The best and worst at rmaf 2012

[MadFloyd]

Was the FM/Venture room the large room closest to the bar on the lobby level?

 

[mep]

Here are some crappy pictures taken with my Iphone:



[/ATTACH]

I brought a Sony digital cam with me, but I just didn't feel like carrying it around. It probably wouldn't have mattered anyway with regards to the picture quality as I shoot horrible pictures. Given the amount of pain I was in (and still am), I probably should have kept my sorry ass at home. Having to shake hands with people only exacerbated the pain in my right arm. I had a few knuckleheads that employed the Vulcan death-grip handshake that sent shockwaves of pain through my arm. I'm sure a few people who don't know me might have questioned my masculinity after receiving a limp handshake. I did the best I could, but I feel like my healing process has regressed. Enough whining...

With regards to YG Acoustics, last year I heard them in multiple rooms and I thought the common denominator was that they sucked in every room I heard them in. This year I thought they sounded good in every room I heard them in. Myles even asked the YG reps what they changed because Myles and I both heard the same thing. We both figured that something had to have changed in the design of the YG speakers in order for them to sound good in every single room they were in this year. They swore nothing changed, but it's hard to believe this is so. Whatever the reason, hats off to YG for getting good sound in every room they were in. This represents a dramatic turnaround from last year for YG.

 

[mep]

i went to the FMA-Venture room once each day and listened. i liked it but it never really connected with me. i heard a number of familiar recordings that i have in the room.

particularly i listened to 'Why Worry' from Dire Straits 'Brothers in Arms' redbook in the sweet spot with me as the only person in the room. this track has lots of textural nuance and can be quite a trip. it was good in this room, but it did not really get up and take flight like i would have expected. it did not seem to have that decay and spacial specialness, nor the micro-dynamics i'm use to. i don't expect any show system to quite measure up to my reference, but this system ought to go farther.

is it the amps? the speakers? the cables? the source? the room?

as always, it's a show. and YMMV. but when you are talking multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars and a big room the expectations are high.

Mike brings up some interesting points. First of all, I think it is a small miracle that anyone gets good sound at these shows-specially those who are in the normal size hotel rooms and not suites. If you hear a system sound damn good in a hotel room, you can bet your neighbor’s paycheck that the same system setup in your listening room (assuming you have a listening room that is better than a hotel room) will sound 10x better.

The FMA system was being shown in a “ballroom” and was therefore a huge room to load into. I didn’t care for the looks of the speakers being used-not that it’s supposed to matter, but of course it does. Like Mike, I was underwhelmed with the sound. It sounded really good, but for those that think the FMA room blew away the MBL room, I strongly disagree. But it’s all about opinions in this hobby right?

 

[MadFloyd]

I also agree that YG sounded good this time (and has never in the past for me). I commented that it was a much warmer sound than what I remembered and the YG rep there told me they had made 'a lot' of changes based on feedback.

 

[mep]

I also agree that YG sounded good this time (and has never in the past for me). I commented that it was a much warmer sound than what I remembered and the YG rep there told me they had made 'a lot' of changes based on feedback.

How interesting. They told me and Myles they made no changes. And I agree with your assessment with regards to how much warmer they sounded than last year. Last year they had no soul and sounded cold and left me cold.

 

[chrisr]

This was my first show. I had high expectations, but soon realized how bad show conditions can be. IMO most of the systems sounded bland at best, including most of the big hitters. There were only around 5 rooms that were memorable. But I realize that many of these systems would sound better under different conditions.

IMO the best room was the Evolution Acoustics room -- it was interesting that they showed with BMC instead of Dartzeel and yet they still hit it out of the park. Some other decent rooms were FMA, MBL, and Doshi/Wilson. There might be one or two others that I'm forgeting.

As a WattPuppy owner I was looking forward to hearing the Alexia, but thought the demo was unimpressive - especially with all those pricey electronics. I look forward to hearing these again in a better room. And more Evolution Acoustics too...

Forgot to mention Vivid/Luxman. Definitely in my top 5.

