Tidal or Competitor Without a Computer (like Spotify)

May 30, 2010
15,076
473
83
Portugal
#62
Bill - no. But I have tried a few different interface methods and USB devices etc. Ked brought a USB one round that I thought was pretty dire.

Anyway it's just a cheap solution anyone can try.

Ked. Bring one round. I bet you £1k you cannot reliably tell me the difference at better than 7 out of 10 tracks blindfolded.

Make that £2K.

Up for it?

I am.

:)
Listening tests need proper positive validation and controls. First tell us of something of similar type where you have reliably found a difference of better than 7 out of 10 tracks blindfolded.
 

asiufy

Member Sponsor
Jul 8, 2011
3,155
244
63
San Diego, CA
almaaudio.com
#63
Thank you very much for your detailed reply.

We don’t want noisy, digital-carrying ethernet wire near phono stages, correct? So is that why we keep the server far away and we use the MSB Pro USB to take the digital signal out of the streamer’s USB port at the server end, and send the digital signal to the MSB Pro ISL at the MSB DAC end, and then we connect the Pro ISL to the MSB DAC?

This lets us use fiber optic cable from the Pro USB all the way to the DAC. Do I understand this correctly?

Or is the Pro ISL used only if one is using a physical media transport?
Ron,

Upon assessing your particular situation, I believe the best interface for you, for an MSB DAC would be indeed ProISL + ProUSB module. That will allow you to stream directly from any USB-based device (Innuos, cheap Mac, your phone), and if MSB's claims are real, the actual server/device being used will have less impact than through regular USB due to the noise suppression performed by the combo ProISL+ProUSB.
Again, I haven't really heard that combo, and I don't like commenting on things I haven't heard, but I know what the ProISL can do with spinning discs, so if it's even remotely close to how their transport sounds (via ProISL), we're all in for a real treat :)

cheers,
Alex
 
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KeithR

VIP/Donor
May 7, 2010
3,517
397
83
Marina del Rey, CA
#64
We don’t want noisy, digital-carrying ethernet wire near phono stages, correct? So is that why we keep the server far away and we use the MSB Pro USB to take the digital signal out of the streamer’s USB port at the server end, and send the digital signal to the MSB Pro ISL at the MSB DAC end, and then we connect the Pro ISL to the MSB DAC?
since when is ethernet a noise problem and particularly isolated ethernet as Innuos does?
 
Likes: Folsom

User211

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2014
1,246
131
63
#65
Listening tests need proper positive validation and controls. First tell us of something of similar type where you have reliably found a difference of better than 7 out of 10 tracks blindfolded.
Never done one. Ever. Gotta be pretty desperate to bother and probably way too serious. Not denying it would be interesting.

Micro I was playing with Ked. We do that with each other.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
6,330
810
113
Beverly Hills, CA
#66
Ron,

Upon assessing your particular situation, I believe the best interface for you, for an MSB DAC would be indeed ProISL + ProUSB module. That will allow you to stream directly from any USB-based device (Innuos, cheap Mac, your phone), and if MSB's claims are real, the actual server/device being used will have less impact than through regular USB due to the noise suppression performed by the combo ProISL+ProUSB.
Again, I haven't really heard that combo, and I don't like commenting on things I haven't heard, but I know what the ProISL can do with spinning discs, so if it's even remotely close to how their transport sounds (via ProISL), we're all in for a real treat :)

cheers,
Alex
Thank you Alex (and Emile). That sounds like the right thing for me eventually: I can keep the Innuos streamer away from the audio source rack, use the Pro USB at the streamer end and the Pro ISL at the DAC end.

Does the Innuos streamer have to be connected to my wi-fi via an ethernet cable?

Is connecting the streamer to the wi-fi router how the streamer gets the Qobuz digital signal and is able to be controlled by an iPad operating on wi-fi?
 

Taiko Audio

Active Member
Feb 10, 2017
434
220
43
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
#67
Thank you Alex (and Emile). That sounds like the right thing for me eventually: I can keep the Innuos streamer away from the audio source rack, use the Pro USB at the streamer end and the Pro ISL at the DAC end.

Does the Innuos streamer have to be connected to my wi-fi via an ethernet cable?

Is connecting the streamer to the wi-fi router how the streamer gets the Qobuz digital signal and is able to be controlled by an iPad operating on wi-fi?
I don't know if Innuos has wifi by default or as an option, I'm sure Alex does, but if not you could probably hook it up to an apple airport express for wi-fi support.

The streamer just needs an internet connection, wired ethernet or wi-fi, does not matter functionally.
 

thedudeabides

Well-Known Member
Jan 16, 2011
1,269
36
48
Alto, NM
#68
You’ve just opened another momumental can of worms/maze to navigate!
My experience exactly. I bought an Auralic Aries and an iPad, subscribed to Tidal and disconnected / sold / returned all the following day. Took a computer consultant 1.5 hours to navigate all the techno crap to install and when it finally was up and running, the software sucked. A huge disappointment. My first and last foray into the hidef streaming world. Sticking with my Magnum Dynalab XM tuner.
 
Likes: NorthStar
Aug 6, 2012
1,432
17
38
Milford, Michigan
#70
Ron
Pick up something like the under $800 Small Green Computer i5. Attach that to your network anywhere in your home. That is where Roon Core will reside and allow access to either Tidal or Qobuz. You then attach your MSB device via ethernet to your network and voila you have outstanding SQ all at your fingertips, You will also need a iPad or laptop (both wireless) connected to your network. Don't fiddle with USB or other connections, ethernet is the way to go.

