The Grid Protector, the EMI Protector and The Allocator By Schnerzinger-In My System and I’m Blown Away

[luca.pelliccioli]

Hmmm... I wonder if there any health concerns with these type of devices.

Radiation: Health risks of mobile phones and base stations

www.who.int

I totally agree and I previously asked the same question.

In my opinion, as a consumer, my right to know if a device does inject/transmit something in my room is legitimate by health safe. I’m not interested in secret proprietary technologies, rather in my health. I suppose these products must respect US and EU certifications by law.

I removed also WiFi in my room, both for sonic and health reasons.

I’ve never seen an amp or a diffuser with an antenna.

Don’t want to be rude, Steve but: What is it about the word health that you don’t understand?

This thread pushed me to contact the importer and ask him a demo, that we are scheduling but he wasn’t able himself to answer my question above. I was only hoping that WTB founders, as journalists or respected experts, who have direct access to the manufacturer and are describing how good this product sounds, can help us consumers to enlighten some aspects without technical or patent problematic revelations.

 

[Steve williams]

@luca.pelliccioli We'll Im a doctor, so you're' preaching to the choir here Luca

I think really this thread has gotten so off track that I feel like closing it because IMO some of the comments have become down right laughable

I get what everyone is saying. Bottom line is why don't you all tune out and go back to your own systems and enjoy the day. Life is too short if you are now worrying about what these things are transmitting . Better be careful because next hing you might be thinking some of what they are transmitting might be detrimental to your gonads. But hey, I have brass cajones so I ain't worried.

I removed also WiFi in my room, both for sonic and health reasons

I'm truly miffed at this one but heck, what do I know, as I a seeing green. munchkins rising through my room when these devices are on

 

[luca.pelliccioli]

Got it, I’ll stop asking more and sorry if this miffed you and/or others.

 

[Audioarts]

Wow, I never suspected these little devices would inspire so many comments and inquiries. All are well received!

The Dortmund Germany based company has been around since 2011 and the GridEMI products are but a small part of an extensive wire lineup which are well recognized and enjoyed by many globally.

With so many on the field for years now, along with countless positive testimonials and strong precedence, they represent what Steve is trying to convey about the quality of just simply enjoying what they do.

Our WBF friend and established reviewer, Myles Astor, has also experienced Schnerzinger in his own ZELLATON-Soulution system and has this to say: https://www.audionirvana.org/forum/myles-toy-shop/equipment-sneak-peaks/188115-schnerzinger-piccolo

 

[Synaxis]

I have no dog in this fight. I have neither heard nor plan to buy the device. I am going to share my personal observations from watching this and other threads on WBF that leave me shaking my head.

I'm going to say what I believe to be true in ALL INSTANCES for a personal, subjective, and opinion based hobby such as high end audio - especially when we all have different hearing abilities:

I used to be a skeptic on many subjects as I would believe the theoretical screaming from many on forums. Yes - I was a brainless sheeple like so many on forums are.

Then I got tired of being that way and decided to TRY for myself the taboo topics that the minority yet screaming-vocal-majority berated people about: cables, then digital cables (GASP!), then network devices, and recently vibration control.

In every instance I went in believing like the forums would have you believe- that it was all fake or useless, and in every instance I was stunned by what I heard.

I have a very simple philosophy: if we only rely on known science to explain things then that means you are calling my religious beliefs fake and it means you think that science can measure everything. Both statements of which I know to be 100% factually UNTRUE.

Steve - please correct me if I am wrong but we know love to be 100% real, yet there is no scientific or medical test in the world that can measure. Therefore by some that means love is fraud. Is that a true factual statement?

There is a VERY SIMPLE solution to topics such as these: try it for yourself.

If it works for you, great! If it doesn't, at least you now are speaking from experience rather than hiding behind a forum not actually knowing.

But history tells me many people (obviously not all) would rather argue that something doesn't work than actually educate themselves.

Does this product work? I have no idea. But I would certainly be smart enough to educate myself and try it first before being foolish and taking a stance one way or another.

