party? LOL!! looking very good indeed...

 

[Bobvin]

LOL!! Now Diesis website is constantly open on my iPhone....I was thinking about Caput Mundi now or Roma (non triode) if I can convince my wife to postpone the extension of the house...LOL!! You really caught my attention with the Diesis solely due to the fact that the brand seems to favor Kondo amplification

No, unfortunately (or fortunately) I am not from the US, would love to visit and hear one in the US but I haven’t been to the States since the Rona hits. My last visit to the US was January 2020. If the travel restrictions eases down (no mandatory quarantines) I might just go to visit my second home in Vancouver this summer, that would be a very pleasant drive to Portland. Otherwise, I live in Indonesia, so if I buy the speaker it’s gotta be sight unseen based of faith alone. I do however, understand that as long as specifications between speakers and amp match properly and other peeps have tried the combination before, buying high end speakers is not so much of a gamble if you have the means to tune it (cable, spike, placement, acoustic, etc).
...

Vancouver is a beautiful place, I’ve visited many times. My wife worked downtown for a while, commuting up from Seattle where we lived until moving to Portland 7 years back. If restrictions ease and you can visit without the crazy Canadian virus quarantine nonsense, it would be my pleasure to share the Diesis Roma with you. At this time I am expecting to have a pair in-house sometime in June. And you know summer months are the time to come to this area, nice sunny days but very mild temps.

I will warn you, the Roma will come off your phone into your house once you hear them

 

[Uwiik]

I almost do not want to continue this thread due to the potential of doing what you just said! . The moment I realized that Diesis Roma is often paired up with Ongaku I know that it will be difficult to settle with anything less. I have to admit that Tune Audio Anima also recently caught my attention but at this price level I think it is safer to go with known pair to my Kondo gear. In your opinion, what is the main difference in actual real world performance between Roma and Roma Triode? And Caput Mundi too if I may ask for the humble lesser little brother...

 

[Rhapsody]

I almost do not want to continue this thread due to the potential of doing what you just said! . The moment I realized that Diesis Roma is often paired up with Ongaku I know that it will be difficult to settle with anything less. I have to admit that Tune Audio Anima also recently caught my attention but at this price level I think it is safer to go with known pair to my Kondo gear. In your opinion, what is the main difference in actual real world performance between Roma and Roma Triode?

Hi Uwiik,

I will jump in as I work with Bob. I have both Roma Triode and Roma at my place in Manhattan. I've lived with both for the last 2 years. I have driven them with an Ongaku, a 4 watt Kondo 2A3 amp, Kondo Kaguras, as well as 200Watt Pilium SS amps. They sound great with all of the amps.

RT and Roma have the exact same 250lb frame. Sonically if you don't hear them next to each other you would have a difficult time telling one from the other. They both have two each 15" woofers and the super tweeter.

Each driver is upgraded in the RT and crossover components and wiring are upgraded in the RT. It's a matter of higher resolution, a bit more refined overall sound with the RT, BUT the Roma holds it's own sonically vs. the RT.

One item to keep in mind is that with ANY of the Diesis speakers, you can change the large silver resistors in the crossover that allow for a more laid back sound, a neutral sound or a more raw/exciting sound. It take 3 minutes to change each resistor.

Another Bob V. here. I know confusing Bob and I now call each other Bob W (West) and Bob (East) vs Bob V's, which we share as our name/initials.

Any questions please feel free to ask.

 

[Uwiik]

Hi Bob W and Bob,


Sounds very interesting. I am tempted to just get something quick, perform well and inexpensive for the time being while waiting for a chance to audition the Diesis @Rhapsody, for that purpose WVL Son comes to mind, my dealer told me he can slash the price with heavy discount (usually when he said that the discount can be real deep) and although not in the same league as Tune or Diesis, I liked what I heard on Youtube recording of the WVL Son. Should be a good candidate for temporary speakers and its excellent rating means I can keep it for an inexpensive third system for my Bali Villa as I still have some unused leftovers Mcintosh gears.