 

[mep]

As a WattPuppy owner I was looking forward to hearing the Alexia, but thought the demo was unimpressive - especially with all those pricey electronics. I look forward to hearing these again in a better room.

According to Marty, you can blame it on the 6550 tubes being used by VTL instead of KT-88s. I for one don’t buy that. I hope no one wants to make the general claim that all KT-88s sound better than any 6550. They don’t. Can you say Svetlana KT-88? That is one example. Marty didn’t say which KT-88 he prefers. Luke Manley probably didn’t design the VTL amps, but he is responsible for their design and I’m quite sure if Luke felt that KT-88s smoked the sound of 6550s that Luke would have used KT-88s in his amp.

I think this is just a classic case of how we all hear differently and why we all like different things because of how we hear differently.

 

[puroagave]

for those of us that didnt attend, indulge us. rather than mention the bad how about the good:

-best system in the low to mid five-figure price category
-best component or brand you never heard before
-best system in the no holds barred category
-best demo music

 

[mep]

for those of us that didnt attend, indulge us. rather than mention the bad how about the good:

I'll give it a whirl:

-best system in the low to mid five-figure price category

No doubt it would be the ARC Ref 5SE, CD-8, Ref 75, and Nola KO speakers.

-best component or brand you never heard before

No doubt it was the Veloce preamp and power amps or was it the Doshi electronics? Seriously, they were both very good. For a bargain price for a complete system, nothing came close to the MC electronics. They offered a complete system for a special show price of $8900. This included an integrated amp, a CD player, and a pair of speakers. Most of you are aware the MC company was started by the man who founded MBL and the styling similarity is immediately obvious.

-best system in the no holds barred category

For me, it was the MBL system. I know some others fell under the FMA spell, but they can have that system. I would choose MBL any day of the week. And that is both for sound quality and build quality. The build quality of MBL is on another planet compared to FMA. I thought the sound quality was too.

-best demo music

For me, it was the CD that Myles brought from the Fairfield Four. The cut "Roll Jordan Roll" is just exceptional as a demo piece. It never failed to drop jaws in any room we were in.

 

[chrisr]

Rob, at the risk of sounding like a fanboy, I'd put the Evolution Acoustics room in all 4 categories. I had never heard them before the show and thought it was the best room -- no need to go to contenders for the no holds bar category if the rooms didn't sound as good as the EA room. They also had the best demo music - 2xDSD Led Zeppelin and Bob Marley, plus Hugh Masakela on master tape - amazing. I also liked the Doshi gear in the low/mid price category that I've never heard before. After hearing FMA and MBL, I would listen to these again as contenders for no holds barred system.

 

[marty]

Luke Manley probably didn’t design the VTL amps, but he is responsible for their design and I’m quite sure if Luke felt that KT-88s smoked the sound of 6550s that Luke would have used KT-88s in his amp.

I think this is just a classic case of how we all hear differently and why we all like different things because of how we hear differently.

I'm certain we all hear things relatively differently and that's why there's audio chocolate, vanilla and strawberry audio gear, so to speak. But I don't think Luke disagrees about the KT-88 performance over the 6550 in the mids and highs. He does however believe for a full range tube, from bottom to top tube overall, he prefers the 6550 overall. The folks are ARC feel the same way, and this is because of the bass slam of the 6550s. Again, keep in mind that tube choice is application specific. I'm willing to sacrifice bass for mid/high sweetness because I supplement my speakers with Gotham subs, so the KT88/6550 trade off works for my specific needs. I've posted on my KT88 preferences elsewhere, but my overall preference are the Gold Lions, although many of the Shunguangs have better mid bass/deep bass.

 

[mep]

In terms of bass slam from the 6550/KT-88 family, I would put the original real-deal Gold Lion (and their British cousins) KT-88s at the top of the heap. They seem to bring out another half-octave of bass compared to the rest of the 6550/KT-88 pretenders and contenders. And having said that, if you haven’t heard the KT-120 tubes yet, I think they are king of the hill in the bass department for tubes.

 

[marty]

Thanks mep. I haven't tried the KT-120 tubes in my Siegfrieds yet because Luke hasn't officially given them his approval as a plug and play substitute. I'd certainly welcome the thoughts of anyone who has done so in VTL equipment.

