The Ethos- one superb value in electrostats!

[Big Dog RJ]

Greetings music enthusiasts, audiophiles and electrostatic lovers- especially Martin Logan owners.

That time has come, and I thought it would not happen so soon. I have finally parted with my Quads, and closed the deal for a brand new pair of Ethos. The speakers arrive on Monday!

From the very first note and basically the third serious audition with the Ethos, I knew straight away that this was the full sound I was looking for. My Quads served well (apart from the reliability issues...) and they delivered many hours/ years of musical bliss. I thought that was going to be the end of the road BUT when I seriously spent more time with the Ethos, it just left me in awe. It was as if someone had taken a veil or cloth off their face and mouths and started to sing, belt out dynamics of tonal accuracy and a very high level of transparency that the Quads are not capable of.

Apart from the loudness factor, which I will never use at that level, it is a solid build! Using ML's latest X-stat technology with vacuum bonding air frames, the voltage tolerances are none that I have ever experienced. I am extremely grateful for all the valuable advice given in reference to stats (their pros & cons) and especially to Kostas for his outstanding demonstration of the CLX's. Now I can begin to fully understand the ML philosophy and its quest for music purity.

Not only was the speaker far ahead in terms of ruggedness and construction but also superb value! It was less than half of what I paid for the Quads, and this goes to say that expensive necessarily doesn't mean better. I was nearly looking at the MG3.7i but I think this is one of those very special experiences one could possibly have in your home and one that delivers absolute value with a true refinement in sound.

I truly hope the road ends here, as I will not be able to afford the CLX's due to other commitments & priorities. Apart from that, I don't think I would ever need the CLX's as the Ethos gives me all that is required and plenty more in the Low frequency, allowing it to be matched according to room characteristics. Although a FR stat would be the perfect line source, I will only dream for now...

Might as well sit back and enjoy the music!
Cheers to all, RJ

 

[Argonaut]

Congratulations RJ, I wish you joy of your new transducers
You make a germane point in commenting upon the benefit of spending reasonable time adjusting to and appreciating the ML's house presentation. How often have ML's been disregarded based upon a hasty audition, often under non optimised conditions?

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes sir, you can say that again!

I am also in that guilty party- previously my experiences with ML have always been thought of as sounding "thin" in the mids & top bass, again not optimally matched with the right amplification nor good quality neutral sounding source and ancillary gear. It all makes a huge difference and is VERY apparent on ML's.

Believe me the departing from Quad was certainly not an easy one. The Quad ESL will always remain as my all time favourite, for the joys and pains it has caused, and the use of Quad stats for over 2 decades, doesn't make parting with that magical midrange an easy decision.

During the third and final audition of the Ethos, I threw everything possible at it- from George Benson, to Diana Krall's Christmas tunes, played an awful lot of piano, bass, double bass and electronic bass (which I don't even listen to), I even played a very old recording of Carmen Mcrae sings Alfie, wow! Then the final verdict was the Pat Methiney, What it's all about album that sealed the deal. The opening tracks of those solo strings were so real, life like and full of energy that I had not experienced before, I was in total awe as to how they could possibly offer the Ethos at that price point! It's just too good to be true!

Then the dealer chap told me that this line, referred to as the ML " Reserve Line" will continue, however the top end Reference line, such as the Renaissance, Expression, Impression series will retail for far higher. He hasn't placed any orders for these as yet, since he's still finishing off stock on the Reserve line up, including the last pair of CLX's in black finish. As tempting as they were, I had to remember the good wife's words of wisdom, I haven't reached that level of reward just yet, hence harder work is required from my part, especially the family priorities. Hence the CLX can wait!

The Ethos is of par excellence in every regard, and I must say that the Theos was equally impressive at an even lower price! The only draw back being that you cannot adjust bass levels, and this plays an important role in room interaction, especially when the Theos has a passive bass driver with a port enclosure underneath the speaker. Actually the Theos was my initial choice but after careful listening and gauging the dynamics vs the efficiency of active bass, it seemed to be a far better match with my humble CAV45.

I think overall, apart from the CAV45, this also has been my second BEST purchase in my history of audio systems, and now I can finally listen sit back that there is a dedicated support service for these stats, and that is VERY important to me.

I am glad you were able to get in touch with ML tech service, and they have given you the green light, and this does not void the warranty or future service. Perhaps they would allow this for experienced users, hence probably the reason why they don't want to openly state this in the manual... I'm thinking.
Anyway, let us know what your findings are, as this is a very interesting feature of the CLX's.

