The Digital Director - A new MSB product improving everything from the source to the output

[pleroma]

For USB only it might be interesting to compare a very good USB reclocker like Ideon Absolute Time vs DD (both with ProUSB and the same MSB DAC)

Matt

Another thought. I was advocating a Pro USB PCIe card, for a fiber-only/ISL connection from server to DAC. Pink Faun produced such a card a month or so ago, but their implementation was limited.

 

[Armsan]

At least until the release of Pro USB, their premise has been that they can engineer their products such that the server doesn't matter. I think dCS was the same way (or else why would they demo their DACs with a MacBook?). Thanks to Taiko, and others, we can now definitively say it does. Late last year Jonathan said he was going to try out the Extreme, so at this point I wouldn't presume to speak for them (though we still see this thinking of equalizing the inputs).

Totally agree. That particular assumption MSB didn’t fulfill. I owned and used various servers with the Select, DIY, Pink Faun AV Streamer, Antipodes, Pink Faun 2.16x and now the Extreme. All made a difference in a growing process.

 

[Armsan]

As a fellow MSB and Taiko owner, it will be really interesting to hear your experience. After all, the DD is a significant investment so hopefully it bears fruit. I’m also conscious that Taiko have some exciting developments in the wings which could play a part in the overall direction I take. What sort of timing have MSB given you?

I don’t know yet but don’t expect to have it before October.

 

[Armsan]

Sorry I don't agree with you on this one. I have never heard MSB or dCS say the server doesn't matter. I don't think I have heard that from anyone. Now maybe it is just me but I haven't heard that. I have listened to MSB and dCS using all kinds of front end units. I would think DAC manufactures wouldn't get into what server./streamer one needs to use. Again maybe it is just me.

Understand and agree but in Munich, MSB used “only“ a modified Roon Rock, I think it’s the name of Roon’s server. Modified, because the output was already in fiber that went directly into the DD.

 

[Armsan]

If the Quadrate USB is not using the power supply from the DD for reclocking, then which USB module or digital input is using the DD's power supply for reclocking, as stated by MSB (quote from MSB posted by @pleroma ):

"The level of improvement purely through the DD isolation is significant over the Pro USB. With its own power supplies (instead of the computer power supplies) the signal is able to be reclocked with much lower jitter. We tested just this aspect without the processing enabled and it was significant. Once you add the processing, the gap is even further.

I just shared with you what I was told. The statement of MSB it’s not incompatible with this information because the reclocking process happens in the “heart“ of the DD, not into the Quadrate USB module, so yes for the reclocking and other future processing is the PSU of the DD which is used. Some DACs, not the case of the MSB ones, don’t need power from the servers, and with those one can use USB cables without the power leads enabled. (Sorry for my bad english).

 

[Ron Resnick]

Totally agree. That particular assumption MSB didn’t fulfill. I owned and used various servers with the Select, DIY, Pink Faun AV Streamer, Antipodes, Pink Faun 2.16x and now the Extreme. All made a difference in a growing process.

Out of all of these streamers which did you find to sound the most musical and analog-like with the Select?

 

[Armsan]

Out of all of these streamers which did you find to sound the most musical and analog-like with the Select?

Undoubtedly the Extreme. I did my path over the years and the order of the servers I mentioned, rewarded me with a growing sense of ease, quietness and life/analog-like fullfilment.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Undoubtedly the Extreme. I did my path over the years and the order of the servers I mentioned, rewarded me with a growing sense of ease, quietness and life/analog-like fullfilment.

Thank you!

 

[Easy Gliders]

Undoubtedly the Extreme. I did my path over the years and the order of the servers I mentioned, rewarded me with a growing sense of ease, quietness and life/analog-like fullfilment.

Are you using only the Pro USB-ISL interface with your Select II DAC with all those servers?

 

[Easy Gliders]

I just shared with you what I was told. The statement of MSB it’s not incompatible with this information because the reclocking process happens in the “heart“ of the DD, not into the Quadrate USB module, so yes for the reclocking and other future processing is the PSU of the DD which is used. Some DACs, not the case of the MSB ones, don’t need power from the servers, and with those one can use USB cables without the power leads enabled. (Sorry for my bad english).

Thanks for your replies and clarification or information. That means that the signal from all the different digital input modules in the DD (including the Pro USB-ISL input) will be reclocked by the DD using the PSU in the DD. It would be interesting to know whether the original signal going into the Pro USB module has already been reclocked and synchronised by the Pro USB module using the DAC's Femto 33 clock before going into the Pro ISL input in the DD. If the signal has been already been reclocked before going into the DD, that means this optical signal will be reclocked again in the DD using the clock in the DAC? I presume the DD has no clock by itself? That means if you are using the Pro USB-ISL interface method with the DD and DAC, there would be at least double signal conversions and reclocking! With all these digital signal conversions and reclocking, particularly with the Pro USB-ISL interface with the DD, one would wonder how much differences there will be with the USB output signal from a very expensive Server? There will be some differences, but how much? Does it justify the costs? Is it better or just different?

 

[MarkusBarkus]

one would wonder how much differences there will be with the USB output signal from a very expensive Server?

