Thorens & Goldmund Reference Turntables - European Expressions of the Art of Beyond

Anerol

Well-Known Member
Sep 29, 2012
20
2
235
Yverdon-les-Bains, Switzerland
#41
Talking of super turntables from a European perspective you can’t ignore Transrotor. These are some pictures of my Transrotor Quintessence. It was designed a bit later than the Thorens Reference. Not sure at all if it was ever exported to the US. Has anyone seen one on your side of the pond?

Simpler than that is not possible. No electronics that can fail. Just a power supply and Pabst Aussenläufer Motors and speed adjustment is done by pushing the motor housing closer or further away from the platter. The secret of the design though is that every element stands on its own feet. No tension between any of the elements of the table.

Provides for an extremely relaxed but precise sound.
 

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Lagonda

VIP/Donor
Feb 4, 2014
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#42
Beautiful TT, Tranrotor do love those multi motor setups ! Is it sitting on the floor ?:eek:
 

jespera

Active Member
Jan 12, 2018
116
71
35
Copenhagen
#43
David,

a gentleman called Pierre Lurne was involved with the development and production of some of the
goldmund tables. He later marketed his own tonearms and turntables under the names Lurne and
Audiomeca. Superficially, they look a lot like the goldmunds. How do you rate these products?

Jesper
 

Anerol

Well-Known Member
Sep 29, 2012
20
2
235
Yverdon-les-Bains, Switzerland
#44
Beautiful TT, Tranrotor do love those multi motor setups ! Is it sitting on the floor ?:eek:
Sorry but YES. These are the actual pictures from the guy who sold it to me. This table is a giant and does not fit naturally on any standard rack. I use the table on the top shelf o& my rack but it eats up the whole space you need normally for two turntables.
 
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Lagonda

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Feb 4, 2014
1,407
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525
Denmark
#45
Sorry but YES. These are the actual pictures from the guy who sold it to me. This table is a giant and does not fit naturally on any standard rack. I use the table on the top shelf o& my rack but it eats up the whole space you need normally for two turntables.
Transrotors are often works of art as much as functional TT’s :) How does that beauty sound ?
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
4,771
1,473
585
Utah
#46
I have a question to the Thorens Reference owners among you. Did you ever try a hard mat on this table while replacing the felt mat it comes with? What was your experienc?
I have tried a hard graphite mat and a copper mat with with mine mostly because I find the armboards too high in respect to platter height and my tonearms bottom out with some cartridges. In both instances the sound firmed up specially in the bass but I still preferred to the overall sound with the felt mat. I actually love the Reference's sounds, it's somewhat colored when compared to something like the AS2000 but it has a mesmerizing beauty not found in excellent but ordinary turntables, hence the Beyond title.
Talking of super turntables from a European perspective you can’t ignore Transrotor. These are some pictures of my Transrotor Quintessence. It was designed a bit later than the Thorens Reference. Not sure at all if it was ever exported to the US. Has anyone seen one on your side of the pond?

Simpler than that is not possible. No electronics that can fail. Just a power supply and Pabst Aussenläufer Motors and speed adjustment is done by pushing the motor housing closer or further away from the platter. The secret of the design though is that every element stands on its own feet. No tension between any of the elements of the table.

Provides for an extremely relaxed but precise sound.
I owned a Transrotor in the past and have clients who own/owned them too, sorry to be harsh and I hope that you don't take offense but IMO they're middle of the road quality at best and have nothing to do with turntables in the Beyond category here. The only reason there's not even a simple frequency controller with this table is because Transrotor doesn't know how to build one to sync the motors. Adjusting speed by tightening up the belt, and in this case multiple belts, is the most primitive and inconsistent way a turntable manufacturer can come up with to adjust speed. There are electronic speed controllers going back to the 60's and still working today, they wont fail if built right. Tightening and loosening of the belt also affects the sound quality!

david
 
Last edited:
Likes: Lagonda

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
4,771
1,473
585
Utah
#47
David,

a gentleman called Pierre Lurne was involved with the development and production of some of the
goldmund tables. He later marketed his own tonearms and turntables under the names Lurne and
Audiomeca. Superficially, they look a lot like the goldmunds. How do you rate these products?

