Thanks. It would be interesting to see the rest of your WASP worksheet numbers.
My A1 is 44".
I'm still trying to figure out if the Alexias will work in my 12' x 18' room, before I fly over to Oahu to hear them.
The Alexia's are HERE!
- Thread starter Bruce B
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Thanks. It would be interesting to see the rest of your WASP worksheet numbers.
My A1 is 44".
I'm still trying to figure out if the Alexias will work in my 12' x 18' room, before I fly over to Oahu to hear them.
Well my room is about 13' x 21' and the Alexia's work perfectly in here. The rear port is firing directly into the corner bass trap.
Looks like they were measuring from a piece of molding on the floor, so here are the final measurements.
A1 = 40.5"
A2 = 26.25"
B = 8' 9"
C = 10' 10"
D = 21" (approximate since corner is triangulated)
E = 41"
W = 13' 1"
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Hi Bruce, I love your new speakers, they are handsome and have a style cross between Art Deco and a 1950s robot on steroids! Bet they sound great. Though I must say I was a bit disappointed that the last speakers did not work out.
I see your new graph posted, and while I don't recall what the last speakers measured like, I see this ain't no straight line! Or as you called it "flat", which is what you were looking for in the previous thread. But don't despair! As you said the Wilsons are the best sounding speaker you have heard in your room.
And thats just it, why are you trying to "please" a computer? You said the Wilsons were set up (unlike your previous speakers, except for a little assist from Bob Hodas) by some very experienced installers. They liked the results and you love the results. So why all the hocus pocus with computers and measuring. You knew the previous speakers sounded bad, you did not need a computer to tell you that! And now you know how great Wilson speakers sound, you should just enjoy listening to them.
I and everyone else I know tune their system by ear, to please our ears, isn't that what is ultimately important. My system sounds great with bass extension to below 20hz, tuned by ear!
Of course I am sure you now realize the absurdity in using EQ in the vain attempt to obtain a flat response... all to please a computer!
Wendell
I see your new graph posted, and while I don't recall what the last speakers measured like, I see this ain't no straight line! Or as you called it "flat", which is what you were looking for in the previous thread. But don't despair! As you said the Wilsons are the best sounding speaker you have heard in your room.
And thats just it, why are you trying to "please" a computer? You said the Wilsons were set up (unlike your previous speakers, except for a little assist from Bob Hodas) by some very experienced installers. They liked the results and you love the results. So why all the hocus pocus with computers and measuring. You knew the previous speakers sounded bad, you did not need a computer to tell you that! And now you know how great Wilson speakers sound, you should just enjoy listening to them.
I and everyone else I know tune their system by ear, to please our ears, isn't that what is ultimately important. My system sounds great with bass extension to below 20hz, tuned by ear!
Of course I am sure you now realize the absurdity in using EQ in the vain attempt to obtain a flat response... all to please a computer!
Wendell
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Alexandre said, "How were these graphs measured? Nearfield, 1m, 2m, etc.?"
AGGGHHHH! What does it matter? He could put the microphone in the upper right hand corner of the room or for that matter in another room altogether, and the speakers will still sound the same! I don't understand what you are looking for? No one I know has measured speakers and we all have great sounding systems. And this without measurements or distortion riddled equalizers robbing our systems of their purity and essence! Of course you need great equipment to begin with and you need a good ear with a knowledge of what real music sounds like! No rock, hiphop or electronics need apply!
Wendell
AGGGHHHH! What does it matter? He could put the microphone in the upper right hand corner of the room or for that matter in another room altogether, and the speakers will still sound the same! I don't understand what you are looking for? No one I know has measured speakers and we all have great sounding systems. And this without measurements or distortion riddled equalizers robbing our systems of their purity and essence! Of course you need great equipment to begin with and you need a good ear with a knowledge of what real music sounds like! No rock, hiphop or electronics need apply!
Wendell
Here's the thing Wendell.... I may be the only one on this forum that uses their speakers in a professional environment. What this means is I'm not looking for listening enjoyment, though if it happens then it's a bonus!
What I'm looking for is accuracy. Clients come to me for mastering their projects. Some of these projects may be heard by tens of thousands of people. Now look at the second graph above....
If a client brings me a project and I start listening to it, I may or may not think there is a deficiency at 62Hz or may think the area around 190Hz is a little too much. So if I correct that on EQ, then it will sound great in my room... but ONLY in my room. I need the mastering to sound good on EVERY system and not all systems have the same frequency tracings as mine.
