Tonearm height & SRA misconception

ianm0

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Feb 22, 2018
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It’s been widely accepted that changing a 9” tonearm’s height by 4 mm will approximately alter the SRA by 1 degree. This contradicts valid – to me - claims by audiophiles that they can hear the difference when the aforementioned height changes by a fraction of a mm.

Bear in mind the tonearm + cantilever/stylus combo is NOT a RIGID system. The latter can rotate about the suspension point.

The following slide explains why I’m with them:
L = length of cantilever; d ~ stylus height; s = change in height of tonearm Tonearm height SRA slide.jpg
 

ianm0

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Feb 22, 2018
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Since my post above, few friends expressed they had difficulty to understand the math involved. It is actutally quite simple, but I did not do a good job explaining it. So I decided to tidy up the write-up. Here it goes:

Tonearm Height and SRA

It’s been widely accepted that changing a 9” tonearm’s height by 4 mm will approximately alter the SRA by 1 degree. This contradicts valid – to me - claims by audiophiles that they can hear the difference when the aforementioned height changes by a fraction of a mm.

First some facts:

  • Raise/lower a 9” tonearm by 4 mm è Tonearm elevation changes by 1o, true or false? True
  • Raise/lower a 9” tonearm by 4 mm è Change SRA/VTA by 1 o, true or false? False
Bear in mind the tonearm + cantilever/stylus combo is NOT a RIGID system. The latter can rotate about the suspension point.
1661389637887.png
Tonearm/cantilever suspension point raised/lowered by a distance s, one can deduce from the marked distances on the right third of the above figure:

L (sin ?2 – sin ?1) - d (cos ?1 – cos ?2) = s

Since d << L (d/L ~0.1), L (sin ?2 – sin ?1) ? s (Eq. 1)

For illustration, let L = 5 mm, ?1 = 20 deg,

Then from Eq. (1): sin ?2 = s/5 + sin (20 deg) = s/5 + 0.342

Results of different values of s are given in the following table:


s (mm)?2 (deg)
0.121.2
0.222.5
0.323.7
Conclusion: fraction of mm results in significant change in SRA. Note: slight over estimates
 
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dave slagle

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Bear in mind the tonearm + cantilever/stylus combo is NOT a RIGID system. The latter can rotate about the suspension point.

I am conceptually having a problem with how a change in tonearm height can cause a rotation around the suspension point.

You suggest that the increase in tonearm height causes a difference between ?AS1C1 and ?AS2C2 but I do not see that happening since the tonearm pivot will also adjust to compensate for the change in height. The only way I see angles AS1C1 and AS2C2 changing is if the VTF is changed. Granted some tonearms do show a slight change in VTF with a change in tonearm height but I would expect that effect to be minimal. The change in SRA from VTF however can be substantial. For a stock Denon 103 suspension, I have seen what is approximately a 1.4° change in cantilever angle when changing VTF from 1.8g to 2.5g.

All of the above said... I really have a hard time trying to explain how a seemingly small adjustment of tonearm height (~0.5mm) can have such a dramatic effect on the sound.

dave

Screen Shot 2022-08-25 at 8.32.34 AM.png
 
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mtemur

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I am conceptually having a problem with how a change in tonearm height can cause a rotation around the suspension point.

You suggest that the increase in tonearm height causes a difference between ?AS1C1 and ?AS2C2 but I do not see that happening since the tonearm pivot will also adjust to compensate for the change in height. The only way I see angles AS1C1 and AS2C2 changing is if the VTF is changed. Granted some tonearms do show a slight change in VTF with a change in tonearm height but I would expect that effect to be minimal. The change in SRA from VTF however can be substantial. For a stock Denon 103 suspension, I have seen what is approximately a 1.4° change in cantilever angle when changing VTF from 1.8g to 2.5g.

All of the above said... I really have a hard time trying to explain how a seemingly small adjustment of tonearm height (~0.5mm) can have such a dramatic effect on the sound.

dave

View attachment 97216
I totally agree. There is something wrong with the assumption of a rotation of cantilever on suspension point by only altering tonearm height. S1 and S2 angles should be equal. there is a misconception on @ianm0 initial drawing.