Cheers mate and thanks for the support, I am now a happily married man to ML- apart from the good wife!
RJ

 

[Big Dog RJ]

I believe the ML Ethos will revive my listening experience to what I was looking for in the long term. I thought I might as well do this change over since the Quads are in perfect working condition. The Quads will always be my all time favourite speaker. My biggest concern is that after it was founded and designed by a legend, Peter Walker, that design of the basic structure was only improved upon since late 2005. The new 2905 series was introduced after the 989 series. Moving production to China was not a good move. It not only made the reliability factor a question but the chaps producing have no idea of what a Quad electrostat is all about. Its design features, the special dispersion pattern and how exactly these can be repaired and fully refurbished to sound really good, they are clueless. The materials they use and the quality glues, plus workmanship is shocking, especially for a stat speaker that costs twice as much as the Ethos- you cannot even compare the build quality!

I have taken apart the Quad upto its transformers, with the help of John, and what we saw in there was not very satisfactory at their price point. I still have one of the mains transformers just to keep as a comparison for QC, it looks and feels like a toy. I was nearly in tears when I held it in my palm, and the amount of money Quad service charges for this small item. The same trasnformer built to exact standards with Aus & UK parts is not even comparable!

Even though Quad may have very serious reliability issues, the service companies who receive these stats for service should be able to "win" back the customer by providing exceptional service. Sadly this is not the case, they just don't care. It's almost as if they want to shut down the service and repell the customer. The customer keeps coming back because they are the ones who are keen and eager to see that their Quads are working again!

I have another good friend who also changed over from his Quads to ML's. His pair was under warranty and had multiple panel failures. Brand new panels replaced from the Quad factory but are faulty! It has taken now over 5 months to get his speakers working, still they cannot seem to figure what's wrong. If I was this chap, I would have contacted John Hall and done a full refurbish with his panels, that are far more reliable and built with genuine Australian and British parts, not Chinese standard. I have nothing against the Chinese production, I think they are very hard working people with long term goals and aspirations BUT they are a long way off when it comes to "quality standards."

Although the ML's are still built in North America and some models in Canada, they also have the other smaller series being manufactured in China. All of these facilities are of the highest standards set by ML, and they swear by their quality control. The ML company is owned by Paradigm, and they make the same speakers and gear as Anthem in the same factory. I have a known contact who happens to also be an audio dealer, who was planning on taking up the ML stat line for his dealership. They were invited by Paradigm to visit the factory, and he now understands how these are made and the some of the best quality control standards he has ever seen for an audio brand of companies. That was another reason for my assurance in ML.

I am very pleased with this new purchase and know it will last a lifetime, plus ML's have been around in Australia for quite a while, and they have never had any issues compared to what I have experienced with Quad's service. The ML dealers also deliver and set up your speakers, to make sure that they delivered them in perfect working condition, this is another standard set by ML. It was a fairly sad parting from Quad, that I still do love dearly but when the time is right, you just have to make that move.

I know they will go towards a good home, where someone who can tolerate the service issues will find them quite suitable to retain. I will also provide the contact for John Hall who will continue to look after them during his special 3 year warranty plus 5 year panel replacement at no charge.
I don't want to just dump the Quads with someone and hope for the best. I do actually want that person to enjoy their Quads for what they're worth and will continue to support this person to best of our ability. Afterall, they are truly great stat designs.

Wish IAG, and Quad service had similar ethics, perhaps they would start winning back customers...
Cheers to all,
RJ

 

[brad225]

Congratulation Big Dog, I missed your announcement thread. I'm sure you will enjoy them.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Cheers mate.

Yes, no doubt I will. My Ethos arrive tomorrow.

The CAV45 is a perfect match for "active" bass type panels. I believe the bass is controlled to perfection with the speed of the panel using two bass drivers of 8" in diameter, allowing them to respond with speed and accuracy. The CAV45 rated at 45 w/ch is more than plenty to drive the ML panels. It can not only drive and control them/control, plus responds effortlessly but also the musicality and dynamism from the panels is superb! We also tried Prima Luna and Divaliet amps, all were equally great sounding. Therefore, the level of realism is not an issue with ML's hybrid designs, the choice of amplification is only suited towards the panels, hence you can select the type of sound you wish for. Whereas the bass is just in full control with its dedicated amplifier.

I plan to run the Ethos in for at least 72 hours as the manual states, and then do an actual comparison with the Quads. In the demo it was just breath taking, a far higher level of detail, resolution, speed and dynamism with tremendous impact. I just love the new "X stat" panels and their vacuum bonding process, which is far stronger than welding. Leaves me in awe for the given price point!