* * * Please see my response to Ron below for clarification. Thank you Ron for letting me clarify my point. * * *

 

[Ron Resnick]

In every instance I went in believing like the forums would have you believe- that it was all fake or useless,

Respectfully, Michael, I think this unfairly overstates the point, at least as applied to the comments on this thread.

Neither I nor Pat nor Marty nor most others has suggested that this tweak, or any tweak, is "fake or useless." I think we are all quite agnostic.

It's possible to keep two independent inquiries running in our heads at the same time:

1) Do we hear a difference in the sound of our systems, and do we like that difference?

2) How does the device work?

I believe that inquiring minds can legitimately hold these two views at the same time. I believe these are separate questions. The answer to one is wholly independent from the answer to the other.

We can be interested in "what" as well as "how."

I was 12 years old when I first became involved in my first hobby -- amateur radio. So whenever I see an antenna sticking out of a high-end audio device it peaks my legacy radio/RF/antenna curiosity. I see an antenna on the device here, so it makes me curious to try to figure out what is going on. This design curiosity is completely separate from whether I hear a difference during Steve's demo.

I go in totally open-minded. Why do I go in totally open-minded? Because in this wacky hobby I have proven to myself numerous times that I hear sonic differences that cannot be explained. I am totally cool with that.

My personal view on the audio hobby side as a subjectivist, is that, as with Steve, all I care about ultimately is whether I hear a difference, and whether I like the difference. If I place an empty cardboard box in my room and if I hear a difference, and I like the difference, I'm sold! Ultimately I don't care how it does what it does. But I may be curious to wonder about it.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I'm going to say what I believe to be true in ALL INSTANCES for a personal, subjective, and opinion based hobby such as high end audio - especially when we all have different hearing abilities:

. . .

I have a very simple philosophy: if we only rely on known science to explain things then that means you are calling my religious beliefs fake and it means you think that science can measure everything. Both statements of which I know to be 100% factually UNTRUE.

. . .

There is a VERY SIMPLE solution to topics such as these: try it for yourself.

I agree 100.00% on each of these points.

 

[Steve williams]

My personal view on the audio hobby side as a subjectivist, is that, as with Steve, all I care about ultimately is whether I hear a difference, and whether I like the difference. I don't care if putting an empty cardboard box in my room changes the sound; if I hear a difference, and I like the difference, I'm sold!

I have an inquisitive mind as well Ron. I would suggest we all do. Bottom line for me is that asking and getting an answer is helpful but asking and not getting an answer isn’t wrong. Either I hear something good or I don’t. Then I ask myself is it something better or merely something different. IMO these devices are clearly something different. The clarity by which I now hear my system is so much better. Myles described his thoughts independent of mine but if you read both we came to the identical conclusion.

Finally I have no problem with Synaxis take on things. Of all the audio channels on You Tube his imo is the only one which remains free of bias and he always starts with an open mind. In the end I think we are all saying the same thing but some need to know why before they buy and others buy on a whim and the looks rather than the sound. To my ears these little devices were sent to get my impressions. After a few days in my system I bought them as they truly improved everything I heard.

 

[Synaxis]

Respectfully, Michael, I think this unfairly overstates the point, at least as applied to the comments on this thread.

Neither I nor Pat nor Marty nor most others has suggested that this tweak, or any tweak, is "fake or useless." I think we are all quite agnostic.

It's possible to keep two independent inquiries running in our heads at the same time:

1) Do we hear a difference in the sound of our systems, and do we like that difference?

2) How does the device work?

I believe that inquiring minds can legitimately hold these two views at the same time. I believe these are separate questions. The answer to one is wholly independent from the answer to the other.

We can be interested in "what" as well as "how."

I was 12 years old when I first became involved in my first hobby -- amateur radio. So whenever I see an antenna sticking out of a high-end audio device it peaks my legacy radio/RF/antenna curiosity. I see an antenna on the device here, so it makes me curious to try to figure out what is going on. This design curiosity is completely separate from whether I hear a difference during Steve's demo.

