The Half Life of Expectation Bias

[edorr]

Sorry, some of us can consider themselves competent because we know Ohms law , how to use a voltmeter and how to set the scales in an osciloscope. If someone owns a soundmeter he only needs to fulfill two of the previous requirements to be considered competent.

I can't operate a voltmeter and on the subjective front consider myself highly susceptible to placebo effect. Double incompetence whammy. Having lots of fun with audio though.

 

[mep]

I can't operate a voltmeter and on the subjective front consider myself highly susceptible to placebo effect. Double incompetence whammy. Having lots of fun with audio though.

Those damn placebos will get you every time if your not careful.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Not to be pedantic, but we use the term "expectation bias" inaccurately in the audiophile world. "Expectation Bias," in the research world refers to the observer-expectancy effect, also known as "experimenter bias," and is a phenomenon in which the expectations of the researcher prejudice the results of the research. Lots of ways that can happen, from the way questions are phrased to the methodology used in the research lab.

It's an understandable mis-use of the term; one that makes a lot of sense. Audiophile discusions refer to the phenomenon of hearing what you expect to hear -- because of look reputation, etc -- as "expectation bias." But that's not really what the term refers to There are a few congnitive biases that apply very well, to ojectivists and subjectivists alike -- in the audiphile world, though...

Confirmation Bias -- unconscious act of referencing only those perspectives that fuel our pre-existing views, while at the same time ignoring or dismissing opinions — no matter how valid — that threaten our world view.

InGroup Bias -- A manifestation of our innate tribalistic tendencies, ingroup bias causes us to overestimate the abilities and value of our immediate group at the expense of people we don't really know.

Post-Purchase Rationalization -- a way of subconsciously justifying our purchases — especially expensive ones. Social psychologists say it stems from the principle of commitment, our psychological desire to stay consistent and avoid a state of cognitive dissonance.

Bandwagon Effect -- The bandwagon effect is what often causes behaviors, social norms, and memes to propagate among groups of individuals — regardless of the evidence or motives in support.

No need to go on, really, because while these phenomenon have been repeatedly observed, extensively studied and are, at this point, well-defined and well-established, none of them apply to us. Its all those other humans that have these weaknesses.

Class dismissed.

Tim

 

[Orb]

Tim,
it is even more complex than that due to the fact certain chemical responses in the brain are attributed to expectation bias.
One being the mOFC study I have mentioned in the past showing greater enjoyment/perceived quality when they think the price of the wine is more expensive.
Again another study looked at drug addicts and the expectation-preparation that also creates a buzz even before injecting or taking the drug; not talking about those with extensive drug issues and strong physical dependancy.

Other biases that do apply include when we effect a change in our system we "expect" a difference because in our mind changing something should have a causal effect that applies to cognitive decision making, while anchoring-baseline reference falls more into sensory.
The former bias example "may" (my own opinion and not one I would say is fact as never been tested in a controlled environment) be why the room bowls/pebbles/etc seem to work.

Anyway in theory many biases can be overcome, but it is interesting to note the mechanism for such a feat applies to chemical reaction or sensory type anchoring and how well it works.
For chemical reaction I assume one could study wine tasters or master blenders/professional food tasters/master perfumer/etc, while sensory I assume comes down to specific training methodology.

Cheers
Orb

 

[mep]

I trust that nagging voice in my head that tells me something is wrong after long term listening/exposure to a new component (assuming my brain didn't start screaming at me immediately after the new component was inserted into the signal path).

 

[c1ferrari]

While a postbac student at UCSD, I worked for a couple of P.I.'s at the med school whom routinely conducted studies where neither the control nor experimental group was known to them. This was integral to their peer-reviewed research.

 

[GaryProtein]

While a postbac student at UCSD, I worked for a couple of P.I.'s at the med school whom routinely conducted studies where neither the control nor experimental group was known to them. This was integral to their peer-reviewed research.

That's the double blind test, the standard for scientific research.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I trust that nagging voice in my head that tells me something is wrong after long term listening/exposure to a new component (assuming my brain didn't start screaming at me immediately after the new component was inserted into the signal path).

You trust it to do what, exactly?

Tim

 

[treitz3]

You trust it to do what, exactly?

I trust that nagging voice in my head that tells me something is wrong...

Bold added by yours truly.

Tom

 

[JackD201]

You trust it to do what, exactly?

Tim

Explore possibilities and thus formulate courses of action.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Explore possibilities and thus formulate courses of action.