I also think they did a very cleaver move with their new "Air Frame" technology, more rigid than standard steel, using special aluminium alloys, these panels are thinner and stiffer, plus allows more signal rigidness when transferring through the panel. Certainly weighs less and is far more secure in holding the clear spars. Visually stunning, you can see right through the panels than ever before, and I do love how they absolutely disappear when music is playing.

I personally think active bass is very critical as to not over-energise the room. During all the demo's I turned down the bass controls to -2, this was the most perfect bass to panel integration for that demo room. Therefore, this would be a critical factor to adjust in your own listening room, and this is a very important piece of the puzzle to get that bass to panel integration just perfect. Once you're got this right, as CJ says, "it just sounds right!"

Cheers, and I will post an update in due course.
Big woof! RJ

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Well it looks like I took the simplest approach, keeping perspectives in mind that more expensive is necessarily not better, and to find I was rewarded in more than many ways!

The Ethos arrived at 11am sharp, I must say packing the Quads, although took nearly a good hour, I was feeling a bit sad to see the old big fellow out the door. The chappy had to make two trips, since his van was just able to handle the pair of ML’s but not the Quads. Anyway, as soon as he took off on that first trip, I lifted the Ethos boxes single handed and placed them in the room. I thought all those gym workouts certainly paid off, to only learn the Ethos is less than half the weight of the Quads, so I stopped flexing in the mirror.

During unpacking, I found the workmanship and quality to be impeccable. Each speaker had a QC certificate/card attached to the speaker terminals, with the initials of a techie, this is certainly something I was not expecting at this price point!
I had previously read the entire manual the night before, so I was fully versed with setting up, level controls and what the LED’s stand for. It has clever protection circuitry, along with a genuine standby mode that repels dust when not in use. Cloths and plastic wrap included, again something not expected at this price. Durable double box with well supported foam braces, a solid packing design in every regard. Easy to set up and place, I am used to 22kg bicep curls; therefore a speaker of a total weight of 19kg was like lifting a wafer. I was wondering how this fairly light speaker is capable of delivering stunning bass as they claim... Since I’m used to Infinities, Maggies, Wilsons, and the Quads, all required at least two people to handle.
Got the set up right, did the spike placements, turned on the system and biased the output tubes on the CAV45 EL34's- and WOW! What a blast!

What an enjoyment from the first note, I actually cried! Tears started flowing not only because I knew for sure I had purchased something of immense value but a speaker system that delivers every musical detail one could ask for, and superbly balanced with its active bass. The CAV45 rated at 45w/ch was cruising in heaven! The level on the volume control was far less compared to driving Quads full range. The mids and highs were so smooth, and the integration of the bass was seamless after a few adjustments.

I have placed the Ethos about 5ft away from the front wall, 2ft from the sides and 8ft apart. Listening position is about 12ft but I have toed them in fairly good which provides solid imagining with a floating soundstage that is spectacular! Since the panel starts a fair bit off the ground, the level of the soundstage is very noticeable and grabs your attention with superb focus and realistic scale. I have heard systems that offer far more thump and a wider sound-stage but this makes the singers look like they have 10ft wide mouths! All else seems a bit over exaggerated. I also found the Quads and Ethos to have very realistic levels in scale and definition.

Played a couple tracks of Larry Carlton, Bob James, Fourplay and Robben Ford, my golly! I nearly took off the sofa. The impact and realism is remarkable! The level of resolution from the CAV45 is very good on the Quads, and I thought this was at its best but the Ethos takes this to another league. Absolutely effortless transient response, speed, linearity and naturalness are delivered with sheer musicality. Forget the levels of finesse, which is plenty, just the resolution and detail is so remarkable that these ML’s do actually disappear from your room altogether. My daughter came home from school and couldn’t quite place the sound, asked me where’s the music coming from? She didn’t realize the panels until she actually saw the bass driver at the bottom.

After a few more hours of running in various CD’s & SACD’s, which I am starting to enjoy once again on many levels, around 8pm I started with the serious stuff on LP. Played the usual Patricia Barber, D Krall and Nat Cole, all I can say is that this certainly wasn’t the usual performance. This was one of the most transparent, awe inspiring experiences I have ever encountered in my home system. The smooth tones of Nat Cole, and his trio was simply superb! All musicians were in their zone doing their thing and when Nat kicks in with his vocals and piano, it’s almost as if you can literally see him getting ready to play...