I go in totally open-minded. Why do I go in totally open-minded? Because in this wacky hobby I have proven to myself numerous times that I hear sonic differences that cannot be explained. I am totally cool with that.

My personal view on the audio hobby side as a subjectivist, is that, as with Steve, all I care about ultimately is whether I hear a difference, and whether I like the difference. If I place an empty cardboard box in my room and if I hear a difference, and I like the difference, I'm sold! Ultimately I don't care how it does what it does. But I may be curious to wonder about it.

Hi Ron - in re-reading it may not have come across as I meant it.

I meant generally on all forums, there are voices that always tell us that most everything we hear is fake then they themselves refuse to listen for themselves and then turns into attacking the poster. Those are the people I was talking about.

I am not saying being skeptical, inquisitive, or healthy debate is bad. It is all healthy and I think is a needed balance.

I literally just received a comment now on one of my videos calling me a liar and a "snake oil salesman" (which is funny as I don't sell anything) and they claimed all digital sounds the same as digital sound is ONLY about 1's and 0's and packets and nothing else. It is towards people like that poster I was referring. I don't even waste my time talking with people like that poster as it is a waste of time as they are closed-minded nit-wits who only want to argue.

I hope that helps clarify and thank you for giving me the opportunity to.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hi Ron - in re-reading it may not have come across as I meant it.

I meant generally on all forums, there are voices that always tell us that most everything we hear is fake then they themselves refuse to listen for themselves and then turns into attacking the poster. Those are the people I was talking about.

I am not saying being skeptical, inquisitive, or healthy debate is bad. It is all healthy and I think is a needed balance.

. . .

I hope that helps clarify and thank you for giving me the opportunity to.

Thank you very much for clarifying!

 

[pk_LA]

With all due respect, the only 'attacking' here has been that directed at the people asking questions.

Further, I have not seen any posts or commentary that impugn the device or those promoting it. There has been healthy intrigue and questions.

 

[Steve williams]

With all due respect, the only 'attacking' here has been that directed at the people asking questions.

Further, I have not seen any posts or commentary that impugn the device or those promoting it. There has been healthy intrigue and questions.

I guess I finally have to "sigh" ....from relief of course...

 

[Jazzjunkie]

I try to give input where I can:

To those who’d like know what goes on technically:
I fully understand and would like to know more myself. My impression from talking with them…it won’t happen. It’s high tech, but anyway it seems difficult to explain more but not tell too much. Guess we have to accept that. Most guesses we make how it works and why it works unpowered etc will probably be wrong and lead us nowhere. But not everything we don’t get explained is voodoo.

On/off buffering behavior:
As far as I know, the “cleaning” of the room (which is a certain part of every of those pieces with an antenna) and possibly also the cleaning in devices and circuits, seems to hold on to a degree for quite a while, and in case those units stay in the room, even if tilted to a side, antennas detached or plugs pulled out, still do a job to an extent. You just can fully restore the situation without them after you moved them out of the room and wait til the next day. Then you don’t want to listen to your setup anymore, as it’s sounds like hifi then, not like music in the room in comparison. But the more the whole setup is optimized with it, it just needs moving them away from their place or unplugging power, tilting antenna 90 degrees and much gets worse immediately.

Health:
No concern. In the opposite I heard, this technology is also used in a medical context for lowering HF radiation exposure to the living environment, which also gets better (not worse) with those hifi applications.

What I learned from all I experienced:
Any kind of HF noise and other radiation in the room and equipment seems to be the main enemy of realistic, palpable sound on high level. It reminds me a bit of discovering jitter as a main problem of digital signal processing. Anything like better CD drives, different DAC’s, better power supplies etc. did their job, but never got close to what was achieved with improving the jitter topics. And by the way, jitter also had to do with noise.

 

[Audioarts]

I try to give input where I can:

To those who’d like know what goes on technically:
I fully understand and would like to know more myself. My impression from talking with them…it won’t happen. It’s high tech, but anyway it seems difficult to explain more but not tell too much. Guess we have to accept that. Most guesses we make how it works and why it works unpowered etc will probably be wrong and lead us nowhere. But not everything we don’t get explained is voodoo.

