Stereophile / Sirinious: Gryphon "Emotionally" Obliterates D'Agostino Amps

[XV-1]

I thought I was gonna read a thread about Gryphon amps and perhaps some comparison with D'Agostino amps. In the Stereophile article there was 3 references to 'D'Agostino' and the only comparisons I read was about the bass, the absence of 'magic' from the D'Ag amps and something vague about the inadequacy of dynamics from the Gryphon. Discussion about the amps doesn't seem to be happening in this thread.



I gather it was an article somewhat positive for the Gryphon amp and that's fine and the many paragraphs of quotes from the designer and the marketing director were communicative and somewhat interesting. But it is a terrible review. Almost as bad as his write-up on the ARC Ref 6SE in October where he rattles on about after-market products.



Why did the thread need to turn into another discussion about Fremer?

Hi Tim

You should know by now, the disingenuous click bait threads from Caesar are just that. I wonder if he even read the review, but he has mysteriously gone to ground now.

Agree, no real in depth comparison between the Progression or the Essence amps except Dag had better bass control and clarity and the Essence had more emotions on one track.

Something Fremer would have done if the Progression amps were his reference.

There was more editorial on footers for the Essence than music, as in stock form seemed not that good?

Cheers

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . .

Why did the thread need to turn into another discussion about Fremer?

I agree, Tim! I should have steered Gregadd's comment to a different thread, rather than responding to it directly on this thread. My mistake.

I have great respect for the way Michael for decades kept hope alive for vinyl and for analog playback, and I have great respect for his reviewing techniques and for his reviews. As a direct result I have a tendency to be reflexive in defending Michael against snarkiness.

 

[tima]

I have great respect for the way Michael for decades kept hope alive for vinyl and for analog playback

Yes. I agree with that.

 

[jeff1225]

Okay I have no desire to to start a flame war. He does accept long time loans. You said it yourself . He has at least $30kof cables. My source is his own video. Do you know at what point he purchased his equipment? Did he go to his dealer and purchase it. OR did he obtain a review sample? His own video says he was going to return a piece of equipment but he decided buy it. He does not pay for his review samples. Again watch the video.
Plenty of people pay retail. Especially on hot items. But there is a vast difference between a retail discount and industry accommodation prices.
Everything I said is accurate.
I have no complaint with Mr. Fremer. I wish other reviewers were more like him. I have praised and defended him on this site.

The only person that pays full MSRP in this hobby is Ron.

 

[knghifi]

Surely no one pays retail for Wilsons or Dartzeel??

Don't be too sure.

Many many moons ago when I moved to DC from So. Cal for one of my jobs, I was in market for new car. I'm an educated consumer so did my homework. While waiting for an option installed, talking to salesman and surprised he said 90%+ of buyers don't negotiate and just pay MSRP. Most only care monthly payment they can afford. He said a new salesman week ago 1st sale was to a couple MSRP + $6K markup.

 

[Gregadd]

The only person that pays full MSRP in this hobby is Ron.

Yeah I can only imagine those deep discounts on the Wilson WAMM.

 

[sbnx]

It was nice to see a Gryphon review. Although I generally do not enjoy reading Mr. Sirinious' reviews. He has an awkward writing style and I find he doesn't really break it down. And he tends to go on and on about things that are peripheral to the main topic. e.g Half of the review is comparing footers and their impact on the sound. However, it was clear that he did enjoy the Essence.

What I was really excited about was seeing the measurements of the amplifier. I was shocked that they did not meet the specified power output. In reality, the difference between 48 Watts and 55 Watts is practically nothing in terms of how well it will drive the speakers. I am just used to seeing that the power output from top tier manufacturers is under spec'd in most reviews. You typically see something like 'Amp XYZ is spec'd at 100W but "clipping" defined as 1% distortion occurs at 113W'

 

[Elliot G.]