Some people might disagree but I think Youtube is an excellent source to audition exotic brands if one’s ears are sophisticated enough to catch the nuances/sound signatures of different brands. If you pay close attention, actually each speakers brand/model will sound relatively consistent despite the rest of the gears and different channel/posters. I listened to so many YouTube samples last night, on the higher end of the price spectrum I liked the sound characteristics of the Tune Audio Anima (jump factor, kick, crazy separation), Diesis Aura, Diesis Caput Mundi, and Diesis Roma/Triode (same as Anima but overall more sophisticated sounding, Anima has a slight tendency to shout and all Diesis just doesn’t shout at all). On the inexpensive side of the spectrum I liked PAP Trio 15 and WVL Son. Actually all of the Diesis range I heard on YouTube last night sounded very similar despite the variation of supporting gears and price level, I can only hear difference on microdetails and better separation as I listen to the higher up class of the Diesis, sound signatures are consistent showing that Youtube can be used for relative comparison. Only one thing I have difficulty in judging from YouTube, it’s the vocal. I still have no idea how Diesis’ vocal compared to Tune Audio Anima? I heard horns are not the best candidate for vocal so naturally I want the one that perform the best among the others for vocal as I gotta have vocal on my music. I listen to zero pop/rock, all I listen to is Jazz, classical, female vocal, male vocal, instruments and Chinese old school vocal.

I just been told by my sister (she lives in Vancouver) last night that the mandatory quarantine is not two weeks anymore, now one can pay $2000 to be quarantined and tested for 3 days in a hotel room. Not that I am willing to go through that with my family but it signal that the border should open soon but I doubt that they are dumb enough to open up right on summertime, can’t imagine the flood of human if they do that.

Thanks a lot Bob (ses) for introducing me to Diesis, it’s very high up on my list right now along with Tune Audio Anima! Different price level I know, but worth considering both!

Now, if I can narrow down this topic in the sake of my sanity. I think at this point I can narrow down my selection to Tune Audio Anima Vs Diesis (Caput Mundi or Roma). Could you please enlighten me on why I should choose the more expensive Diesis Vs. Tune Audio Anima which I also like so much?

again many thanks!!

 

[Solypsa]

You are quite fortunate to be able to hear the big WvL and the Classic Audio speakers both of which are not so common at dealers. Hifi scene must be good in your town

 

[Uwiik]

You are quite fortunate to be able to hear the big WvL and the Classic Audio speakers both of which are not so common at dealers. Hifi scene must be good in your town

High end audio scene used to be real crazy here in Jakarta before 2016, one could find almost every brand imaginable. Our current president is really good but his first term was full of mistakes and he ended up destroying so many big businesses in the country by siding too much to SME businesses and largely ignoring/pressuring the corporations, that when everything fell apart and high end dealers started to disappear. Our current economic situation is not so well even before Covid-19, not to mention the destruction from Covid-19. But yeah, there are quite a few unique out of ordinary stuffs available here.

I know some people spending millions of dollars on one system, there is a guy in another city nearby who custom made his entire listening room from custom wood he cut down himself, he paid special attention on the direction of the root and direction of the wind where the tree grew, believe it or not it makes a difference when he flipped his wood panel according to the direction the tree grew to the other way around. I laughed my arse off when I heard the story but upon trying his custom made wood rack with specific compass direction on the leg and was able to hear the not so subtle difference when I turn the leg accordingly to wind direction, I immediately stopped laughing. Word is that he spent close to US$5.000.000 already on his adventures. So yeah Hi Fi scene is full of surprises here.

 

[gian60]

I give you another option,but in Indonesia will be impossible to find or listen.
I had 2 Ongaku in past years plus many other ANJ amp and some friends with Ongaku,Kageki,ecc,ecc

You have a good system with Ktema where you can listen good bass,loud ecc ecc,so need one second system for an intimate listening where you will have goosebumps.

First need to change the tube of G70 and Ongaku if you didnt until now and one special system can be with oneway speaker that has no crossover.
I love Kondo for his very natural,musical and magic sound sometimes,so through a one way speaker without crossover you will listen the magic sound of Kondo.
You will have some limitation to listen loud and deep bass but what you will listen will be goose bumps.
I had Audiotekne 8716 carbon block with supertweeter ALE DEP 1750,sound with Ongaku was more than incredible,my 2 friends with Kageki and Ongaku has Yamamura speaker,one has small room but sound is fantastic.

