The Grammy Awards -2018 Winners

[853guy]

There are many things about the Grammy's I found confounding. Who does the voting? Who determines the details of the show? Is it an executive committee like the Oscars and if so, why is rap and hip hop emphasized at the expense of rock? Could the focus on rap and hip hop be the cause of the 20% decline in viewership this year?

The most disgusting review of the show was the lead article in USA today the morning after, where the reviewer was angry the lead awards did not go to people of color. He found this particularly disappointing since he was elated the nominations had so many. I couldn't believe this flagrant racist remark, and moreover, that USA today would actually print it. Can you imagine that? This guy basically said that Bruno Mars is too white to win Album of the Year. Can you imagine what they would do to a white reviewer if it was the other way around?

I can't say I'm a huge fan of rap or hip hop but I do appreciate the artistry, especially the choreography. For me, rap isn't music, it's theater. I try and understand it but who can understand it if you can't make out the words? Am I supposed to tape it and play it back at half-speed? And while I appreciate that some used the show as a political bully pulpit, I thought this was supposed to be an award show for music? I really had to bite my tongue for many of the political sentiments, but that's not the point. I just didn't think that was the forum for them.

The best comment of the night on the show was when James Corden introduced his parents and noticed they had a Hamilton Playbill on their lap. When he asked them incredulously if they saw Hamilton, his dad replied, "well, you know this show is so long we thought we would duck out and see Hamilton and then come back and no one would know". Obviously a staged routine, but funny. And true.

Hello Marty,

I think it's important to remember that if you're struggling to make sense of the Grammys in 2018, it has a long, long history of making atrocious, self-congratulatory decisions, not limited to:

Club Nouveau (who??) for covering Bill Wither's "Lean on Me" and winning Best R&B song.

Milli Vanilli for Best New Artist despite never singing a word on "Girl You Know It's True".

The Baha Men for "Who Let the Dogs Out"... I mean... come on!

A Taste of Honey winning out over Elvis Costello for Best New Artist.

Eric Clapton winning Best Rock Song for his acoustic version of "Layla" written twenty-two years previously over Nirvana's "Smells Like Teen Spirit" - but of course.

Steely Dan winning Album of the Year for Two Against Nature by regurgitating every Steely Dan trope over Kid A, The Marshall Mathers LP and Midnite Vultures.

Pat Metheny winning twenty Grammys for being Pat Metheny.

Not to mention the dubious nature of the Technical Grammy that goes to large corporation for being large corporation.


I'm not against celebrating artist achievements per se, but their historical value is hugely, hugely questionable.

For whatever that's worth.

Best,

853guy

 

[Bruce B]

There are many things about the Grammy's I found confounding. Who does the voting? Who determines the details of the show? Is it an executive committee like the Oscars and if so, why is rap and hip hop emphasized at the expense of rock? Or is rock too white to be politically correct for the producers? Apparently so. Get this-

The most disgusting review of the show was the lead article in USA today the morning after, where the reviewer was angry the lead awards did not go to people of color. He found this particularly disappointing since he was elated the nominations had so many. I couldn't believe this flagrant racist remark, and moreover, that USA today would actually print it. Can you imagine that? This guy basically said that Bruno Mars is too white to win Album of the Year. Can you imagine what they would do to a white reviewer if it was the other way around?

Could the focus on rap and hip hop be the cause of the 20% decline in viewership this year?

I can't say I'm a huge fan of rap or hip hop but I do appreciate the artistry, especially the choreography. For me, rap isn't music, it's theater. I try and understand it but who can understand it if you can't make out the words? Am I supposed to tape it and play it back at half-speed? And while I appreciate that some used the show as a political bully pulpit, I thought this was supposed to be an award show for music? I really had to bite my tongue for many of the political sentiments, but that's not the point. I just didn't think that was the forum for politics as opposed to celebrating the best of the year's best music, which they didn't do very well. Or rather, they pandered to a select audience, and it sure wasn't me.

I can answer one of your questions. The members of NARAS and the Producers & Engineers wing are those that vote on who gets a Grammy. But, you only get to vote in 2 categories of music...... me being New Age and Jazz.
What happened at the Grammy is pretty much the same thing that happened at the Kennedy Honors this past year. One of the Honoree's was LL Cool J. When artists like Busta Rhymes got up to perform some of his songs, you wouldn't believe how uneasy so many white people were in the audience. They didn't know whether to stand, sit, clap or wipe their a$$. Honoring Lionel Ritchie wasn't too much better. Nothing like it was when they Honored Led Zeppelin!!

