STILLPOINTS - ULTRA 5 under a turntable
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Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
I have just ordered 3x STILLPOINTS - ULTRA 5 to put under my Clearaudio Innovation.Anyone else using this combination.My only worry is I become addicted and put them under everything including my listen chair!
Stump
That's what Christian did!
I have just ordered 3x STILLPOINTS - ULTRA 5 to put under my Clearaudio Innovation.Anyone else using this combination.My only worry is I become addicted and put them under everything including my listen chair!
Stump
I tried them under a SME 30/12 and the experiment lasted 5 minutes. Turned the sound to a thick muddy mess.
Not surprised. Hard to mess with an already exquisitely designed and implemented suspended design. The most I would ever do with a suspended table of that caliber is provide it with a very solid and stable platform that transmits as little as possible from the floor. Oh, you did that.
From my experience (not with TTs at all), placement of the Ultra 5s is important. My Zanden 4-box is very finicky, and when I put 4 Ultra 5s under the Transport Powersupply, I was baffled to find everything clearer in terms of string delineation, etc...but it felt almost like everything was out of phase...imaging was all over the place, literally. I looked underneath where i'd put the Ultra 5s...and I realized I had placed them with narrow side down. I reversed them with narrow side up (directly under the Transport) and wider side on the equipment rack shelf, and it all snapped it into place.
I was warned about this by Distributor who admitted he did not know why sometimes this happens, but in this particular case, he was right. I also found it to be true with my Power Conditioner but to a much less extreme degree.
What I describe above sounds quite different from muddy...since again, certain elements like individual strings were clearer...but with the Ultra 5s 'accidentally upside down', the soundstage sure was diffuse.
I was warned about this by Distributor who admitted he did not know why sometimes this happens, but in this particular case, he was right. I also found it to be true with my Power Conditioner but to a much less extreme degree.
What I describe above sounds quite different from muddy...since again, certain elements like individual strings were clearer...but with the Ultra 5s 'accidentally upside down', the soundstage sure was diffuse.
Actually I did not use them under the Clearaudio as I use the Table Stable isolation platform. Short of using that, the Stillpoint Ultra 5's are a good choice or a passive device like Minus-K or Vibraplane.
That's what I thought until I tried a preloaded Vibraplane under my SME 30/12 for a total mass of 400 lbs. The SME has a great suspension, but I found that the table can indeed benefit from additional isolation like what I tried or like the HRS platform under Frank's table. I think the SME suspension in large part is meant to address vibrations at certain frequencies from the motor. By adding something like what Frank and I have done, you further isolate it from floor/ground/structure borne lower frequency vibrations. But under that, yes, a very solid, rigid and stable rack is essential.
Syntax (on Audiogon) discovered the same thing about isolation with his well-designed suspended Basis turntable when he placed it on a Vibraplane and rigid rack system.
Christian, Have you considered trying to place your superb TechDas AF1 on the Table Stable platform or do you think with the air suspension, the TechDas would not benefit from further isolation? I still wonder if the active technology in the Herzan devices will find their way into a mass loaded non-suspended turntable design. Could be quite expensive, but we are already there with SOTA designs like the TechDas and some others.
I'm starting to consider the possibility of trying it in the next month or two. It's a lot of work partially dissembling each table to do it.
This would be my suggestion, as well. Try adding isolation to the platform supporting the TT and I believe you will preserve and enhance the performance of the excellent suspension system of the SME.
Stillpoints Ultra products: Turntables
Not having been able to test all suspended designs, we have found isolating their support platforms can significantly improve performance.
As one would expect, attaching directly to a non-suspended design can significantly improve performance. See my original Aries below with Ultra 5 on the plinth and Ultra Mini attached to the motor pod. Transformed the table.
Not having been able to test all suspended designs, we have found isolating their support platforms can significantly improve performance.
As one would expect, attaching directly to a non-suspended design can significantly improve performance. See my original Aries below with Ultra 5 on the plinth and Ultra Mini attached to the motor pod. Transformed the table.
Cheers John
I just put the Ultra 5 under the Clearaudio Innovation but at the same time my replacement cart has arrived.They look great and in theory helpful for vibration.As I don't have super sonic hearing and memory like some I don't remember the old sound to compare with the new.They sounded Great Both Times.Ill give the sound a while to normalize my brain then if I remove the Ultra 5 and give it a spin I will have a better chance to notice a downgrade in sound.
Cheers Stump
I just put the Ultra 5 under the Clearaudio Innovation but at the same time my replacement cart has arrived.They look great and in theory helpful for vibration.As I don't have super sonic hearing and memory like some I don't remember the old sound to compare with the new.They sounded Great Both Times.Ill give the sound a while to normalize my brain then if I remove the Ultra 5 and give it a spin I will have a better chance to notice a downgrade in sound.