...certainly that is what I am wondering. Taiko Extreme with the upgraded USB card, Shunyata Omega USB cable into the ProISL/USB device to isolate server and dac. What the heck else am I suppose to do for good hygiene?

Taiko and Reference dac on battery power, is it all-the-way there? Juicy thread here, guys. Thank you.

 

[bryans]

Understand and agree but in Munich, MSB used “only“ a modified Roon Rock, I think it’s the name of Roon’s server. Modified, because the output was already in fiber that went directly into the DD.

MSB using a modified Roon Rock at Munich doesn't mean they haven't used/tested other servers. The first MSB Reference I ever heard was using an Aurender W20. The MSB rep was pretty excited about the combination. He actually wanted me to pair the two together but I wasn't in the server market at that time.

 

[Easy Gliders]

MSB using a modified Roon Rock at Munich doesn't mean they haven't used/tested other servers. The first MSB Reference I ever heard was using an Aurender W20. The MSB rep was pretty excited about the combination. He actually wanted me to pair the two together but I wasn't in the server market at that time.

What digital output from the Aurender W20 was used with the MSB Reference? The USB output to a Pro USB-ISL interface?
If MSB is "only" using a Roon ROCK output to the DD, that tells alot about their confidence on the Roon ROCK as a server?

 

[pleroma]

Totally agree. That particular assumption MSB didn’t fulfill. I owned and used various servers with the Select, DIY, Pink Faun AV Streamer, Antipodes, Pink Faun 2.16x and now the Extreme. All made a difference in a growing process.

I don't have a problem with other opinions here. We're all just speculating, with great interest, about a new product that isn't out yet. I did receive a PM last night from another audiophile who said he was under the same impression about MSB.

I think it was significant that MSB said they bifurcated the test, and documented improvement from the fourth chassis with and without the new processing. So perhaps the big question for those without a reference-level server is, which is the better $30k upgrade, server or DD? I can't answer that now. I'm still trying to figure out how to get the D'Ag upgrade into my budget.

 

[bryans]

What digital output from the Aurender W20 was used with the MSB Reference? The USB output to a Pro USB-ISL interface?
If MSB is "only" using a Roon ROCK output to the DD, that tells alot about their confidence on the Roon ROCK as a server?

I believe it was AES/EBU and they also had it connected via the clock.

I have no doubt that one can use a Roon ROCK or just about anything into the DD or MSB. They just need to use the correct digital input. When I was demoing DACs I used a Roon Nucleus+ and loved it enough to purchase a MSB.

 

[Armsan]

Are you using only the Pro USB-ISL interface with your Select II DAC with all those servers?

I only have one server, the Extreme. To afford the next, I must sell the previous one

 

[pleroma]

I believe it was AES/EBU and they also had it connected via the clock.

I have no doubt that one can use a Roon ROCK or just about anything into the DD or MSB. They just need to use the correct digital input. When I was demoing DACs I used a Roon Nucleus+ and loved it enough to purchase a MSB.

I loved my MSB with a DIY server on a cheap SMPS with an Ethernet output. Shortly after that I know Mike Bovaird became an Aurender dealer, and it took some persuading to get him to try the Extreme.

 

[Armsan]

Thanks for your replies and clarification or information. That means that the signal from all the different digital input modules in the DD (including the Pro USB-ISL input) will be reclocked by the DD using the PSU in the DD. It would be interesting to know whether the original signal going into the Pro USB module has already been reclocked and synchronised by the Pro USB module using the DAC's Femto 33 clock before going into the Pro ISL input in the DD. If the signal has been already been reclocked before going into the DD, that means this optical signal will be reclocked again in the DD using the clock in the DAC? I presume the DD has no clock by itself? That means if you are using the Pro USB-ISL interface method with the DD and DAC, there would be at least double signal conversions and reclocking! With all these digital signal conversions and reclocking, particularly with the Pro USB-ISL interface with the DD, one would wonder how much differences there will be with the USB output signal from a very expensive Server? There will be some differences, but how much? Does it justify the costs? Is it better or just different?

Sorry Easy Gliders, I don't know enough to clarify your thoughts/doubts. All we all know is that the Extreme doesn´t reclock. The MSB DAC doesn´t reclock either. So, for me there will be one reclocking stage in the DD. Please note that the Pro USB it's not a reclocker, just a USB/fiber converter/isolater.

 

[pleroma]

The MSB DAC doesn´t reclock either.

Sure about that? I spent a lot of money on a clock upgrade for mine.

 

[Easy Gliders]

Sorry Easy Gliders, I don't know enough to clarify your thoughts/doubts. All we all know is that the Extreme doesn´t reclock. The MSB DAC doesn´t reclock either. So, for me there will be one reclocking stage in the DD. Please note that the Pro USB it's not a reclocker, just a USB/fiber converter/isolater.

Yes, the Pro USB is not a reclocker. But it uses the DAC's clock to reclock and synchronise the signal during the conversion from USB to fiber signal. Please refer to MSB website: https://www.msbtechnology.com/dacs/prousb/

• Uses the audio clock from the DAC

The reclocked and synchronised fiber signal is then transmitted to the ProISL module

• Uses the ProISL interface with error correction and detection

So the USB signal is already reclocked to the DAC's clock through the Pro USB-ISL modules.