 

[arnies]

For me, it was the CD that Myles brought from the Fairfield Four. The cut "Roll Jordan Roll" is just exceptional as a demo piece. It never failed to drop jaws in any room we were in.

Mep, that is a great cut. If you have not heard the CD - I Couldn't Hear Nobody Pray - by the Fairfield Four - two cuts are exceptional in my opinion - "These Bones" and "Get Away Jordan". People usually stop what they are doing to listen especially when you start These Bones.

 

[marty]

i went to the FMA-Venture room once each day and listened. i liked it but it never really connected with me. i heard a number of familiar recordings that i have in the room.

Mike, I know you will want to kill me for saying this, but when I first went into the FM/Venture room, I stood up to leave after 30 seconds. That's when they switched from LP to computer source and voila, it was a total different ball game. I think, as you've said before, what we have here is yet another unfortunate example of a table set-up that did not live up to its potential. Among the pieces I heard, the Weavers at Carnegie Hall knocked me out with the same clarity and soundstage I get on my LP rig at home. I told them they should pack up their turntable and stick to CD and computer sources for the rest of the show. I think that's why there was a hit man following me around from room to room after that.......

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike, I know you will want to kill me for saying this, but when I first went into the FM/Venture room, I stood up to leave after 30 seconds. That's when they switched from LP to computer source and voila, it was a total different ball game. I think, as you've said before, what we have here is yet another unfortunate example of a table set-up that did not live up to its potential. Among the pieces I heard, the Weavers at Carnegie Hall knocked me out with the same clarity and soundstage I get on my LP rig at home. I told them they should pack up their turntable and stick to CD and computer sources for the rest of the show. I think that's why there was a hit man following me around from room to room after that.......

Marty,

i have a hunch that you might be confusing the FMA-Venture room with the Lanche-Yipsalon room right next door since the FMA-Venture room did not have a turntable.

as far as the Lanche-Yipsalon room; i also went into that room each day and i had the opposite experience myself; i could not connect with the digital but the last day a guy brought his own classical Lp pressing that they were playing and i liked it.

with those plasma tweeters on the Lanshe it seemed some music revealed a lack of coherence, and other music not as much. it's tough to integrate those plasma tweeters with any other driver type.

it all comes down to software sometimes; which trumps almost everything else.

and please don't feel to apologize regarding your perception of particular tt's and Lps, it's a crap shoot pretty much.

 

[djanggo]

I'm surprised in the FMA room they are still using FMA's bottom-line Pre 245 for a show of this magnitude. Could be logistics issue, for they, I assumed, should very well have known that by a simple swap of just the Pre alone in that system to say the 266mkII/268 could have catapulted the sound quality by a mile.. Well, at least 3-4 notches up, believe me, not subtle. Anyhow, it's done, glad that even so, they managed quite a great showing. Congrats Audio Limits!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I'm surprised in the FMA room they are still using FMA's bottom-line Pre 245 for a show of this magnitude. Could be logistics issue, for they, I assumed, should very well have known that by a simple swap of just the Pre alone in that system to say the 266mkII/268 could have catapulted the sound quality by a mile.. Well, at least 3-4 notches up, believe me, not subtle. Anyhow, it's done, glad that even so, they managed quite a great showing. Congrats Audio Limits!

how many dealers are going to be able to have an over $100k preamp on hand?

likely none.

 

[FrantzM]

I wasn't at the show ... I find it curious that much is said about FMA and not much about the Venture speakers ... I would think that speakers account for most of the perceived performance ... but that just me.

I find Marty comments about digital interesting ...

Steve about your comment on good sounding sub $2K DAC.. Any brand that caught your attention?

 

[audioarcher]

I found the YG Acoustics room with the Veloce gear to sound better/warmer than last year too. I think that room needed a little more meat on the bones though.

FM/Venture room was good but did not particularly move me.

I was expecting the Lanche/ Ypsilon room to sound better. At one point I heard the amps running out of gas. It was a very large room and could have used some more power I think.