On/off buffering behavior:
As far as I know, the “cleaning” of the room (which is a certain part of every of those pieces with an antenna) and possibly also the cleaning in devices and circuits, seems to hold on to a degree for quite a while, and in case those units stay in the room, even if tilted to a side, antennas detached or plugs pulled out, still do a job to an extent. You just can fully restore the situation without them after you moved them out of the room and wait til the next day. Then you don’t want to listen to your setup anymore, as it’s sounds like hifi then, not like music in the room in comparison. But the more the whole setup is optimized with it, it just needs moving them away from their place or unplugging power, tilting antenna 90 degrees and much gets worse immediately.

Health:
No concern. In the opposite I heard, this technology is also used in a medical context for lowering HF radiation exposure to the living environment, which also gets better (not worse) with those hifi applications.

What I learned from all I experienced:
Any kind of HF noise and other radiation in the room and equipment seems to be the main enemy of realistic, palpable sound on high level. It reminds me a bit of discovering jitter as a main problem of digital signal processing. Anything like better CD drives, different DAC’s, better power supplies etc. did their job, but never got close to what was achieved with improving the jitter topics. And by the way, jitter also had to do with noise.

https://www.schnerzinger.com/english/technologie-neu

 

[vinyl_mike]

This thread has taken some interesting twists and turns. As a one-year owner of a complete Schnerzinger setup of Grid Protectors, EMI Protectors, Multi Guards and soon to be delivered Allocator, I have a pretty good grasp of the Schnerzinger effect in my system.

Yes, I find the lack of technical information mildly irritating, but in reality not that different from dozens of other manufacturers that I've talked to who refuse to divulge what they believe to be their “secret sauce.”

Without technical information, for me the questions then become, do these devices work, how do they affect my system, and do they enhance the musical event in my room? For each, a resounding yes. Regardless of how they do it, they deliver a substantial improvement.

With multiple components, and the claim of persistence even after being unplugged, plus tons of switches, A/B comparisons are tough. However, two weeks ago, I was rearranging a bookshelf, and I inadvertently unplugged the Grid Protector. Subsequently over the next two weeks the sound, while good, seemed to lose a touch of the realism and emotional connection to the music. When I found the mistake, everything snapped back into place with the music now more real and engaging. Without descending into too many clichés, a higher level of purity has returned, along with an enhanced emotional immersion and connection with the music.

My setup and switch positions remained as Gideon and I originally set them approximately a year ago. Recently, this thread prompted me to do a little bit of testing, specifically, moving some devices between my standard outlets and my balanced power Equi=Tech outlets, and playing a little with the switches. With thirteen switches in my setup each with three possible positions, a quick Google search indicates about 1.5 million possible combinations. So, I basically bounced around between physical placement and having all the switches in the number one position, or all the switches in the number two position. And although I have an all-solid-state system, clearly the number two switch position in my room had the most dramatic effect.

Yes, I was skeptical at the beginning. However, after living with these products for over a year, there is no doubt that they are effective and have a dramatic impact on the sound. I am awaiting the Allocator and will continue to update.

 

[Steve williams]

Like you Mike, I only have 2 protectors in my room and ALL six switches are in the 2 position. The One position was good but 2 was truly best

 

[Steve williams]

My dilemma is with my upcoming event at my house on Nov 2-3. My system sounds so good that I truly do not want to take them down and out of the room. I believe what has been described as buffering is the lingering positive effects of these devices when they are switched off, and AC plugs pulled. You seem to truly go back to "hifi" when they are removed from your room for a few days. So for me to have an event highlighting Lampi 360 DAC and Taiko Olympus/IO is a tough decision. At the moment I am inclined to leave these protectors on throughout the weekend

 

[wil]

How about remove them two days before the first day of the event (to let the buffering dissipate). Let everyone there on the first day hear without, and then put them in later to let the same people hear the difference with and leave them in.

 

[Steve williams]

That works for the Saturday crowd but not the Sunday attendees

 

[wil]

Right, but at least the Saturday crowd will get a good before and after comparison.