 

[ddk]

I can answer one of your questions. The members of NARAS and the Producers & Engineers wing are those that vote on who gets a Grammy. But, you only get to vote in 2 categories of music...... me being New Age and Jazz.
What happened at the Grammy is pretty much the same thing that happened at the Kennedy Honors this past year. One of the Honoree's was LL Cool J. When artists like Busta Rhymes got up to perform some of his songs, you wouldn't believe how uneasy so many white people were in the audience. They didn't know whether to stand, sit, clap or wipe their a$$. Honoring Lionel Ritchie wasn't too much better. Nothing like it was when they Honored Led

I’m very clear, I want to wipe my A$$ when I hear this crap! I get nauseas with today’s PC atmosphere wether it’s race, victimized bitches or rhetoric of the left and have no qualms expressing myself, it’s a shame when people feel uneasy expressing their values in what’s supposed to be a free society.

david

 

[853guy]

I’m very clear, I want to wipe my A$$ when I hear this crap! I get nauseas with today’s PC atmosphere wether it’s race, victimized bitches or rhetoric of the left and have no qualms expressing myself, it’s a shame when people feel uneasy expressing their values in what’s supposed to be a free society.

david

Unless of course our freedom comes at the expense of someone else, and especially when that someone else is systemically oppressed because we don't give a crap about their labour conditions, living conditions, enforced slavery, torture, right to a fair trial, arbitrary arrest or imprisonment, curtailment of opinion and expression, or a myriad of other basic human rights abuses.

Best,

853guy

 

[Kal Rubinson]

One person's passion and earnestness is another person's over-emoting and pitchiness.

They are not comparable. One is the performer's personal motivation while the other is the performer's expression of that motivation.

 

[853guy]

They are not comparable. One is the performer's personal motivation while the other is the performer's expression of that motivation.

Hi Kal,

I’m not talking about the performer’s personal motivation. It could be that they were contractually bound to be there, got paid a lot of money, had a genuine desire to change the world, or all three for that matter.

I’m saying it’s a matter of perception. You saw over-emoting and pitchiness (“didn’t result in good music” according to you), others saw passion and earnestness (“emotionally charged” according to Variety). Some will have seen both. That’s how perception works.

Best,

853guy

 

[jeff1225]

This entire thread speaks volumes (pun intended) in regards to the state of the music business and the Grammy's, it's not about music it's about politics.

 

[ddk]

Unless of course our freedom comes at the expense of someone else, and especially when that someone else is systemically oppressed because we don't give a crap about their labour conditions, living conditions, enforced slavery, torture, right to a fair trial, arbitrary arrest or imprisonment, curtailment of opinion and expression, or a myriad of other basic human rights abuses.

Best,

853guy

I agree with you on that but since we’re not living in Muslim or African countries this argument is moot and artificial.

david

 

[KeithR]

There are many things about the Grammy's I found confounding. Who does the voting? Who determines the details of the show? Is it an executive committee like the Oscars and if so, why is rap and hip hop emphasized at the expense of rock? Or is rock too white to be politically correct for the producers? Apparently so. Get this-

The most disgusting review of the show was the lead article in USA today the morning after, where the reviewer was angry the lead awards did not go to people of color. He found this particularly disappointing since he was elated the nominations had so many. I couldn't believe this flagrant racist remark, and moreover, that USA today would actually print it. Can you imagine that? This guy basically said that Bruno Mars is too white to win Album of the Year. Can you imagine what they would do to a white reviewer if it was the other way around?

Could the focus on rap and hip hop be the cause of the 20% decline in viewership this year?

I can't say I'm a huge fan of rap or hip hop but I do appreciate the artistry, especially the choreography. For me, rap isn't music, it's theater. I try and understand it but who can understand it if you can't make out the words? Am I supposed to tape it and play it back at half-speed? And while I appreciate that some used the show as a political bully pulpit, I thought this was supposed to be an award show for music? I really had to bite my tongue for many of the political sentiments, but that's not the point. I just didn't think that was the forum for politics as opposed to celebrating the best of the year's best music, which they didn't do very well. Or rather, they pandered to a select audience, and it sure wasn't me.

Hip hop has only won album of the year like once. Eminem losing to Steely Dan years ago is but one example. Its a travesty. Hip hop is the #1 genre in music right now and has been completely ignored by the academy for years.

http://www.businessinsider.com/hip-hop-passes-rock-most-popular-music-genre-nielsen-2018-1

Bruno Mars was indeed a "safe" pick. And surprising you old folks didn't love Patty LuPone's rendition of Evita which was spectacular.

