Thomas Mayer/Elrog tubes - especially 211s and Molybdenum Plate 211s

[bonzo75]

Well at least we have alternatively a Kassandra vs. Pacific thread now
https://whatsbestforum.com/threads/aries-cerat-kassandra-ref-2-vs-lampizator-pacific-dac.28680/

http://zero-distortion.org/aries-cerat-lampi-ar-5se-analysis-omega-rockports/

 

[Audiocrack]

Here is a link in which you can find some comments of (first) two users regarding the Psvane Molys versus regular Elrog 211:

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...-and-300b-tubes-almost-ready-for-sale.776283/

They clearly preferred the Psvane molys.

 

[Audiocrack]

And here is a link for those who might be interested in acquiring the Psvane molys:

https://audionote.shop/valves/rohren/power-tubes-triodes-audionote-audio-note-4242e-211-vt4c

 

[Audiocrack]

The price of one pair of Psvane molys is GBP 800. Private users need to add 20% VAT, so for them it is GBP 960 excluding shipping costs.

 

[Audiocrack]

Just wondering why the Elrog molys (EUR 2700 a pair) are so much more expensive then the PsVane molys: is that (only) a matter of the quantities being produced?

I am seriously thinking about ordering 2 x 2 PsVane molys and compare them to the (1942) RCA 211 valves I am currently using and compare them later to the four United Electronics 211 and four Amperex (brass) 211 tubes I have available. If only this biassing of my Kagura’s would not be such a ‘pain the ass’.

 

[VinylSavor]

Here is a link in which you can find some comments of (first) two users regarding the Psvane Molys versus regular Elrog 211:

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...-and-300b-tubes-almost-ready-for-sale.776283/

They clearly preferred the Psvane molys.

Just to clarify. To my knowledge this comparison was done with the old Elrog tubes from before I took over the company. Our new tubes have little in common with the old ones. And have been completely redesigned. Among other points:

Improved the vacuum by a factor of 10.
Increased thorium content of the filaments from 0.6 to 2%
Invertted the structure for 211 and 845
New better graphite used in the 211 and 845 plates
And many other small details.

Customers who have old style Elrog tubes and the new ones reported significantly better sound

Best regards

Thomas

 

[Audiocrack]

Just to clarify. To my knowledge this comparison was done with the old Elrog tubes from before I took over the company. Our new tubes have little in common with the old ones. And have been completely redesigned. Among other points:

Improved the vacuum by a factor of 10.
Increased thorium content of the filaments from 0.6 to 2%
Invertted the structure for 211 and 845
New better graphite used in the 211 and 845 plates
And many other small details.

Customers who have old style Elrog tubes and the new ones reported significantly better sound

Best regards

Thomas

Thanks much Thomas. Could you please provide some comments regarding the differences, in particular sonically speaking, between the ‘regular’ Elrog 211 and your Elrog ‘moly’? In what ways does the latter in your view better the former?

 

[VinylSavor]

Hi!

Some impressions here:

https://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2016/12/elrog-er242c-211-with-molybdenum-plate.html

Keep in mind that the result depends a lot on the amplifier, entire system and personal subjective perception. The above is based on the initial prototypes which were still in the non inverted style , but general sound characteristics are still valid.
In addition a typically common feedback from users of the ERT242 is that the amp sounds subjectively more powerful and dynamic with the ER242.

BR

Thomas

 

[Audiocrack]

Hi!

Some impressions here:

https://vinylsavor.blogspot.com/2016/12/elrog-er242c-211-with-molybdenum-plate.html

Keep in mind that the result depends a lot on the amplifier, entire system and personal subjective perception. The above is based on the initial prototypes which were still in the non inverted style , but general sound characteristics are still valid.
In addition a typically common feedback from users of the ERT242 is that the amp sounds subjectively more powerful and dynamic with the ER242.

BR

Thomas

Thanks Thomas. I fully understand that you are (somewhat) careful but I suppose your ER242 sounds significantly better (in some important aspects) then your ‘regular’ 211. As it should because the ER242’s are EUR 1200 per pair more expensive. A pity that a quad ER242’s is just too expensive (for me anyway) to find out if they can really better high quality nos 211 valves.

 

[Zero000]

I am seriously thinking about ordering 2 x 2 PsVane molys and compare them to the (1942) RCA 211 valves I am currently using and compare them later to the four United Electronics 211 and four Amperex (brass) 211 tubes I have available. If only this biassing of my Kagura’s would not be such a ‘pain the ass’.