Jesper
The Audio Meca J1 was pretty much a slightly updated Goldmund Studio and it sounded pretty much the same, never saw the Romance but doesn't look like much in the pictures.

david
 

jespera

Active Member
Jan 12, 2018
116
71
35
Copenhagen
#48
The Audio Meca J1 was pretty much a slightly updated Goldmund Studio and it sounded pretty much the same, never saw the Romance but doesn't look like much in the pictures.

david
The j1 was a belt drive though. I used to own one. It was eaten by a lenco. But thats a story for another thread.

Jesper
 

Lagonda

VIP/Donor
Feb 4, 2014
1,407
1,250
525
Denmark
#49
The j1 was a belt drive though. I used to own one. It was eaten by a lenco. But thats a story for another thread.

Jesper
Jesper you need to keep your Lencos on a leash, apparently ;)
 
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jdza

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2010
247
90
328
#50
I have a question to the Thorens Reference owners among you. Did you ever try a hard mat on this table while replacing the felt mat it comes with? What was your experienc?
Like DDK I found the armpods too high for proper VTA setting on some of my my preferred arms. Using lower profile pods doesn't help as the arms still hit the top of the table itself. Not wishing to mess with the sound of the turntable too much I use the thick Achromat on top of the felt. The reasoning behind this being to have essentially a thicker record.Seems to work for me. The arms that will fit i.e. EMT 997 and Reed 3P just have to live with that.

Thorens seems to have worked very hard to remove any hint of metal sound from the platter. To me,introducing a metal mat seems contrary to the original design aims. But that is just my opinion.
 

Anerol

Well-Known Member
Sep 29, 2012
20
2
235
Yverdon-les-Bains, Switzerland
#51
I have tried a hard graphite mat and a copper mat with with mine mostly because I find the armboards too high in respect to platter height and my tonearms bottom out with some cartridges. In both instances the sound firmed up specially in the bass but I still preferred to the overall sound with the felt mat. I actually love the Reference's sounds, it's somewhat colored when compared to something like the AS2000 but it has a mesmerizing beauty not found in excellent but ordinary turntables, hence the Beyond title.

Let me start by saying that I am very pleased to be able to exchange with other owners of this table. Hard to find people who own them and are really interested in them.

I agree with the observation that the armboards are sometimes too low to properly install a tonearm. I have this problem with a Fidelity Research 64-S at present. And I hear your comments on felt mat against hard mat. Did you ever try to double the felt mat? Wouldn’t that get you away with both problems. Maintaining the sound and having enough headroom?

I owned a Transrotor in the past and have clients who own/owned them too, sorry to be harsh and I hope that you don't take offense but IMO they're middle of the road quality at best and have nothing to do with turntables in the Beyond category here. The only reason there's not even a simple frequency controller with this table is because Transrotor doesn't know how to build one to sync the motors. Adjusting speed by tightening up the belt, and in this case multiple belts, is the most primitive and inconsistent way a turntable manufacturer can come up with to adjust speed. There are electronic speed controllers going back to the 60's and still working today, they wont fail if built right. Tightening and loosening of the belt also affects the sound quality!

david
No hard feelings on the Transrotor. I own two. The Iron which I redid for two tonearms 9 and 12 inches. And I own the Quintessence. It doesn’t bother me, that the speed adjustment isn’t electronically regulated and adjustable. Once it is done it is done.

The sound of a table is a difficult thing. I don’t have identical arms and cartridges for two tables. Furthermore, you might argue that each table has a preferred combination which you have to find first and than compare the two. Anyway, I take your comment on board and listen carefully again.
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
4,771
1,473
585
Utah
#52
No hard feelings on the Transrotor. I own two. The Iron which I redid for two tonearms 9 and 12 inches. And I own the Quintessence. It doesn’t bother me, that the speed adjustment isn’t electronically regulated and adjustable. Once it is done it is done.

The sound of a table is a difficult thing. I don’t have identical arms and cartridges for two tables. Furthermore, you might argue that each table has a preferred combination which you have to find first and than compare the two. Anyway, I take your comment on board and listen carefully again.
Hi Anerol,
I have no such argument, preferred combination is personal. IME you can pretty much tell the character of a real high end turntable with any decent tonearm and cartridge that one is familiar with.

david
 

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