I'll be honest, the comments I'm reading here make me very sad. We can say we prefer this and that equipment, but music is art to different people and there is never anything wrong with musical preference. I'm not a big hip hop fan but respect the art form and Kendrick Lamar is an exceptionally talented artist as the opener displayed.

 

[KeithR]

and fwiw, Pitchfork had Lamar and SZA as the best two albums of the year...and this is the largest indie music site, no Billboard etc.

https://pitchfork.com/features/lists-and-guides/the-50-best-albums-of-2017/?page=5

 

[853guy]

I agree with you on that but since we’re not living in Muslim or African countries this argument is moot and artificial.

david

Hi ddk,

It would be moot and artificial if say, the iPhone was made in the US.

But since the toxic rare-earth metals that power the batteries are mined in the Democratic Republic of the Congo; its components come from dozens of countries (Corning who manufactures the glass screens has factories in twenty six countries); and it’s assembled by Foxconn and Pegatron’s workers at factories in China, Thailand, Malaysia, South Korea and Singapore, it’s seems particularly relevant, given there have been many instances of reported human rights abuses and violations in those countries, and at tremendous cost to the environment. That’s not even to mention the fourteen confirmed suicides at Foxconn’s Longhua factory in 2010 alone.

The only reason we can afford an iPhone is because we’ve chosen to outsource the greatest burden of labour to those whose voices are suppressed and rights are abused. Were the iPhone to be designed and manufactured solely in the US, I doubt many of us could justify the expenditure, which would be ironic given how easily we justify it ethically.

Award shows may be farcical by their very nature, but that alone shouldn't necessarily mean they're exempt or excluded from highlighting issues we all know exist, but often struggle to acknowledge.

Take care,

853guy

 

[marty]

And surprising you old folks didn't love Patty LuPone's rendition of Evita which was spectacular.

Not true. I thought it was superb. Can't say I felt the same about the chap who sang "Somewhere". Didnt work for me.

I'm not a big hip hop fan but respect the art form and Kendrick Lamar is an exceptionally talented artist as the opener displayed.

+1, but I was hardly moved by him basically telling me "I"was responsible for the shooting deaths he portrayed of the red-robed people in stage. As I recall, the 650 shooting deaths in Chicago last year were not done primarily by whites, but let's not go there. Did I enjoy the artistry of his talent? Indeed I did.

 

[ddk]

Hi ddk,

It would be moot and artificial if say, the iPhone was made in the US.

But since the toxic rare-earth metals that power the batteries are mined in the Democratic Republic of the Congo; its components come from dozens of countries (Corning who manufactures the glass screens has factories in twenty six countries); and it’s assembled by Foxconn and Pegatron’s workers at factories in China, Thailand, Malaysia, South Korea and Singapore, it’s seems particularly relevant, given there have been many instances of reported human rights abuses and violations in those countries, and at tremendous cost to the environment. That’s not even to mention the fourteen confirmed suicides at Foxconn’s Longhua factory in 2010 alone.

The only reason we can afford an iPhone is because we’ve chosen to outsource the greatest burden of labour to those whose voices are suppressed and rights are abused. Were the iPhone to be designed and manufactured solely in the US, I doubt many of us could justify the expenditure, which would be ironic given how easily we justify it ethically.

Award shows may be farcical by their very nature, but that alone shouldn't necessarily mean they're exempt or excluded from highlighting issues we all know exist, but often struggle to acknowledge.

Take care,

853guy

What a shame all those nasty Foxconn, Nestlé, Hershey, etc., companies should pay for creating tens of thousands of jobs in countries where the populations are so poor and desperate that they sell their children into slavery, prostitution and worse cut their limbs to beg on the streets just to eat. Now these Mofos come along, train these people, give them jobs, a future and way out of their dead end life so they can afford to raise a family and get educated. Such a horrible thing they’re doing to feed the evil American consumerism! Instead we should all do what you’re doing, just sit on our backsides and call the the job creators and people who’re actually making a difference evil, fantastic! Ding, ding, ding, news flash, Apple, Foxconn and the other augurs are the ones responsible for China’s continued economic growth elevating billions of people and not the snowflakes who do nothing but criticize and sit on their hands or Rap about it!

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I’m saying it’s a matter of perception. You saw over-emoting and pitchiness (“didn’t result in good music” according to you),......................

No matter what her performance demeanor, I found no music there.

That’s how perception works.

Thanks for the lecture.