Patricia Barber on MoFi- (plays Cole Porter mix)- was another whole new experience for me. The Quads still had all these details and finesse no doubt, it’s just that the Ethos takes the overall performance and places it on a higher pedestal. It sort of elevates the whole performance to a level of realism that is utterly captivating. On one of these tracks, Patricia Barber sings about Mrs. Otis- the lyrics go- as this lady wakes up one day and finds her man missing. She hunts him down and shoots him dead. She is then thrown in jail, and the mob picks her up and drags her out of jail. They hang her on the old willow tree and just before she dies, she lifts her head up high, and cries “ Mrs Otis regrets she won’t be able to lunch today...” this tune and lyrics are so spooky on the Ethos, you can actually see this lady being tied up and crying that very verse- Awesome resolution!

On D Krall’s (Love Scenes)- the opening tracks on double bass is totally articulate and absolutely linear. No distortion, no boom, pure thick thumps of strong accurate double bass with speed. I guess the active drivers play an important role here, plus the passive driver does its job when called for. The drop and thud in bass is very apparent when the track /musical passage requires it, you will feel it!

I just thought I’d throw in an old CD of Norah Jones (chasing pirates). Another level of bass I had not experienced before, although quite familiar with. It was very natural, full of detail and plenty of weight to it. Played the usual Pat Methiney & Charlie Hayden (under the Missouri Sky) superb level of detail in the strings, grabs your attention to follow the actual flow and the way they play. You can follow each and every finger movement along the strings, and not just the “there in front of you” mode that all high end systems would manage to do.

Apart from the extended highs that go far beyond the Quads would ever produce, and the bass being phenomenal; an equally phenomenal feature of these ML’s is their mid-band. An absolute pleasure to experience! What beautiful music it produces in the midrange. It is neither too thin nor too bright as I had found in previous ML stats dating back to the early 90’s. The mid range is so transparent and linear; it can play from utterly soft to blistering loud in the blink of an eye. I guess the new Air Frame technology helps to transfer this speed and sheer energy, keeping the musicality in focus without losing anything in tonal accuracy regardless of volume.

I can just go on forever but I must close this as I am getting very distracted whiles music is playing in the background. All I can say is with the Ethos and perhaps other active ML hybrids, they do not require massive levels of amplification to sound their best. I have only heard the tip of the iceberg and a level of performance at the surface level because after a few weeks/months of posting this- it only gets better!

This is no doubt one of the BEST purchases (apart from the CAV45) that I have ever made in my entire audio journey of craziness. And I dedicate this post to my dear good friend, Mr Kostas because without his invite to audition the CLX’s, I would have never experienced the new line of Martin Logan. Thanks Kostas, and thanks to other fellow ML owners and enthusiasts, you just made my day!
Cheers, big woof! RJ

 

[Argonaut]

Pleased for you RJ, the performance of your panels will improve further with a few more hours on the clock.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Congratulations RJ, glad you are over the moon happy with your new MLs, fun story (loved the weightlifting exercise) and a happy ending. Enjoy the music.

 

[analog brother]

congrats!
and yes, the best is yet to come with more hours.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Cheers gentlemen, and thanks for the notes. Yes, the Ethos are slowly breaking in, infact very slowly since I had to head off to work today on another night shift. So I managed to get just a few more hours on them this arvo. Plan to have a longer lsiten tomorrow as I only start a bit later, should a good one. I am now on the search for some power cords since the standard ones are a bit cheapish looking. Perhaps better quality will benefit, don't want to go overboard here, just something decent and neutral.

Looks like D Trump is at the helm now, and he pledges that he will be the president for all Americans!- in that case I pledge that Martin Logans be the speakers for all Americans and Audiophiles... just saying anything is possible!
Cheers mate, RJ

 

[bonzo75]

Congrats. They will take like 300 hours to break in though.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

300 hours! Oh great, this is going to take awfully longer than I anticipated.

According to the owner's manual- it states only 72 hrs. They further state that this is mainly for cross over components, and the bass drivers, stating that the panels will break in at a similar period along with the active bass. 300 hrs! I hardly get to listen to them for two hours straight mate.

Okay if you say so...
Thanks mate, RJ

 

[bonzo75]

300 hours! Oh great, this is going to take awfully longer than I anticipated.

According to the owner's manual- it states only 72 hrs. They further state that this is mainly for cross over components, and the bass drivers, stating that the panels will break in at a similar period along with the active bass. 300 hrs! I hardly get to listen to them for two hours straight mate.