As @dave slagle said earlier vtf can change due to a change in tonearm height if it’s a statically balanced tonearm (if tonearm is dynamically balanced it does not change) but that’s not related with the subject.
Bear in mind the tonearm + cantilever/stylus combo is NOT a RIGID system. The latter can rotate about the suspension point.
Ok it’s not a rigid system but that doesn’t mean the cantilever will bend more or less on suspension point with a change in tonearm height when measured vtf is unchanged. I don’t say that 0.1mm difference on vta doesn’t make any difference and people can not hear it. Regardless of people can hear 0.1mm difference on vta or not there is a misconception on initial drawing.
 
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ianm0

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Feb 22, 2018
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To address your first point. When the tonearm height changes and the stylus remains in contact with the record surface, the cantilever must rotate somewhat when the suspension is not a RIGID point. If it were rigid, the rotation of the tonearm about its pivot will have to totally accomodate that change in height. Then for a 9" arm, changing tonearm height by 4 mm changing SRA by 1 deg is approximately correct.
I agree with you that the tonearm could rotate about the pivot, and that is something which I did not include. That would reduce the change of the SRA due to the rotation of the cantilever, but definitely does not eliminate the effect of this latter rotation. The amount of reduction depends on the compliance of the cartridge. That's why I mentioned the numbers I presented are overestimates.
I have an Audiomod Series 6 tonearm with a micrometer for adjusting VTA. I use a cartridge with Paractrace stylus with it. I could hear a discernable difference when the VTA changes by 0.2 mm. Caveat: I did not restore the VTF to its previous value. I could only surmise, without proof, that the slight change in VTF due to the change in tonearm height ALSO contributes by twisting the cantilever about the vertical axis, resulting in different contact surfaces between the stylus and the record grooves. I stand to be corrected on that and will leave that to others who are equipped to scrutinize this conjecture.
 

mtemur

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Caveat: I did not restore the VTF to its previous value. I could only surmise, without proof, that the slight change in VTF due to the change in tonearm height ALSO contributes by twisting the cantilever about the vertical axis, resulting in different contact surfaces between the stylus and the record grooves. I stand to be corrected on that and will leave that to others who are equipped to scrutinize this conjecture.

Additional to the change in vtf you also change overhang, azimuth and zenith alignments when you change the tonearm height depending on the design of your tonearm. Zenith and azimuth alignments have a much more impact on sound IME and the difference you hear most probably due to change on those alignments.

When the tonearm height changes and the stylus remains in contact with the record surface, the cantilever must rotate somewhat when the suspension is not a RIGID point. If it were rigid, the rotation of the tonearm about its pivot will have to totally accomodate that change in height.
No, cantilever doesn’t act different IOT bend suspension more or less if the vtf stays the same when you change tonearm height. The difference you see should be based on change in vtf as you mentioned earlier if your cartridge has a healthy suspension
 

ianm0

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Feb 22, 2018
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Additional to the change in vtf you also change overhang, azimuth and zenith alignments when you change the tonearm height depending on the design of your tonearm. Zenith and azimuth alignments have a much more impact on sound IME and the difference you hear most probably due to change on those alignments.


No, cantilever doesn’t act different IOT bend suspension more or less if the vtf stays the same when you change tonearm height. The difference you see should be based on change in vtf as you mentioned earlier if your cartridge has a healthy suspension
The only point I was trying to make is only geometrical: changing tonearm height by 4 mm does not mean SRA changes by 1 deg. I totally agree that the difference we hear is due to change in VTF, azimuth, zenith, etc. But the exact explanation probably is too complex an issue for all of us to agree on. I have no problem with that.
 

ianm0

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Feb 22, 2018
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Same here, but small height adjustments are clearly audible. Clearly seen on Analog Magik too.
Me too. The entire purpose of my post was to alert people not to religiously follow that 4mm is equivalent to 1 deg, especially when they think they have measured SRA "precisely" using a microscope. It's been repeated by many others that all adjustable parameters are inter-related and changing one will alter the others. Perhaps we need multiple iterations of adjusting all these parameters in succession until convergence is achieved, if ever. But be mindful that difficulty of convergence gets exponentially unachievable as more parameters are involved.
I want to re-emphasize the numbers cited in the table of my OP were only for illustration to achive my aforementioned purpose and not to be taken as rules, not even as guidelines. Reason: the tonearm rotation about its pivot is not accounted for, as Dave pointed out.
 