I am sure Marc and I would be very interested to hear what you think if you did so.

 

[Zero000]

The Hi-Fi Critic issue with the Psvane Moly review is this one.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I'm v wary of 3 months only warranty on the Pvsane Molys. Does anyone know of the guarantee period on Mayer Elrogs?

 

[Blue58]

I'm v wary of 3 months only warranty on the Pvsane Molys. Does anyone know of the guarantee period on Mayer Elrogs?

Don’t know, but Emission Labs give 5 yr warranty and other manufacturers should at least give 3 years if they stand by their product.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Well, it's 3 months from Audio Note UK.
I'm not sure how that liases w Pvsane period.
One main issue I have is biasing.
Would necessitate 500 mile round journey.
To be repeated every time tubes might fail and replacements need re-biasing.

 

[VinylSavor]

There is a one year warranty on Elrog tubes, without any conditions

Don’t know, but Emission Labs give 5 yr warranty and other manufacturers should at least give 3 years if they stand by their product.

Have you read their warranty conditions? 5 years is only given on mechanical defects or bad vacuum not on emission loss which is the usual failure mode. EML warranty on emission is 1 year which can be extended to 18 month or 2500 hrs after registration.
Furthermore they charge 10% of the price for replacements from 3 to 12 months and 40% when replacing after 13 months.
This is just for clarification as these are good warranty conditions, but it is not a 5 year warranty.

http://emissionlabs.com/cd.htm

Our warranty is 1 year without restrictions and without any charges no matter if the failure is in the first 3 months or after 11 months

best regards

Thomas

 

[Blue58]

Thanks for the clarification Thomas and I wasn’t slighting in any way your production though I see where it may have come across as such.
I only ever had one EML tube go bad and within a few months it just died but it was an early version when they had a different shape bottle. I still have it’s soulmate in the box (pic) and 5 other pairs to keep it company. Currently using a 45 globe V4 (5 pins), perhaps unique. Hard to believe I’ve been listening to the 45 tube for so long.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Thomas, what are your failure rates like? The Elrog 845 pr I used in my Audion Black Shadows were next to useless, needing two replacement sets in 3 months.

My Nats using a quad of 211s are not self biasing. So any new set, and subsequent replacements for faulty tubes, would necessitate a day off work, 500 miles in fuel and the re biasing fee.

I can't contemplate this if these tubes are even remotely as feeble as the original Elrogs.

 

[VinylSavor]

Hi Blue,
I didn't see this is any critique towards my tubes, don't worry. I just wanted to clarify the warranty as this 5 year number keeps popping up while the actual warranty is different. Again this is also not meant as criticism towards EML as they make great tubes and have good warranty conditions.
Thomas

 

[VinylSavor]

Thomas, what are your failure rates like? The Elrog 845 pr I used in my Audion Black Shadows were next to useless, needing two replacement sets in 3 months.

My Nats using a quad of 211s are not self biasing. So any new set, and subsequent replacements for faulty tubes, would necessitate a day off work, 500 miles in fuel and the re biasing fee.

I can't contemplate this if these tubes are even remotely as feeble as the original Elrogs.

Our failure rate is well below 1% now.

Just one point which should be clear to any tube amplifier user: Tubes are consumables and wear out with use. Like any technical component tubes can fail. We cover that with what I believe are good warranty conditions.

The old Elrog tubes had lots of issues which we resolved by complete redesigns of all tube types. Still it depends a lot on how the tubes are operated in an amp. I know many people who have the old Elrog tubes and they are still going strong. But since the tubes have to work in every amp out in the market we had to make them more ruggedised. Over the years I have seen some horrible operating conditions even from reputable brands (I won't name any). I have seen severe under or overheating, running the tubes above maximum plate dissipation or cruel stressing of the filaments at turn on.

BR

Thomas

 

[spiritofmusic]

Sure Thomas. In respect of the 211 tubes, did you do any A/B comparisons w the usual suspects of older existing tubes? UE, Amperex, and my GE tubes?

All I can say is that this 70 year old set of tubes is still performing flawlessly in my Nats after several yrs w me, obviously in addition to it's previous six decades.

After my horrendous Elrog 845 experience, the hassle in adjusting my Nats for new tubes, and the inability to confidently predict I'll prefer them to my GEs, or like them at all, and their luxury pricing, you can see why I haven't signed the cheque yet.

The Acme Psvane thread leaves me w some reservations on their reliability.