Okay if you say so...
Thanks mate, RJ

Maybe 100, but after the bass and all breaks in, you will find new ways to make them sound better by changing positioning, so they will keep sounding better. The panels will also be more bright at the beginning.

 

[Argonaut]

300 hours! Oh great, this is going to take awfully longer than I anticipated.
RJ

It was my understanding the the latest panels require less break in hours than the previous iterations

 

[Big Dog RJ]

I certainly hope so. I was reading some of the other user manuals, and they all seem to state 72 hrs...

Anyway, I guess more the run in the better. Now over the past several days nearly a week now, they are beginning to improve dramatically. In fact the most significant improvement is the bass. I have turned it far down now to around -8. It was quite over-powering after awhile and I found the best room interaction so far is at this setting. Also, at -8, it seems to have a far more coherent integration with the panel, it sort of allows to panel to fly and move freely unhindered with excessive bass. The transients are superb and depth and imaging is far notch above what I previously had, very nicely settling in. Absolutely happy as!

Just a quick question to the seniors, since this is an active design and also a stat, being a hybrid- how does the stat panel charge? Does it have the same multiple transformers as Quads (3 transformers, 2 EHT and 1 Mains)? Or is this all connected through the main bass amplifier and then connected in parallel to the stators to charge, hence the 2sec delay after standby...

Interesting to know, and perhaps this is why it is not so heavy. Initially I would think that since there is a panel involved that requires constant stat charge, there should have been a separate AC power cord for the panel and a separate one for the amp, requiring two connections to the mains... but this would cause inconveniences down the line I guess.
RJ

 

[bonzo75]

Do you have it spiked to the floor, that helps the bass tremendously. You can also play with the azimuth - lean back, straight up, to see what your preference is

I actually found the Summits very good spiked to the auralex, as I had downward firing woofers, much better than to the floor or on granite

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Hey Bonzo, yes it is actually spiked to the floor. Have made many holes in the carpet, quite a few damages. I would have to redo the carpet when moving out in any case.

When I had the Quads the spikes were quite bigger and heavier. I have placed the Ethos fairly in the same spot as the Quads with little less angle inwards, followed the manuals recommendations and flash light method, seemed to help a lot! I remember you had the Summits, why are you planning on changing? What speakers are you thinking of and are these a far margin higher in performance compared to the Summits? Did you think of the new line up of ML's? or how about the CLX?

Always interesting to learn why people change speaker systems- sometimes they get bored with one particular sound, and others of course due to very significant reasons... Changing from Summits to something else will be interesting for me to know to see what's down the line in the future.

I have not heard the new ML line up but I am sure it is as superb and even better than their current line of hybrids.
Cheers mate, RJ

 

[bonzo75]

Hi like I said, the apogee duettas restored, for the medium term. The other great speaker if you want a cheap speaker, and small, is the Heco Direct which costs 1.5k euro used. It is 95 db and you can drive it with 10 to 25 watts SETs or your pass class A, first watt, etc.

They have a slightly bigger brother. The speaker might not look much but don't underestimate it, if you are struggling to make your dream budget and/or room size, it is excellent and lets you enjoy music easily. That said, I could have easily lived with the summits and valve amps, but I am more of an explorer where this hobby is concerned

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Okay now I remember, Apogee Duetta's, good choice.

I just wanted to know why and the reasons behind people leaving ML for something else; (leaving Quads, I can certainly understand). From stats to ribbons is quite a difference but I guess you're still sticking with panels. I started with Quad stats, then used ML in between for a little while until they sort of perished in humid climates, similar to Quads, then went onto ribbons (maggies), then changed countries- back to Quads and now finally back to ML, what a great journey!

Whereas I am concerned, the train stops here mate! I am extremely happy with the Ethos and don't see any foreseeable upgrades unless it was the CLX for me. That will always be my reference point. The CLX is the true embodiment of "natural" sound reproduction. The Ethos also gives me that overall satisfaction, and partnered with the CJ CAV45, I really couldn't ask for anything more.

Thanks for recommending the Auralex by the way. The Australian importer happens to be located across few blocks. I am going to place an order on the Iso-tone TT platform, and this should minimise vibrations further. Until we relocate residence, I will not be able to have a dedicated room or ideal set up for the system. I think for the time being the IsoTone will do quite well. Another factor is since I don't listen to music that loud, I can adjust the bass levels more freely, allowing the panel to do most of the work.

The Auralex were also reasonably priced, so I will start with the TT platform and then onto the speakers Mod pads later on.
Cheers mate and have a good one,
RJ