The pecking order
- Thread starter mep
- Start date
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Someone else will have to answer that one... I just told him I want the best sound regardless.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Bruce
have you compared it to Charlies?
Is it truly silent even though it uses tubes?
What's his turn around time
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Direct A/B comparison... no. I need a balanced unit for studio use and did not care for Charlie's when he tried to implement that feature. I've heard Nick's a few times now and it's dead silent.
Wait time is a couple of months.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
His unit at RMAF was quiet. He was using Sashas and his own pre and amp with a Technics unit.
Yes I know
Nick was up from VA visiting me this weekend Think he liked what he heard with his phono section in my system He's also working on a bigger wattage amp and also a 300B based amplifier. Those should be ready in a couple of months.
Are you sure Bruce? The phono section, that is the template for the tape pre is a hybrid design. But maybe Nick doesn't need that 70 dB of gain for the tape end and just uses the tube/MM section.
Yes it takes a while because Nick is working on the new version of the Emergency Broadcasting System where everyone will be notified by email or text
Once he's done with that project, the order time may drop And yes, I waited like four months for the phono section. And the phono is really quiet too.
I'll look that up when get home later. I know they are good caps and probably a mix of brands. One thing that impresses you about Nick (kinda like Vladamir) is his pride in not only how his gear sounds but also how it measures on the bench. We had some interesting talks about how the phono section is optimized and why he doesn't believe in loading at 47 K.
RE: Balanced King/Cello
I hope Charlie chimes in on this. A couple of years ago we tried a couple of different output transformers on the K/C( a cinemag and one other brand) while exploring options for Mike's long connection from tape preamp to his Dartzeel preamp. They both were sonic disasters and I think Charlie did not want to fiddle around trying to get a good match, as most potential customers are using single ended(RCA) inputs. Charlie eventually set it up for the special 'zeel' low impedance BNC input on the 'zeel' preamp.
It would be interesting to see how a K/C would compare to a truly balanced tape preamp for noise and sonics in a balanced system(going unbalanced from K/C into a balanced line input of a preamp).
Rich Brown
Portland, Oregon
I hope Charlie chimes in on this. A couple of years ago we tried a couple of different output transformers on the K/C( a cinemag and one other brand) while exploring options for Mike's long connection from tape preamp to his Dartzeel preamp. They both were sonic disasters and I think Charlie did not want to fiddle around trying to get a good match, as most potential customers are using single ended(RCA) inputs. Charlie eventually set it up for the special 'zeel' low impedance BNC input on the 'zeel' preamp.
It would be interesting to see how a K/C would compare to a truly balanced tape preamp for noise and sonics in a balanced system(going unbalanced from K/C into a balanced line input of a preamp).
Rich Brown
Portland, Oregon
Bruce,
Balanced input to output?
Balanced via transformer or differential balanced circuit topology
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Bruce,
Balanced input to output?
Balanced via transformer or differential balanced circuit topology
Balanced in/out w/ transformer. You need more gain, +4 instead of -10, for professional applications.
yup as my system is completely balanced I too asked for it...Charles did mention the impelmentation problem. He indicated that the SE application is very low impedence to help better drive longer runs of cable, albeit single ended. The pre does have a quiet noise floor.
the darTZeel 'zeel' allows for long runs with single ended, so you get the low noise and most refined sound with single ended gear and can avoid true balanced circuits and transformers. which have their place but are not optimal for best sound. 50 ohm matching also is a large benefit for signal integrity.....avoiding the echo of conventional interconnects.
but i get needing the +4 XLR gain for pro audio use.
but i get needing the +4 XLR gain for pro audio use.
Oh man, where to start.
Let's try balanced output. Yeah, I tried ONE time - for Mike L - putting in a "low nickle" Cinemag 1:1 driver (output) transformer. "Mikey didn't like it", so they took it out. Have heard enough transformers used both in preamp input and output applications to "hear" that they can /do work magic BUT it does "change" the sound. There's Walter up in Newburyport who has tried all kinds of new / NOS inputs between his SPU/Schick/Fairchild and the K/C - very successfully I might add - don't remember his FAV. And Rich B, Bill D and myself have heard a tubed tape pre with an input (and output) transformer that sounded quite seductive, but had other problems.
It's not rocket science to, say, put an output transformer on the output of the K/C. But whose/which one? To "experiment" gets expensive, as these average $100 and I need two of each type - and at that price, the manufacturers I've contacted don't do "loaners". Now if "someone" wants to lend me iron - I'll put them in a box?. And then there's the listening panel....
Charles
Let's try balanced output. Yeah, I tried ONE time - for Mike L - putting in a "low nickle" Cinemag 1:1 driver (output) transformer. "Mikey didn't like it", so they took it out. Have heard enough transformers used both in preamp input and output applications to "hear" that they can /do work magic BUT it does "change" the sound. There's Walter up in Newburyport who has tried all kinds of new / NOS inputs between his SPU/Schick/Fairchild and the K/C - very successfully I might add - don't remember his FAV. And Rich B, Bill D and myself have heard a tubed tape pre with an input (and output) transformer that sounded quite seductive, but had other problems.
It's not rocket science to, say, put an output transformer on the output of the K/C. But whose/which one? To "experiment" gets expensive, as these average $100 and I need two of each type - and at that price, the manufacturers I've contacted don't do "loaners". Now if "someone" wants to lend me iron - I'll put them in a box?. And then there's the listening panel....
Charles
Last edited:
Similar threads
