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TAS review Berning 211/845 amplifier
- Thread starter microstrip
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You can buy UK goods cheap now
Microstrip, thanks for the link.
We can't ignore the context: Let's not forget that for the better part of the last decade Harley has been telling us how Soulution/ Constellation is the best there is. Same pattern as when Valin moved from Magico Q5 to the more euphonic Raidho after spending a long time with that speaker.
Berning and his products are phenomenal. He is a true innovator within this hobby that can go quite askew with pseudo-science. I've met and spoken to him at a few shows. He's quite humble and softs spoken.
I have owned one of his ZH-270's for about 10 years - I sold it last year to make some room for my direct drive amps for the Beveridge electrostatics. The 270 and all the Quadrature derivatives do bass like no other tube amp you have heard. Hartley describes the nature of Berning's amp well in his article. I have heard the 211/845 but not in my system.
Unfortunately, Berning went to intermediary distribution which turned end user cost about 2.5x what it was. The distributor and dealer get their princely cut. At $75K I wouldn't do it. At half of that it would be "reasonable".
I prefer the 211... not the 845 but then I roll Wyetech 211 into the system now and then and that's a beast so I'm biased to the 211. The Berning is a winner if your speakers and your budget manages it.
I have owned one of his ZH-270's for about 10 years - I sold it last year to make some room for my direct drive amps for the Beveridge electrostatics. The 270 and all the Quadrature derivatives do bass like no other tube amp you have heard. Hartley describes the nature of Berning's amp well in his article. I have heard the 211/845 but not in my system.
Unfortunately, Berning went to intermediary distribution which turned end user cost about 2.5x what it was. The distributor and dealer get their princely cut. At $75K I wouldn't do it. At half of that it would be "reasonable".
I prefer the 211... not the 845 but then I roll Wyetech 211 into the system now and then and that's a beast so I'm biased to the 211. The Berning is a winner if your speakers and your budget manages it.
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I agree it is some of Harley's better work, but would have been much better if he compared it to similar products. He ends up using Valin's quote pertaining to VAC. Without understanding relative differences between components, one can then generalize these conclusions to all tube amps...
Something better more beautiful comes along . If you sampled as many wares as he does , similar proclamations would likely arise .
I wish you were right. But my point is that he hasn't. It's a boomerang reaction, unfortunately, to cold SS gear he has been listening to for a while.
I have heard several Berning models and they are very good. But instead of comparing to something meaningful to help confused audiophiles make sense of this market space, he ends up quoting his buddy Valin. How helpful is that for the fan or potential consumer? What about Lamm,Kondo, Shindo, Cat, Vac, atmosphere.....?
Too bad we live in a culture where reviewers disrespect us.
The Atmasphere is a DC coupled amplifier going through all audio bandwidth - tubes directly connected to the speakers. The ZOTL is coupled through transformers, that work outside the audio bandwidth. It uses tubes, no output transformer working in the audio band, but is not like the conventional OTLs. We have seen regularly bloody fights on this subject in audio forums in the early 2000's and perhaps even before, let us hope they do not start in WBF!
I liked the fact that he brings attention to the low-register response and how this pertains to some passages of classical, meaning that most people wouldn't find it an issue at all.
OK, we'll have to agree to disagree then
And if it makes it more reasonable to you all, I can change that to "Most good tube amps I've heard"... That's about as non-generic I can get, without mentioning specific brands... And of course, it is *my* perception of things, both the darTZeels as most of the tube amps I've heard.
no. I would not attempt to combine solid state and tube. and my move from Tenor OTL's to the darTZeel 108 was that I saw it as best of both worlds. still do even more so with the 458's.
however; tube amps do interest me and I'd love to have a set of tube amps on hand for the occasional flirtation. I tried that with the Found Music 2a3 DHT monos on my MM3's 4 years ago but 2-3 watts could not get the job done. my current speakers are an easy enough load and get helped with active bass and the coherence of mimicking bass amps, so a broad spectrum of tube amps can be a fit....anything north of 20 watts could work on the MM7's.
unfortunately with my investment in the 458's I cannot rationalize 'uber' costing tube amps sitting there gathering dust. it may never happen, but it could happen.
I've just recently got the Berning Pre One, mainly for its phono stage. I was using a Halcro DM10 which has a very good phono stage but preferred digital straight from dCS Vivaldi. Now I'm also listening to digital with the PreOne.
I haven't compared the pre to a lot at home but I'm currently at RMAF and I love the sound of the Nagra room on the 10th floor. Room 1030.
I haven't compared the pre to a lot at home but I'm currently at RMAF and I love the sound of the Nagra room on the 10th floor. Room 1030.
Looks less complex to me that just the output portion of this gear after the DAC here:
Each Opamp itself has an equivalent schematics of transistor + other parts count which amount to around 40...
I know how he designed them - was reading about his technologies a few years ago while researching tube amp topologies.
One question has been bugging me lately: I also saw another builder use high-frequency components to power tube amps (something like a SMPS).
Does anyone know if RFI/EMI is an issue for Tube amps at all?
You should try a big Ayon, Aries Cerat, some NAT, or big KR SET then because they tend to get a big dose of both that I haven't heard with other SETs or push pull tubes. Not to mention they all have bone crunching bass but with texture I have never heard from any SS amp. IME, they deliver "you are there" for larger works where hall space "reconstruction " is important and "they are here" palpability of the better (if not the best) small SETs.
FWIW, Bernings technology is not true OTL. He is doing some kind of high frequency carrier transformation that allows for special small transformers but seems to avoid saturation issues.
Those Wyetechs are very nicely made products! I reviewed the Wyetech Pearl preamp about 11 years ago and it was a very nice product.
Does yours use the Bartolucci output transformers? I know in the beginning Wyetech was using Audio Note output iron. Apparently, Wyetech amps do not sound particularly tubey but are very transparent and open with great bass.
Hello,
Yes, the Wyetech does fly under the radar. I believe if they used a traditional dealer/distribution channel they would be 2-3x price. Mine is the latest with the Bartlucci transformers. I can't hear the difference between the two as I had the original one on loan for some time before purchasing. This model is all power supply at over 45kg or about 110lbs.
Interesting. I have the Ayon Crossfire III and it is also 45Kg of mostly power supply (although the output transformers are also quite large). The Aries Cerat Diana, which I still have for review, is tipping the scales at 110Kg though...now that is a heavy amp!
Looking forward to your impressions of the Aries Cerat amp. When (and where) do you expect to be publishing/releasing your review? Thanks!!
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