TechDAS Air Force Zero (real final photo)

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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London
Sorry, I can't follow :oops:
Think he is asking which version of the Vyger. Shane, the version currently is 4, and the previous one is much older, like 15 or so years, not sure. Bill or zerostargeneral might know
 

Audiophile Bill

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2015
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UK
Hi Ron,
Back to that day I had arranged an appointment to listen to some turntables as I was looking to upgrade from Prime Signature. The dealer had set for me the Af3, and the Master Innovation (with the linear tracking Tonearm)

The AF3 was clearly better that the Clearaudio, however the sound was very clinical, not to mention some technical issues that had to be dealt there.

I tried hard to like this turntable but I was missing the vinyl’s organic sound. One can say that perhaps the amplifiers and phono used were not the proper (Burmester) but that was my experience
I had the exact same experience when the launched the regular AF3 in UK. Very clinical sounding even with Coralstobe and valve EAT phono. I then heard the same characteristics in countless further instances. Nothing like the big brethren imho.
 
Likes: 108CY
May 4, 2013
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I have had various problems with the early Airforce 3 turntables and there was an intrinsic hardness, I ended up playing around with custom arm mounts etc to tame things down.

I remember having my Airforce One with Sat arm and Continuum Cobra set up one day and at the side having an modified Kodo Beat ,with an Highly tweaked High pressure Airtangent Reference tonearm with additional refridgeration and dryers. The comparison was almost laughable everyone and i mean everyone was astonished how the Kodo and the Airtangent just had a sense of mechanical freedom the bass actually breathed in the room with sheer scale. In my opinion a well set up air bearing tonearm can just do magical things the Tech Das sounded just so constrained and dry with a sense of hardness and rather flat and boring. Changing the topic a bit I truly a well sorted Airbearing tonearm can do Bass in a Serious manner with a sense of natural freedom that is uncanny less Hifi more music.
 
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May 4, 2013
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Cannot support you on the AF3 as I did not have it in my room, but using the Kuzma AirLine with an appropriate cart on my Micro Seiki 8000 double platter design sounds magical.
Many vinyl lovers do resist compressors not knowing how much potential they are giving away.

I can only agree I have the 8000 mk2 a with a Kuzma Ailine and an Airtangent and know it well it is a rather special combination indeed. I have played with Air Bearing tonearms since the age of 12, I remember my first ET tonearm with a room full of 20 home made surge tanks trying to use it on a LP12 then on a Alpahason sonata turntable magical moments indeed. I then went on to getting custom arm wands made for the ET and the rest is history.
 
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spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
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E. England
Boys, I'm absolutely in clover listening to music w my low pressure air-bearing LT.

With both of your experiences, mine, and Audiophile Bill's using the Vyger air LTer, there are just too many data points to say "air-bearing LT arms, no thanks, they just can't do bass".
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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108CY, even though yr Kodo Beat/Airline is a different beast from my rim drive tt/air LT, I'm sure I have a good idea of the epiphany you have in listening to this.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
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Hell was never so heavenly as via tangential/LT.
 
Aug 10, 2018
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Southern California
Ron. You need to get out more. How many millennials are spending lots of $$ on hifi.

400K turntables I am afraid is obscene. How many of these hi end jewellery ( hifi) companies will be around in 5 or 10 years?

once us pensioners get too old to spend $$ on hifi, it will be over as we see it today. Same for vinyl.

Streaming is the present and future of hifi and video. that said, I will still enjoy my vinyl albums, just refuse to pay the obscene prices they are charging for $20 Blue Note albums.
You're not suggesting $20 is too much for an LP? In the early 80's I was buying Polygram imports at a "good" price of $10 per LP. We've had real inflation of about 3-4 fold since then which means those LPs (when their were a lot more sold) would be 30-50 today. So $20 for a Blue Note is pretty low. We're just getting old and sounding like our grand-parents 40 years ago: "I remember when I could go to the movie and buy lunch for a quarter." ;)
 

Folsom

VIP/Donor
Oct 26, 2015
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Eastern WA
You're not suggesting $20 is too much for an LP? In the early 80's I was buying Polygram imports at a "good" price of $10 per LP. We've had real inflation of about 3-4 fold since then which means those LPs (when their were a lot more sold) would be 30-50 today. So $20 for a Blue Note is pretty low. We're just getting old and sounding like our grand-parents 40 years ago: "I remember when I could go to the movie and buy lunch for a quarter." ;)
$10 in 1983 is $25.38 today. But volume is low so it's not a surprise if they cost more.