Other friend has Ongaku with Horning Agalme Statement,you can see in web,price list 46.000 euro in Italy.
Other option can be Voxativ,Pnoe,Aer,
Below Audiotekne with Ale i had,and Yamamura that 2 my friends has

 

[Uwiik]

I give you another option,but in Indonesia will be impossible to find or listen.
I had 2 Ongaku in past years plus many other ANJ amp and some friends with Ongaku,Kageki,ecc,ecc

You have a good system with Ktema where you can listen good bass,loud ecc ecc,so need one second system for an intimate listening where you will have goosebumps.

First need to change the tube of G70 and Ongaku if you didnt until now and one special system can be with oneway speaker that has no crossover.
I love Kondo for his very natural,musical and magic sound sometimes,so through a one way speaker without crossover you will listen the magic sound of Kondo.
You will have some limitation to listen loud and deep bass but what you will listen will be goose bumps.
I had Audiotekne 8716 carbon block with supertweeter ALE DEP 1750,sound with Ongaku was more than incredible,my 2 friends with Kageki and Ongaku has Yamamura speaker,one has small room but sound is fantastic.

Other friend has Ongaku with Horning Agalme Statement,you can see in web,price list 46.000 euro in Italy.
Other option can be Voxativ,Pnoe,Aer,
Below Audiotekne with Ale i had,and Yamamura that 2 my friends has

on the limited YouTube “special” audition, I am impressed by the Audiotekne 8716.. will have a closer look! Looks fun to have, small boutique manufacturers always intrigued me, especially the Japanese with their meticulous approach to everything.

 

[Rhapsody]

Could you please enlighten me on why I should choose the more expensive Diesis Vs. Tune Audio Anima which I also like so much?

Sorry, I can not enlighten anyone, they must do that for themselves. If you like the Tune Audio Anima so much and they are less expensive then why not buy them and enjoy the music? That would be my suggestion.

 

[microstrip]

(...) For the downstairs system I have bought Kondo Ongaku with Kondo G70 pre amp and Kondo flagship cable everywhere. Now comes the BIG CONFUSING decision....The speakers!!! Obviously due to the very expensive nature of the Kondo gears I have to maximize my investment. Meaning the speakers must be a perfect match for the Kondo and able for both to be driven optimally. The room/mancave downstairs is 4.85 X 8.5 meters, speaker can be places against the wall or with distance very flexible space arrangements. (...)

What will be the source you will be using in this system? Did you ever listen to the Kondo KSL DAC in a Kondo system?

 

[marslo]

I give you another option,but in Indonesia will be impossible to find or listen.
I had 2 Ongaku in past years plus many other ANJ amp and some friends with Ongaku,Kageki,ecc,ecc

You have a good system with Ktema where you can listen good bass,loud ecc ecc,so need one second system for an intimate listening where you will have goosebumps.

First need to change the tube of G70 and Ongaku if you didnt until now and one special system can be with oneway speaker that has no crossover.
I love Kondo for his very natural,musical and magic sound sometimes,so through a one way speaker without crossover you will listen the magic sound of Kondo.
You will have some limitation to listen loud and deep bass but what you will listen will be goose bumps.
I had Audiotekne 8716 carbon block with supertweeter ALE DEP 1750,sound with Ongaku was more than incredible,my 2 friends with Kageki and Ongaku has Yamamura speaker,one has small room but sound is fantastic.

Other friend has Ongaku with Horning Agalme Statement,you can see in web,price list 46.000 euro in Italy.
Other option can be Voxativ,Pnoe,Aer,
Below Audiotekne with Ale i had,and Yamamura that 2 my friends has

During one of AVS in Warsaw I heard Audio Tekne system with the speakers shown on your first picture.
It impressed me very much and ever since I have a lot of respect to Audio Tekne gear, but there is no dealer in Poland. Hari Strukejl from Slovenia represents Audio Tekne in our country. I would try their integrated amps immediately if they are represented directly in Poland. To be honest I like Audio Tekne sound more than any Kondo gear which I listened to.