Finally, a fair Gryphon review from Stereophile after all these years. According to Jason Victor Sirinious, Gryphon destroys D'Agostino amps when it comes to emotional involvement. D'Agostinos, on the other hand, are better at the analytical audiophile criteria from the Stereophile Audiophile Dictionary.

Fremer, who has called D'Agostinos his 2nd favorite amps, must be steaming.

Check out the review: Gryphon Emotionally Superior than D'Agostino

another perfect example of selective integrity when looking at a review. If the review is what you want to read you like it and yet you seem to bash every reviewer as corrupt and deaf when you don't
Smells like total Bull Sh-t to me.

 

[microstrip]

Sad, but true.

You should buy well cared used equipment - we suffer a lot less when we decide to change!

 

[Ron Resnick]

You should buy well cared used equipment - we suffer a lot less when we decide to change!

Actually, I do do that where possible.

 

[howiebrou]

Don't be too sure.

Many many moons ago when I moved to DC from So. Cal for one of my jobs, I was in market for new car. I'm an educated consumer so did my homework. While waiting for an option installed, talking to salesman and surprised he said 90%+ of buyers don't negotiate and just pay MSRP. Most only care monthly payment they can afford. He said a new salesman week ago 1st sale was to a couple MSRP + $6K markup.

Speaking of retail, this year Christmas tree importers in HK have imported very few due to Covide and due to short supply from their sources in the US. I was just offered a Noble fir for US$800! Looks like it will be a few twigs this Xmas!

 

[XV-1]

Speaking of retail, this year Christmas tree importers in HK have imported very few due to Covide and due to short supply from their sources in the US. I was just offered a Noble fir for US$800! Looks like it will be a few twigs this Xmas!

Howie - just put some Xmas decorations on your speakers and pretend you have two trees

 

[howiebrou]

Howie - just put some Xmas decorations on your speakers and pretend you have two trees

Yes, i could hang the wreaths around the drivers too to let the sound through!

 

[thedudeabides]

He pays for Wilson and/or DartZeel, but no where close to full retail. One of the perks of being a reviewer.

How much is his "reviewer discount"?

 

[jeff1225]

How much is his "reviewer discount"?

Typically 40-50%. It's called an "industry accommodation."

 

[thedudeabides]

Thanks for the info. I have received 30 to 35% on new or dealer demo gear.

 

[knghifi]

As I remember, Fremer takes out business loans to buy the equipment. He can write it off as business expense and save more money.

 

[Alrainbow]

AFAIK, Fremer has owned big darTZeels for years, 458s and now 468s. He has reviewed plenty of other big amps though, but kept the darTZeels over the years.

Fremer preferred the Moon monoblocs to the Darts when he tested then last year i think it was ...

 

[asiufy]

Fremer preferred the Moon monoblocs to the Darts when he tested then last year i think it was ...

No, he didn't.

From the review: https://www.stereophile.com/content/moon-simaudio-888-monoblock-power-amplifier-page-2

"Given a choice between the Moon by Simaudio 888, the Boulder 2150, and the very different-sounding Ypsilon Hyperion, which would I choose? That's my business. Which you'd choose is yours. I'm sticking with the darTZeel NHB-458s."

And that's *458*, not the *468* he has now.

 

[sbnx]

Not sure why this thread turned into a bashing of reviewer buying practices. If a reviewer wants to live with a product then that says something as they could generally choose whatever component to live with. There is no doubt that there is some conflict of interest between advertising dollars spent and the review content. But most of the components that the magazines review are good products and in many cases it comes down to personal preferences in how you want the sound presented or how well one gels with the other gear in the reviewers system. This seems to be much the case with the Gryphon review. Perhaps 50 watts was pushing the limit of an amps ability to effectively drive the Alexia 2's which are known to be difficult to drive. JS also noted that the D'Agostinos ticked more of the audiophile boxes (my paraphrase) while the Gryphon really spoke to his emotional involvement in the music.

Has anyone here compared both amplifiers in their system? Maye they could shed some additional light on the differences between them.