We millennials would love to spend more money. But the economy is built around serving baby-boomers the cheapest stuff there is, while they cling onto the last decent jobs.
 

XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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Sydney
You're not suggesting $20 is too much for an LP? In the early 80's I was buying Polygram imports at a "good" price of $10 per LP. We've had real inflation of about 3-4 fold since then which means those LPs (when their were a lot more sold) would be 30-50 today. So $20 for a Blue Note is pretty low. We're just getting old and sounding like our grand-parents 40 years ago: "I remember when I could go to the movie and buy lunch for a quarter." ;)
no not at all. $20 is a fair price. I am talking about the $60 - $80 they are charging for new reissues of these Blue Note albums.
 
Aug 10, 2018
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$10 in 1983 is $25.38 today. But volume is low so it's not a surprise if they cost more.

We millennials would love to spend more money. But the economy is built around serving baby-boomers the cheapest stuff there is, while they cling onto the last decent jobs.
Skip the federal tables for inflation rates. They're BS. Simply look back on what you can remember (it you're old enough) for a host of items. That will give a more realistic picture. There is much writing on how the indexes have been manipulated over the years to avoid appropriate increases in military pay, Social Security, COA adjustments, etc. This doesn't even count the motivation to camouflage the erosion of wages over the decades. I believe a realistic estimate is the over 3x since 1980 and over 10x since 1968 when gas was .28/gal, candy bar was .05, stamp was .05, rent on an inner city small house in Cleveland was 100/mo, a decent new car was 2K or less. A McDonalds Fish Sandwich was .35 and big mac was around .40. A burger was .18 ( a loss leader bargain at 1.00 today), all that when my mom made (trucking secretary) made 100/wk with which she was working poor. That would be about 50K/yr today (10x) in Ohio. Many folks would be ecstatic to earn 50K/yr today in Cleveland.
 
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Folsom

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Oct 26, 2015
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I think about that, what percentage of $10 for an LP was it of someones income in 1980?

In the 60’s you bought a house that was 3x your income, and a car that was 1/3 your income. Try finding that today!
 

gian60

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2016
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The new version of Vyger Atlantis and Indian Signature is the 4 and in Italy the price list is
Atlantis euro 54.000 and Indian Signature 55.000 euro.

The previous version of Atlantis and Indian Signature are old of at least 15 or more years and you can find in Italy used at 9.000/12.000 but the dimension of the pump was 2/3 smaller and with oil inside that could give some problems,was not the new digital controller for the air and the arm was not with ceramic and carbon fiber like now

This is the big pump,the digital controller,and the high quality of tonearm
 

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Aug 10, 2018
94
36
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Southern California
I think about that, what percentage of $10 for an LP was it of someones income in 1980?

In the 60’s you bought a house that was 3x your income, and a car that was 1/3 your income. Try finding that today!
I worked in a TGI Fridays kitchen (no tips) for $5/hr while in college. That would been I needed 2 hrs of work for each 10 record. Today, that might be a $15/hr job (after the recent min wage increases in CA) which means up to $30 per record would be equivalent. Other states, folks only make about $10 per hour.
 
Jan 29, 2012
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I think about that, what percentage of $10 for an LP was it of someones income in 1980?

In the 60’s you bought a house that was 3x your income, and a car that was 1/3 your income. Try finding that today!
In the 1960's interest rates were 17%+. Housing price accretion has been hand and hand with ultra low interest rates and the addition of the second and even third mortgage.
 

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