 

[Bobvin]

It seems Tune Audio Anima would be in the same price neighborhood as the Diesis Caput Mundi, the Roma is a step up. If you choose Tune Audio and when you come to Vancouver you can still come for a visit to Portland to hear the Diesis Roma. I can’t show Diesis with Kondo, but in NYC Bob.east can!

With the Kondo gear, you deserve to have speakers that will deliver those goosebumps!

 

[Uwiik]

Sorry, I can not enlighten anyone, they must do that for themselves. If you like the Tune Audio Anima so much and they are less expensive then why not buy them and enjoy the music? That would be my suggestion.

I can’t decide anything right now, I want my horn purchase to be sort of “endgame” purchase if such thing exist. Like I said I am prepared to just get a sub 20k bridging speakers to keep me satisfied while waiting for the opportunity to Audition my “endgame” horns. I can’t say that I like Tune Audio Anima so much, I was just saying that based on my very limited “YouTube special” audition, it seems that Tune Audio Anima and the Diesis Aura-Caput Mundi-Roma are what caught my attention the most. As an ex salesperson, I understand that higher price always comes with reasons and I truly would like to know why I should pick Diesis Roma over the more affordable Tune Audio Anima. From what I can gather from YouTube, it seems like the Tune Audio Anima is more prone to being shouty than Diesis (both Caput and Roma), not saying Anima is shouty, it’s just that Diesis seems to be calmer on the shouting thing. If somebody can tell me that the vocal on Diesis is much better than Anima then it will be a much easier decision for me.

 

[Uwiik]

What will be the source you will be using in this system? Did you ever listen to the Kondo KSL DAC in a Kondo system?

I am planning to use ANUK CDT and DAC 5 or Kondo KSL DAC with ANUK CDT. Still undecided though because SACD Transport with DSD capable Roon ready Tube DAC like Nagra HD X sounds interesting too as I have Taiko SGM coming in 2-3 months for upstairs and all I need to do is drill my floor and run LAN cable to have both upstairs and downstairs system served by Taiko SGM in the best possible way. But that would make me stray away from my original intention to keep downstairs as simple as possible.... so yeah, still very undecided and do not want to think about that right now

 

[Uwiik]

It seems Tune Audio Anima would be in the same price neighborhood as the Diesis Caput Mundi, the Roma is a step up. If you choose Tune Audio and when you come to Vancouver you can still come for a visit to Portland to hear the Diesis Roma. I can’t show Diesis with Kondo, but in NYC Bob.east can!

With the Kondo gear, you deserve to have speakers that will deliver those goosebumps!

I will keep your invitation on hand Bob.West! I doubt I will be hasty this time, I want my horns purchase to he sort off “endgame” purchase if such thing exist and I can’t wait to hear the Diesis Roma in person.

 

[microstrip]

I am planning to use ANUK CDT and DAC 5 or Kondo KSL DAC with ANUK CDT. Still undecided though because SACD Transport with DSD capable Roon ready Tube DAC like Nagra HD X sounds interesting too as I have Taiko SGM coming in 2-3 months for upstairs and all I need to do is drill my floor and run LAN cable to have both upstairs and downstairs system served by Taiko SGM in the best possible way.

Thanks. How would you connect the Kondo KSL DAC ( just one SPDIF RCA input) to the Taiko SGM? I still keep a late mint boxed KSL Kondo DAC idling, hesitating between selling it or using it for a second system ...

 

[Uwiik]

Thanks. How would you connect the Kondo KSL DAC ( just one SPDIF RCA input) to the Taiko SGM? I still keep a late mint boxed KSL Kondo DAC idling, hesitating between selling it or using it for a second system ...

That’s what I was trying to say upthread. Sorry, English is not my first language . If I go the NOS DAC route with ANUK/Kondo downstairs then my Taiko will only serve one system upstairs. Care to share more on PM re Kondo KSL DAC? Sounds interesting