The more you spend on gear, the more you lose touch with the music!

[spiritofmusic]

Diapson, sorry to hear about your injury. At the same time as being a new dad !
I get a whole lot of joy trundling around London and on motorways w/my best friend listening to mp3's in his van - Eminem, NWA, Elvis and Johnny Cash for two hrs is a total joy.
Similarly when he gets here, he's absorbed by Michael Hedges, Pat Metheny, Bolero and Metallica on vinyl on my system.
So, no audio snobbery from me, I totally love his sound, as he does mine. However he does believe I'm totally mad!!!
He works long hrs and doesn't have the chance to listen much at home, and no disposable income for a hifi.
I have more time and cash to spend, and 20 yrs in this hobby has meant I listen a lot, to an expensively assembled system, having made good and bad choices.
So I have advanced gearhead status, but at no detriment to my passion for music.
Indeed had I stayed at my first, £8k, system in 1997 that was so lame sounding, w/out exploring and spending cash, I may have drifted away from listening to music at home, the sound being so unappetising at the time.
Recent cables, power, grounding and vibration isolation expenditure is the most joyous icing on the cake of a signature sound that totally satisfies me.
Had I been more into soccer or cars, I'm sure I'd be disagreeing w/enthusiasts online re cash spent on having to have the best season tix, buying pricey memorabilia, crippling engine tuning expenditure etc etc.

 

[Diapason]

Diapson, sorry to hear about your injury. At the same time as being a new dad !

Yep, can't even pick up the baby, and can offer virtually no support to my wife. She's pointed out, quite rightly, that now she's looking after 3 kids...

Indeed had I stayed at my first, £8k, system in 1997 that was so lame sounding, w/out exploring and spending cash, I may have drifted away from music, the sound being so unappetising at the time.

I think this is an important point, and references my own situation. I don't listen to so much music on the main rig because I don't enjoy the sound of it any more. I still listen to a fair bit of music elsewhere, my ardour for MUSIC itself is undimmed, but for me to get back to listening to the main system I'm going to need to do some of that hifi-related shenanigans that's so derided.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Keith, I've had a totally baffling experience w/GIKs recently. W/Bonzo's kind help I secured 5x242s, 4x Tri traps, mega bass trap, at a good price. Constant encouragement from him convinced me finally to go for it re room treatment (his "dislike" of my room and sound has approached legendary status). Placed them carefully in corners, first and second reflection points, and behind me/behind rack. Standard placement.
After a fascinating initial impvt of reduced slap echo, better focus and imaging, I've actually found bass nodes are exaggerated in my room - and this is w/apparently leaner bass presentation.
Now, my Duelund/Lundahl modded Zus are reborn in the bass, and output is really challenging acoustics more than ever. But going back to the room w/no panels has been like getting off a brutal diet where I still kept putting on weight - How can I have got BOTH lean AND flabby w/the Giks SIMULTANEOUSLY?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Diapson, just don't mention those wedding vows too often! In sickness and in health, and all that jazz. I'm getting married in the (too) near future, will make sure I highlight that one.
Yes, my first high end system - I was confused in the demo, and still signed the cheque. OWW!!!
On average, 3 major changes of each component later, plus judicious tweaks is getting me there. Involving a whole stack of cash. And wasted money w/some blind alleys. And those tweaks have been a true added bonus, none have been up that particular alley.
But arguments on spending choices can certainly be had.

 

[Argonaut]

Marc,

Give Greg at GPoint a call and enquire as to the Zilplex system, I believe he may still have a set available for home demo.

http://www.stereotimes.com/accZiplex112811.shtml

 

[spiritofmusic]

Harlequin, I've in truth overloaded w/changes in the last 3 months - whole new amp chain, Zu mods, whole new cable loom.
I actually need to take a back seat, and allow recent changes to settle (esp the Zu ones). I have Furutech US sockets on order, and that's going to be me done for a little while.
I'm in some agreement w/Bonzo re the amount of navel gazing that one can be swept up in. No doubt about that.

 

[Argonaut]

No worries Marc, merely that you may be pleased with the non intrusive to the eye way in which the Zilplex system goes about its business, as apposed to residing in the Mock Recording Studio/ Padded Cell look!

 

[Al M.]

Without measuring and then understanding the measurements, buying any form of passive treatment is ,frankly a waste of time and money.
The first step into acoustically measure the room.
Keith

This is debatable. I only sent ASC a layout and photos of my room. All the acoustic treatments that I obtained from them were effective, in fact they are among the most transformative and effective upgrades to my system ever. All this without any measurement.