Cheers Stump
Wall mount for instance, furthermore I've "mechanically grounded" my suspender directly with 3 bolted BDR cones, on a light and very rigid platform w/wall mount. Note: not all wall mounts are created equal ... I've witnessed many which acted like a spring.
I've had limited success with differing type still point types under turntables. The only times I found these devices to "work" under certain turntables (esp non suspension decks) is when the shelf it sits upon - is a compromised affair.
tb1
Understanding Ultra 5 benefits
Hi Stump - yes, in terms of understanding change it is always best to make them one at a time and listen for a period of days in order to fully understand the sonic differences. I agree the best way now to single out what the Ultra 5s are doing is to listen for a period of several days, or longer, allowing the technology pockets of the Ultra 5s to settle in while also breaking in the new cartridge. Once you are sure the cartridges is broken in and you feel comfortable with your assessment of the system's sound, then take out the Ultra 5s and listen. Again, I caution against the temptation of making quick judgments over a small sample of listening time.
Hi Stump - yes, in terms of understanding change it is always best to make them one at a time and listen for a period of days in order to fully understand the sonic differences. I agree the best way now to single out what the Ultra 5s are doing is to listen for a period of several days, or longer, allowing the technology pockets of the Ultra 5s to settle in while also breaking in the new cartridge. Once you are sure the cartridges is broken in and you feel comfortable with your assessment of the system's sound, then take out the Ultra 5s and listen. Again, I caution against the temptation of making quick judgments over a small sample of listening time.
Hi Stump. The Ultra 5's look grea under the innovation. From the picture, I see you are using the Clearaudio Balance + phono pre ? If so, you should seriously consider the ACCU+ battery power supply for the unit. It makes a big difference in dropping the noise floor of the phono stage (I have this setup, but not currently in use).
Stillpoints "Types"
I can't comment on the different situations and systems in which you have setup turntables. But... please direct me to the 'differing still point types' to which you refer. I am not aware of these products in the marketplace. Concerning TT support platforms. What do you consider a "compromised affair"? I have never tested a non-suspended TT that did not benefit from our isolation.
I can't comment on the different situations and systems in which you have setup turntables. But... please direct me to the 'differing still point types' to which you refer. I am not aware of these products in the marketplace. Concerning TT support platforms. What do you consider a "compromised affair"? I have never tested a non-suspended TT that did not benefit from our isolation.
I've had the Stillpoints Ultra 5s under the turntable for a while now and everything has bedded in nicely! I wont be taking them off to hear any difference because it is a noticeable tighter sound .I will say I am saving up to put Ultra 5s under my front speakers.The fun continues
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Stump
..Stump
Don't get me wrong about this post because I'm not trying to dis any other turntable makers, or any tweak sellers, rack builders, or anything like that, but...
...a turntable that is reportedly high-end shouldn't need any tweaking. It should just sit there, and quietly do its job. That's what you paid for, right?
The whole demonstration got lost in the fervor of the moment, but I showed my turntable at RMAF with it sitting on $22 worth of IKEA junk, which was tossed in the dumpster after the show. The IKEA pieces were hollow-core with 3mm thick surfaces, if that. Anyway, the point to was to demonstrate how the deck handles isolation, even though we got caught up in the room, and forgot to mention it. I must have been right, however, because I didn't hear any complaints in that department, quite the opposite.
The more I think about it, the more I believe that it is reasonable to expect such isolation from any supposedly good turntable. If not, how does the designer know what he has when everything is said and done? If I had to worry about using tweaks, I would never know when the thing was finished. Think about it.
That's not to say that one day I may design a turntable that benefits from Stillpoints. If I do, they will come with the unit because I feel the need to control the outcome of what I make.
Disclaimer: Mileage varies, of course.
...a turntable that is reportedly high-end shouldn't need any tweaking. It should just sit there, and quietly do its job. That's what you paid for, right?
The whole demonstration got lost in the fervor of the moment, but I showed my turntable at RMAF with it sitting on $22 worth of IKEA junk, which was tossed in the dumpster after the show. The IKEA pieces were hollow-core with 3mm thick surfaces, if that. Anyway, the point to was to demonstrate how the deck handles isolation, even though we got caught up in the room, and forgot to mention it. I must have been right, however, because I didn't hear any complaints in that department, quite the opposite.
The more I think about it, the more I believe that it is reasonable to expect such isolation from any supposedly good turntable. If not, how does the designer know what he has when everything is said and done? If I had to worry about using tweaks, I would never know when the thing was finished. Think about it.
That's not to say that one day I may design a turntable that benefits from Stillpoints. If I do, they will come with the unit because I feel the need to control the outcome of what I make.
Disclaimer: Mileage varies, of course.
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Mosin, You make a valid point. However, there are many examples of well regarded turntables benefitting further from good isolation. In another thread, there is a report about how the $100K TechDas turntable benefits from the active isolation of the $13K Herzan TableStable. Apparently, it provides quite an improvement.
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