 

[Hi-FiGuy]

And my number 1# reason why I dont watch, its a one sided political outlet and that folks is why viewership of these award shows is down.
No other reason.
Most people are over it and dont watch because of it.
Whats left are those that need there ego stroked and there rah rahs pumped up.
Same thing with Hollywood awards shows, they just plain smell bad.
Take a good TV show that's just plain funny, that's all it set out to be, then a couple sessons in they start sliding in slowly the social issues and ruin it.
This happened last night with a show I liked, they focused on a current hot point, easy as pie, done never to watch again, never to support any of their future projects again.
You are entertainers, do that and do it well, you are not politicians.
The more they do this the further the division incresses that they are supposedly fighting against.
The wallet speaks and people are sick of it.
The good news is I have a lot more time to get stuff done these dsys.

 

[853guy]

What a shame all those nasty Foxconn, Nestlé, Hershey, etc., companies should pay for creating tens of thousands of jobs in countries where the populations are so poor and desperate that they sell their children into slavery, prostitution and worse cut their limbs to beg on the streets just to eat. Now these Mofos come along, train these people, give them jobs, a future and way out of their dead end life so they can afford to raise a family and get educated. Such a horrible thing they’re doing to feed the evil American consumerism! Instead we should all do what you’re doing, just sit on our backsides and call the the job creators and people who’re actually making a difference evil, fantastic! Ding, ding, ding, news flash, Apple, Foxconn and the other augurs are the ones responsible for China’s continued economic growth elevating billions of people and not the snowflakes who do nothing but criticize and sit on their hands or Rap about it!

ddk,

If you’re content to hold that perspective, then I am certainly not going to try to convince you otherwise. If however you wish to read further into how our abdication of responsibility for the outsourcing of labour to developing and post-Communist societies enables systemic abuse of human rights and a growing gap between rich and poor, then let me know and I’ll point you toward some additional resources.

Take care,

853guy

 

[853guy]

No matter what her performance demeanor, I found no music there.

Yes, I think you made that clear in your first post.

Thanks for the lecture.

It wasn’t intended to be a lecture. It was intended to clarify my perspective. Something you’ve done seven times in this thread.

Be well, Kal.

Best,

853guy

 

[ddk]

ddk,

If you’re content to hold that perspective, then I am certainly not going to try to convince you otherwise. If however you wish to read further into how our abdication of responsibility for the outsourcing of labour to developing and post-Communist societies enables systemic abuse of human rights and a growing gap between rich and poor, then let me know and I’ll point you toward some additional resources.

Take care,

853guy

I lived and worked in those places for a couple of decades, I know what a difference those jobs made where people had nothing, those rights you’re talking of are hollow and meaningless to empty stomachs, do something and make a real difference then we can discuss ideology when you’ve dealt with reality.

david

 

[853guy]

I lived and worked in those places for a couple of decades, I know what a difference those jobs made where people had nothing, those rights you’re talking of are hollow and meaningless to empty stomachs, do something and make a real difference then we can discuss ideology when you’ve dealt with reality.

david

It seems we have a difference of perspective.

However, somehow you want make it personal, assuming things about me you can’t possibly know, and attempting to label me as someone content to “sit on (my) backside and call the the job creators and people who’re actually making a difference evil”, while doing nothing to “make a real difference”.

I’d say the ad hominem nature of your argument is below you, but then I’d be assuming something about you I can’t possibly know.

All the best, ddk.

853guy

 

[NorthStar]

Hi ddk,

It would be moot and artificial if say, the iPhone was made in the US.

But since the toxic rare-earth metals that power the batteries are mined in the Democratic Republic of the Congo; its components come from dozens of countries (Corning who manufactures the glass screens has factories in twenty six countries); and it’s assembled by Foxconn and Pegatron’s workers at factories in China, Thailand, Malaysia, South Korea and Singapore, it’s seems particularly relevant, given there have been many instances of reported human rights abuses and violations in those countries, and at tremendous cost to the environment. That’s not even to mention the fourteen confirmed suicides at Foxconn’s Longhua factory in 2010 alone.

The only reason we can afford an iPhone is because we’ve chosen to outsource the greatest burden of labour to those whose voices are suppressed and rights are abused. Were the iPhone to be designed and manufactured solely in the US, I doubt many of us could justify the expenditure, which would be ironic given how easily we justify it ethically.

Award shows may be farcical by their very nature, but that alone shouldn't necessarily mean they're exempt or excluded from highlighting issues we all know exist, but often struggle to acknowledge.

Take care,

853guy

Your posts are always interesting, they make us explore further beyond the boundaries.
You bring relevant points that are part of the world's reality, and the level of acceptance is relative to the level of understanding.