Well the voice in his head and his ears have definitely taken Mark all over the course in the last couple of years or so...however long it's been since he got frustrated with his last set of tubes and pulled out the old PLs. That began quite a series of actions and if, at this point, he believes it was expectation followed by revelation over time, well, that's a formulation.
I remember the journey. Every step was a great improvement...until it was not. I guess this new theory on expectation bias is one way to view that. It's either something like that, or a cautionary tale.

Tim

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

I personally don't know whats left to say in 75% of the threads here in WBF anymore.

I personally don't know what to say in 90% of them.

 

[mep]

Well the voice in his head and his ears have definitely taken Mark all over the course in the last couple of years or so...however long it's been since he got frustrated with his last set of tubes and pulled out the old PLs. That began quite a series of actions and if, at this point, he believes it was expectation followed by revelation over time, well, that's a formulation.
I remember the journey. Every step was a great improvement...until it was not. I guess this new theory on expectation bias is one way to view that. It's either something like that, or a cautionary tale.

Tim

You need to think back on what I said in the past and I thought it was pretty clear. I had some tube amps that just wore me out with keeping them operating and I have previously gone into plenty of detail over why. It wasn't because they didn't sound good or even great, because they did. I was also having noise floor issues with using pure tube phono sections. So, I was 'mad' at tubes for awhile and I sold the gear off. In addition, my Def Tech PB7000SC speakers weren't the most tube friendly speakers on the market in spite of their specifications which tells you it should be so. The main reason is the built in subs and how they affect the impedance the main amp has to deal with.

I stand by every kind word I said about the Phase Linear 400 Series II amps. They are still very good sounding amps. Did they sound as good as my KSA-250? No, they did not. Did the PL amps have better sounding bass through my Def Tech speakers than all of the other tube amps I had hooked up to them? Yes, they did. Was that bass quality the same as the KSA-250? No, it was not. So, I put together a damn nice sounding system around the Def Tech speakers with a low noise floor using SS gear which is what I wanted and I had that basic system since 2011 and got lots of enjoyment out of it. I'm still using the Krell KPE Ref phono stage.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

You need to think back on what I said in the past and I thought it was pretty clear. I had some tube amps that just wore me out with keeping them operating and I have previously gone into plenty of detail over why. It wasn't because they didn't sound good or even great, because they did. I was also having noise floor issues with using pure tube phono sections. So, I was 'mad' at tubes for awhile and I sold the gear off. In addition, my Def Tech PB7000SC speakers weren't the most tube friendly speakers on the market in spite of their specifications which tells you it should be so. The main reason is the built in subs and how they affect the impedance the main amp has to deal with.

I stand by every kind word I said about the Phase Linear 400 Series II amps. They are still very good sounding amps. Did they sound as good as my KSA-250? No, they did not. Did the PL amps have better sounding bass through my Def Tech speakers than all of the other tube amps I had hooked up to them? Yes, they did. Was that bass quality the same as the KSA-250? No, it was not. So, I put together a damn nice sounding system around the Def Tech speakers with a low noise floor using SS gear which is what I wanted and I had that basic system since 2011 and got lots of enjoyment out of it. I'm still using the Krell KPE Ref phono stage.

No, I remember it all well. You loved your old tube amps. Then the PLs were a wonder. Then the Krells were amazing. You weren't sure about the KEFs at first, then they were great, then they were for sale, then they were pulled back from the block, then they were sold. And now back to tubes and big floor-standers. It has been quite a journey, and I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that this thread was based on that experience, as it certainly looked like you were finding new things, loving them at first, then losing the infatuation with time. But maybe this thread is about something else altogether? One thing I disagree with, and given that we've all got "expectation bias" wrong anyway, it is just my POV, but I don't see expectation bias, as we use the term, as limited to new acquisitions, to the "replacement" of existing components. I think it is fully in effect in showrooms, shows, friend's homes, on the internet, and impacting our perceptions of equipment we may never own at all. It is, by my definition anyway, a whole plethora of biases that create an expectation of performance before we listen, and affects our perception of what we hear when we do listen. Does it fade with time? I think, like all infatuations, it is eventually replaced by new ones in a cycle that repeats itself until love is found and a commitment is made. YMMV, but I hope you find lasting love this time, regardless.

Tim

 

[JackD201]

Lasting love is not achieved by finding the perfect mate.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Lasting love is not achieved by finding the perfect mate.

How could it be? There is no perfect mate.

Tim

 

[JackD201]

Exactly.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Exactly.

Gotta have a lot of love to live with us. Passion works both ways.

 

[edorr]

Gotta have a lot of love to live with us. Passion works both ways.

You need ..... a whole lotta love

 

[Joe Whip]

I found this clip on the McGurk effect to be very interesting and applicable to expectation bias. Even when you know better, your eyes fool you into hearing something that isn't there. Very interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-lN8vWm3m0