So with that said, hopefully I've cleared up some of what I am going for. I know this can be corrected and be much better. That is the goal I'm trying to attain.... not trying to appease some computer!
Hi Bruce, Don't get your undies in a bunch. Hey, I am on your side, I think the Wilson is a good speaker, as well as your previous speakers the Evolution Acoustics. If I could afford either set they would be on my wish list.
You say the Alexias sound great, I am happy for you, because you did not like the MM3s. Now you say the Alexia sound the best you ever heard (again congratulations) but you are looking for accuracy.
OK I'm with ya then. How are you going to eliminate what appears to me to be a 20db plus freq response variation? If I get you right, that is what you are saying, that you are looking to automagically turn your freq response into a +/- 3db freq response. And I will try to remember that you have a different goal in listening to speakers (and music also I suppose) than myself and just about everyone else on this forum.
How are you going to correct it? I guess the only way is EQ, is that in your mystery bag of tricks? You mentioned previously you some EQ capability. I do hear the DSpeaker EQ can be the cats meow, but I have not heard it personally.
Wendell
You say the Alexias sound great, I am happy for you, because you did not like the MM3s. Now you say the Alexia sound the best you ever heard (again congratulations) but you are looking for accuracy.
OK I'm with ya then. How are you going to eliminate what appears to me to be a 20db plus freq response variation? If I get you right, that is what you are saying, that you are looking to automagically turn your freq response into a +/- 3db freq response. And I will try to remember that you have a different goal in listening to speakers (and music also I suppose) than myself and just about everyone else on this forum.
How are you going to correct it? I guess the only way is EQ, is that in your mystery bag of tricks? You mentioned previously you some EQ capability. I do hear the DSpeaker EQ can be the cats meow, but I have not heard it personally.
Wendell
We have to remember that in room measurements taken at listening position are not anechoic measurements taken at 1 or 2m - the regular tilted down slope is natural and is a good indication of an excellent sound! IMHO, for consumers in room full range measurements are mainly diagnostic measurements that should be complemented by listening findings. Anyway I am envious of Bruce nice and regular results in the bass down to 20 Hz - they show that his room is very well controlled in difficult zone.
I attach a response taken in similar conditions of the Aida's - 5dB /division 65 dB dynamic range. I only show it above 45 Hz - the sub that usually fills the horrible 30-35 Hz room dip was not connected!
I attach a response taken in similar conditions of the Aida's - 5dB /division 65 dB dynamic range. I only show it above 45 Hz - the sub that usually fills the horrible 30-35 Hz room dip was not connected!
Attachments
This is probably the hardest part... that last 2-3%. I know getting it perfecially flat is not going to happen, but at least get it as linear as possible without any major dips/peaks. I do have some flexibility in my listening position and I've already decided to put 2 subs in here and maybe a good EQ system. Now I just have to find them!
I know the subs can take care of the dip at 62Hz and maybe smooth out the response a little more up to 200Hz. We'll see. My only other concern is the 1300Hz null which I might be able to fix by moving my listening position.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Why is it that *everyone* seems to have a room dip at around 60 Hz to 65 Hz? I have now seen that same dip numerous times. Everybody has different rooms with different nodes and different speakers placed differently within the room. I'm surprised that in spite of those differences, there is some commonality with the dip centered between 60 Hz to 65 Hz in multiple rooms.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
I've got the same dip at 62 Hz Bruce. I thought the same about the two subs as a simple fix. Trust me it isn't
DSP can help, but will not solve problem due to dips unless you have subs and can play with their position - they should not be too close to the main speakers.
I don't know what the x-over points are on the Alexia, but changing the midrange and tweeter resistors can increase the drivers output.
BTW, I don't see the 1.3K dip in the measurements in this review:
http://www.absolutesounds.com/pdf/main/press/WA%20Alexia%20HFN%200313-4web.pdf
I haven't read the review, but Martin Colloms gives the Alexia an Audio Excellence rating in the HIFICRITIC Vol7 no 1.
Martin also provides measurements and in his review of the Sophia 3s, he discussed the use of the midrange/tweeter resistors.
From what I remember, your MM3's measured a lot more flat that this. I personally find there is very little correlation between in room measurment and perceived sound quality, so as a "consumer" this would not bother me one bit. However, since as a pro/producer your stated goal is "accuracy" (nor SQ per se), wouldn't this be a step back from what you had? Or is my recollection of the measurements of the MM3s off?
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