 

[bgupton]

Keith, I've had a totally baffling experience w/GIKs recently. W/Bonzo's kind help I secured 5x242s, 4x Tri traps, mega bass trap, at a good price. Constant encouragement from him convinced me finally to go for it re room treatment (his "dislike" of my room and sound has approached legendary status). Placed them carefully in corners, first and second reflection points, and behind me/behind rack. Standard placement.
After a fascinating initial impvt of reduced slap echo, better focus and imaging, I've actually found bass nodes are exaggerated in my room - and this is w/apparently leaner bass presentation.
Now, my Duelund/Lundahl modded Zus are reborn in the bass, and output is really challenging acoustics more than ever. But going back to the room w/no panels has been like getting off a brutal diet where I still kept putting on weight - How can I have got BOTH lean AND flabby w/the Giks SIMULTANEOUSLY?

Keep in mind that you may need to slightly adjust your speaker setup once you have the treatments installed. Also, your ears will need some time to adjust. You're going to notice what is different first and foremost. Improvements, however, are going to reveal themselves over time as you listen to a wide variety of music.

I just replaced my GIK corner bass traps with Soffits yesterday and had the EXACT same experience as you. Oddly, I think it took a few hours for the room to settle down. I can't explain it, but the first album I played sounded more tight & solid with more defined bass and yet muddy at the same time. I left the album on repeat and came back a few hours later and everything sounded great.

I can't explain it, but my theory is that the sound waves just have to figure out where to go.

 

[Al M.]

Have you measured how effective they were, how do you even know if you needed those window plugs without measurement.
What do you actually imagine was the difference having your windows 'plugged', what has changed?
keith.

I am not imagining anything, I and others are hearing it loud an clear:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?17334-My-minimonitor-subwoofer-system/page2

(post # 13 onward)

 

[spiritofmusic]

BG, I believe you're spot on.
I took all of 5 mins to remove the GIKS from my room.
Then I listened for a while - plusses and minuses compared to before.
Proceeded to move my spkrs further from the front wall, which immed evened out the deep bass response even w/out the GIKs. And then reinstalled the GIKs (another 5 mins - I am seriously underemployed!)
Whoa! Getting all the initial benefits I got 10 days ago, w/none of the bass anomalies audible.
Going to let this all settle in, and hope my joy factor persists.
Let's hope my sound waves show a bit more intelligence than me, and know just where to go.

Keith, you have an open invite to pop over here w/yr measuring gear, if you have a couple of hours free.

 

[Ron Resnick]

This is debatable. I only sent ASC a layout and photos of my room. All the acoustic treatments that I obtained from them were effective, in fact they are among the most transformative and effective upgrades to my system ever. All this without any measurement.

I agree with Al here. If one's room has a slap echo I think just about any significant amount of sound absorbing material or products you put almost anywhere is going to be a big help. I don't think acoustic analysis is needed to deal with obvious acoustic issues. Of course once the obvious issues are dealt with then acoustic analysis would be required to fine-tune things.

I have three ASC 16" round Tube Traps in sections totaling 14' tall on my front wall and other Tube Traps in the corners of my room, with Tower Slims lining the side walls. When I removed all of the ASC stuff to permit repairs to the front wall of the room, and I clapped my hands, I was surprised how bad is the slap echo in my room. I had forgotten how much the room echoed. I had grown used to the ASC stuff largely eliminating the slap echo.

My room has never been acoustically analyzed but basic room treatment can solve obvious problems even without detailed analysis.

 

[stehno]

I believe this to be an accurate observation that applies to many audiophiles, but obviously not all. I honestly believe that many have lost the ability to immerse themselves into the music, and are instead focused more on the sound (detail, depth, scale, accuracy, etc.) which their system portrays. When they say that a particular recording is the ultimate, are they referring to the music or the sound? Yes, sometimes (many times perhaps) it's both. My guess it that music is only secondary and system performance is the driving theme behind their claim. I'm not saying that I am completely immune to this myself, as surely I'm not, but when I sit down for a session it is because I want to hear the artists and their creations. I would say this is 95% of the time. The only time I don't is when I've added or changed something (gear, tweaks, room changes, etc.) and I want to identify the result of that. I then make the appropriate changes (if any or if needed) and I'm done with it.

Am I off my rocker or is there some validity behind my observation?

Does it really matter what the motive is? In the end both get to hear the same artist and their creations.

Well, wait a minute...., I'm not being completely honest here.

My suspicion is that guys like me are just more of a perfectionist in this regard than guys like you. But if per chance guys like me have taken our perfectionist passion in the right direction realizing superior / extreme solutions, then guys like me can pretty much assure guys like you that we're hearing more of the artist and their creations than you guys. And if so, then it is we who have the potential to receive greater enjoyment from our listening experiences than you guys.

But again, since your interpretation of the music is going to be different than mine anyway, what difference does motive really have? Except to look for ways to feel superior perhaps? Not trying to be rude as I'm just guessing or reaching for some cause.