SRX Vinyl 2019 Blue Note Reissues, total Audiophile P.O.SHIT!!

[Skylab]

Well, I’m not an expert and don’t have 12 other pressings to compare it to, but the MM SRX of Wayne Shorter’s Adam’s Apple sounds GREAT to me, and isn’t lacking in ambiance, at least in my system and to my ears. JMO, YMMV.

 

[bazelio]

Yeah, really good!

 

[kodomo]

It is very interesting for me hear these. I love that era of blue note and as I have stated before, I got all the 45 reissues of MM. I also have some of the original pressings and have a record collector friend who has most of the original pressings. I have some 33 versions from MM, some Japanese pressings of these albums too. The 45rpm MM reissues beat all of them for me. I was so happy to hear them like they sounded in MM 45, I stopped pursuing the original pressings. My group of friends all thought the same. Why has some people preffered the 33s over 45s in MM reissues is beyond me. The naturalness of treble and its extension, the timbre of wind instruments and the dynamics are all better with 45rpm on my system.

RVG remasters are not good, for my ears, RVG started adding too much treble later in his life. These Blue Note recordings we talk about has his close miking technique and this does not aim for a natural recording of event but more like a idealized sound. You hear more into instruments than you can hear if it was live. This is whats been happening since then mostly with all recordings further and further. Still this era of RVG Blue Note recordings for me is just at the right point. It still feels natural although you know it can not sound like this live.

I changed 3 cartridges during these years and with all of them I had the same result. The only exception that comes to my mind is soundsmith strain gauge cartridge sounding different on some of them, less to my liking. Now I am waiting for the VDH African Grenadine Master Sig. Strad and I hope they will sound even better through that...

 

[ddk]

Went back and listened to some of the favorite titles people mentioned here and came away with the same impression as before. There's no ambience on any of them all you hear is some fake air that's either a filter or EQ or both like when they add dither to digital, whatever they did it's fake air not ambience. You can't hear any natural environment from the venue no is there any natural decay... and they're all processed with the same way, zzzzzzzz boring.

david

 

[Tango]

Went back and listened to some of the favorite titles people mentioned here and came away with the same impression as before. There's no ambience on any of them all you hear is some fake air that's either a filter or EQ or both like when they add dither to digital, whatever they did it's fake air not ambience. You can't hear any natural environment from the venue no is there any natural decay... and they're all processed with the same way, zzzzzzzz boring.

david

Try Japanese pressings sir.

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[dminches]

Try Japanese pressings sir.

Kind regards,
Tang

I think some of the Japanese pressings are very good. Toshiba and King Japan did a nice job. However, they did not work off of the masters. Blue Note would copy the masters and send them to Japan and that's what was used. Still, I have a lot of really good sounding Japanese pressings.

 

[Folsom]

My curiosity grows, if someone wants to let me borrow an example album I would weigh in. I am not really a jazz listener... just a huge critic of bad remasters.

 

[bazelio]

Went back and listened to some of the favorite titles people mentioned here and came away with the same impression as before. There's no ambience on any of them all you hear is some fake air that's either a filter or EQ or both like when they add dither to digital, whatever they did it's fake air not ambience. You can't hear any natural environment from the venue no is there any natural decay... and they're all processed with the same way, zzzzzzzz boring.

david

You just won't like a lot of old jazz recordings, as they were recorded in the equivalent of a 1950s working class basement. The ambience you seek and intimacy with the "venue" wasn't there in the first place.

 

[ddk]

You just won't like a lot of old jazz recordings, as they were recorded in the equivalent of a 1950s working class basement. The ambience you seek and intimacy with the "venue" wasn't there in the first place.

Some of the best recordings I’ve heard were done in the 50’s! I’m not looking for anything specific like that all, wherever the recording venue was, good or bad there’s a natural ambience in that space. An average or even mediocre recording can still sound natural and real. My negative criticism of the SRX isn’t about liking them or not it’s on their removal of any and all natural ambience that existed and replacing it with the fake unnatural ones they created and their heavy handed homogenized eq across the board masking specific frequencies butchering the performance and it’s not that all old records are great but they’re not hyped like the SRX. I’m judging this reissue accordingly and truly see it as shit for the reasons mentioned, the mastering could have been a lot more honest to the reality than this.
david

 

[dminches]

Some of the best recordings I’ve heard were done in the 50’s! I’m not looking for anything specific like that all, wherever the recording venue was, good or bad there’s a natural ambience in that space. An average or even mediocre recording can still sound natural and real. My negative criticism of the SRX isn’t about liking them or not it’s on their removal of any and all natural ambience that existed and replacing it with the fake unnatural ones they created and their heavy handed homogenized eq across the board masking specific frequencies butchering the performance and it’s not that all old records are great but they’re not hyped like the SRX. I’m judging this reissue accordingly and truly see it as shit for the reasons mentioned, the mastering could have been a lot more honest to the reality than this.
david

I know I sound like a broken record (ha ha) but give us an example of a late 50s RVG recording which has the characteristics that you think is missing from these SRX, or all the Music Matters, pressings? No one who I know who is familiar with the Blue Note catalog, from the original issues to the Japanese pressings through these SRX pressings is saying what you are hearing. It doesn't mean they are right, but they do have a perspective.

The hyping of SRX really has nothing to do with how they sound. That's just marketing.