Note: If you want to have them add a SSD drive (as I did) to the i5, you can place your own music files on the network there if you ever desire.

PS: I see they are one of your advertisers.

I can'r figure why anyone would want to dangle a laptop or similar device off their audio system. That's like hanging fuzzy dice on a Ferrari's mirror. Hide that stuff in a closet.
 
Last edited:
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marty

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
1,301
177
63
Far Hills, NJ
#71
Isn’t seven out of 10 statistically significant?
This is actually a meaningful question and without delving into statistical gobblygook, the short answer is:

Discerning a difference 70% of the time might be statistically meaningful to some but in general it’s a low hurdle. In the science world, if you don’t show that something is significant with a probability that your results will be better than chance 90% of the time (depending on the design of the study and type of analysis performed) you probably won’t be able to get it published anywhere except the “Journal of Irreproducible Results”. (Believe me, I’ve tried.) Most credible journals require outcome probability better than chance alone of 95% (p< 0.05) which is really the gold standard.

So, 7 out of 10, not particularly impressive; 8 out of 10, a bit better; 9 out of 10, now yer talkin’; 9.5 out of 10; homerun!
 

Folsom

VIP/Donor
Oct 26, 2015
3,364
226
63
Eastern WA
#72
This is actually a meaningful question and without delving into statistical gobblygook, the short answer is:

Discerning a difference 70% of the time might be statistically meaningful to some but in general it’s a low hurdle. In the science world, if you don’t show that something is significant with a probability that your results will be better than chance 90% of the time (depending on the design of the study and type of analysis performed) you probably won’t be able to get it published anywhere except the “Journal of Irreproducible Results”. (Believe me, I’ve tried.) Most credible journals require outcome probability better than chance alone of 95% (p< 0.05) which is really the gold standard.

So, 7 out of 10, not particularly impressive; 8 out of 10, a bit better; 9 out of 10, now yer talkin’; 9.5 out of 10; homerun!
Well and maybe get it added to the Food Pyramid/healthy food lists.
 

asiufy

Member Sponsor
Jul 8, 2011
3,155
244
63
San Diego, CA
almaaudio.com
#73
Thank you Alex (and Emile). That sounds like the right thing for me eventually: I can keep the Innuos streamer away from the audio source rack, use the Pro USB at the streamer end and the Pro ISL at the DAC end.

Does the Innuos streamer have to be connected to my wi-fi via an ethernet cable?

Is connecting the streamer to the wi-fi router how the streamer gets the Qobuz digital signal and is able to be controlled by an iPad operating on wi-fi?
Yes, the Innuos needs to be connected to your house network, via Ethernet cable. It doesn't have Wi-Fi capability on its own, but we've had good success using Wi-Fi extenders.

And you nailed it, once the Innuos is on your network, it'll be able to pull Qobuz data, as well as be controlled from any device sitting on your network, iPad, phone, computer, etc.
 
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asiufy

Member Sponsor
Jul 8, 2011
3,155
244
63
San Diego, CA
almaaudio.com
#74
With all due respect, when I read stuff like this, all I can do is laugh.
Have you had one? I saw your post on the Auralic, and I can completely understand your frustration. All the Innuos products are SUBSTANTIALLY better than Auralic's, in every single aspect.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
6,330
810
113
Beverly Hills, CA
#76
Ron
Pick up something like the under $800 Small Green Computer i5. Attach that to your network anywhere in your home. That is where Roon Core will reside and allow access to either Tidal or Qobuz. You then attach your MSB device via ethernet to your network and voila you have outstanding SQ all at your fingertips, You will also need a iPad or laptop (both wireless) connected to your network. Don't fiddle with USB or other connections, ethernet is the way to go.

Note: If you want to have them add a SSD drive (as I did) to the i5, you can place your own music files on the network there if you ever desire.

PS: I see they are one of your advertisers.

I can'r figure why anyone would want to dangle a laptop or similar device off their audio system. That's like hanging fuzzy dice on a Ferrari's mirror. Hide that stuff in a closet.
Thank you, but I don’t want to add a computer device. I don’t need Roon..

I intend to plug a streamer into an ethernet jack
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
7,481
505
113
#77
Thank you, but I don’t want to add a computer device. I don’t need Roon..

I intend to plug a streamer into an ethernet jack
any 'streamer' is also a computer device. the degree of capability might vary. the music selection software for the streaming service has to reside somewhere. and this computing device can be your phone.

the only exception would be if your dac also has the computing device built in designed to handle the streaming service (like a smart phone does). likely not ideal for performance. and MSB dacs do not work this way. typically you would use your phone or a tablet as a remote (over wifi) to select specific music.
 
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spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
8,086
722
113
E. England
#79
Dallyboy, U1 Mini is in pole position for my streaming option, going into a Kitsune Level 3 Holo Springs dac.
My local dealer loves this combination.

If you're familiar w it, which would you favour re connection to dac - USB, AES/EBU or I2S?
 

Dallyboy

New Member
Mar 15, 2019
6
0
1
59
#80
Hi Spiritofmusic,
I found that I do prefer the AES/EBU and the I2S over USB. Both provided a dense staurated sound with better dynamics and sound staging then USB. Tough call on which was better though. I do favour the AES a bit more then the I2S but really it will be your system an ears that will tell you which way to go.
 

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