 

[ddk]

I know I sound like a broken record (ha ha) but give us an example of a late 50s RVG recording which has the characteristics that you think is missing from these SRX, or all the Music Matters, pressings? No one who I know who is familiar with the Blue Note catalog, from the original issues to the Japanese pressings through these SRX pressings is saying what you are hearing. It doesn't mean they are right, but they do have a perspective.

The hyping of SRX really has nothing to do with how they sound. That's just marketing.

You sound like a broken record and continue to miss the point, find me one of the originals that sounds like the SRX! The sound is hyped, not just the marketing!

david

 

[dminches]

You sound like a broken record and continue to miss the point, find me one of the originals that sounds like the SRX! The sound is hyped, not just the marketing!

david

I am not missing the point at all. Maybe you just don't know what RVG 50s recordings sound like and thus have no perspective. No one can master a recording to add ambiance that isn't there in the first place.

Many people don't like the originals because they sound dead. The mics were too close to the instruments which eliminated any sound of the room. The ceiling was vaulted in the recording room which also killed ambiance. The piano was recorded poorly which has been well remastered into the reissues including the Toshiba and King Japan.

 

[ddk]

I am not missing the point at all. Maybe you just don't know what RVG 50s recordings sound like and thus have no perspective. No one can master a recording to add ambiance that isn't there in the first place.

Many people don't like the originals because they sound dead. The mics were too close to the instruments which eliminated any sound of the room. The ceiling was vaulted in the recording room which also killed ambiance. The piano was recorded poorly which has been well remastered into the reissues including the Toshiba and King Japan.

You ARE missing the point David when you continue to refer to the 50's RVG recordings, it's what has been done in this SRX lot that I'm critical of irrespective of the RVG.

I don't want to push back this hard David but you repeat the same line you read somewhere as if it's the gospel, so please enlighten us why does close miking or vaulted ceilings equal zero ambience? A living, breathing space always has something, tell me a single space with a bunch of people in it that has nothing even if everyone is absolutely silent because silence has it's own ambience too!

Actually there are many ways to add ambience and reverb to recordings but that's not what they went for here, the SRX removed what there was and replaced it with a fake, dead grayish and blackish backgrounds (not ambience) ala some audiophile cables. There's no life in these pressings just some dither or white noise they added to the mix.

So what if the piano was or wasn't recorded poorly on some tracks or record, another line that you read somewhere! It has nothing to do with what I'm criticizing.

david

 

[dminches]

the SRX removed what there was

david

This is the point I am challenging. What makes you think this is the case? That's why I am asking for a recording that have heard which illustrates the ambiance that you say was there.

And how can you ignore the 50s RVG? These are just remasters of that. That's where is all starts.

Did you think that the pre-SRX music matters releases are also missing what you think was there?

 

[ddk]

This is the point I am challenging. What makes you think this is the case? That's why I am asking for a recording that have heard which illustrates the ambiance that you say was there.

And how can you ignore the 50s RVG? These are just remasters of that. That's where is all starts.

Did you think that the pre-SRX music matters releases are also missing what you think was there?

I suggest that you challenge yourself and figure out what was done to this reissue, I know what I'm hearing. I ignore the RVG pressings because what I criticize is unique to this reissue and is common to all the ones I heard, you'll never find this shit on anything produced from that era!

Edit- While you're at it please look at your comments about close miking and vaulted ceilings as well, you're missing something there too.

david

 

[dminches]

I suggest that you should challenge yourself and figure out what was done to this reissue, I know what I'm hearing. I ignore the RVG pressings because what I criticize is unique to this reissue and is common to all the ones I heard, you'll never find this shit on anything produced from that era!

Edit- While you're at it please look at your comments about close miking and vaulted ceilings as well, you're missing something there too.

david

I have had multiple conversations with Joe Harley about the SRX releases. The mastering is no different than what was on the prior 130 Music Matters releases.

 

[ddk]

I have had multiple conversations with Joe Harley about the SRX releases. The mastering is no different than what was on the prior 130 Music Matters releases.

What does that mean? These are my only MM pressings are they all this bad? Were All 130 titles remastered by Kevin Gray and pressed in the same plant on SRX?

david

 

[bazelio]

There are at least two different mastering chains used. Generally the 33.3 RPM are a product of the "upgraded" chain which contained the Audioquest cables (among other equipment changes). Many/most of the previous 45s we're done on the old chain. Perhaps there are some exceptions, but I think this is the general rule. This is prior to SRX.

Now, I only have a couple SRX, and mostly the earlier MM stuff. But I understand David's observations now. I'm going to compare to the originals soon and see what I hear. I've not yet had a chance.

 

[dminches]

There are at least two different mastering chains used. Generally the 33.3 RPM are a product of the "upgraded" chain which contained the Audioquest cables (among other equipment changes). Many/most of the previous 45s we're done on the old chain. Perhaps there are some exceptions, but I think this is the general rule. This is prior to SRX.

Now, I only have a couple SRX, and mostly the earlier MM stuff. But I understand David's observations now. I'm going to compare to the originals soon and see what I hear. I've not yet had a chance.

I think the 45s were 50/50. You may also want to compare them to other reissues. Only the Don Was anniversary reissues were some to try to reproduce the originals. All the others were done differently (Japanese, connoisseur).

 

[bazelio]

Although, I will say these should be AAA all the way, so I don't know about the dithering claim.