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J.R. Boisclair

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Iamn0, thanks for bringing this thread to my attention. Here’s my thoughts:

When you raise and lower a non-tangential tonearm the point of rotation is actually in two locations without fail: about the stylus tip AND at the horizontal junction of the line formed by the offset angle and the armtube (I'm oversimplifying here for ease of understanding). These two points remain the only points of rotation UNLESS VTF changes as tonearm height changes. In such cases there will ALSO be rotation of the cantilever with the point of rotation being behind the coil former. This condition will then have the effect of lowering/raising the cantilever pivot point relative to the record surface, thereby changing SRA/VTA.

Assuming NO change in VTF when tonearm height is changed (which would require a tonearm in which the arm’s horizontal pivot was coincident to the arm/cartridge center of gravity - this is quite uncommon despite some tonearm manufacturer claims), you are correct if you are trying to make the point that a ~4 mm change in tonearm height will cause approximately 0.1 mm change in height of the cantilever’s point of rotation (again, behind the coil former). In my cartridge analysis reports I include a statistic where I measure what happens to SRA/VTA if the height of the cartridge drops by 0.1 mm (which is not out of the realm of possibility for some cartridges as they break in). The formula uses starting cantilever angle and cantilever length as factors but the result is always somewhere around 1 degree.

Now to those who can hear differences with tiny changes to arm height: I believe it is *possible* to hear a fraction of a mm in height change, though it does beg for blind testing. I am NOT saying such people are fooling themselves. I am simply saying that it seems unlikely to me that one could consistently discern whether the tonearm height was changed by, say, 0.2mm. However, I have been surprised MANY times before in this hobby so I am prepared to be wrong about this. As mentioned above by the very knowledgeable fellows Dave Slagle and Mtemur, a change in arm height causes changes to azimuth (as a function of the offset angle) and usually also VTF AT LEAST. Now, when VTF changes you can expect a host of conditions change for playback that are intrinsic to the motor function and even to the resonance of the cartridge/arm union.

By way of reference, on the Kuzma 4point tonearm the center of gravity is so far above the horizontal bearing that changing tonearm height makes almost no impact on rake due to increasing/decreasing VTF - but it most certainly changes the sound! The Kuzma is rather unique in having a COG above the horizontal bearing, of course. On perhaps most tonearms, the COG is below the bearing and the principal is reversed: changes to arm height result in disproportionately large changes to SRA/VTA.

The more research our team does, the more I become convinced that we should usually refer to “SRA/VTA” instead of the individual components separately. This is because changing tonearm height changes both SRA and VTA (obviously) but we need to understand that the impact of angular changes for each are sensitive for different reasons/conditions and each has its own target ideal based upon cutterhead design and alignment. SRA is sensitive almost exclusively to horizontal modulation of the groove content and VTA is sensitive exclusively to vertical modulation of the groove. This will be the subject of our second technical paper to submit to the Journal of Audio Engineering Society. For now, suffice it to say that of the cartridge alignment parameters (SRA/VTA, azimuth, zenith) both SRA and VTA are the LEAST sensitive to angular change - even on a fine line contact stylus. This has been confirmed in finite element analysis and again in Matlab.

This relative lack of sensitivity is a REALLY good thing for us since cutting rake angle and torque tube cutting angles are NOT uniformly targeted by engineers nor even by European vs American cutterhead design (UNLIKE the last two parameters which are not up for debate: azimuth and collinearity of the lacquer's radial line with the two cutting edges of the cutting stylus, a.k.a., "zenith"). However, with the advent of stereo cutting and its required vertical modulations of the lacquer's grooves, engineers have generally agreed to use between a 18-20 degree torque (a.k.a. torsion) tube angle since that is the overlap range for American and European cutterheads. It is not common to find a cartridge manufacturer that has the guts to aim for that - so we FORCE it to happen and enjoy the results!

So, while I have no doubt people hear changes in sound quality when they change tonearm height, I have significant doubts that it can be attributed wholly (probably not even "mostly") to changes in SRA/VTA.

Our cartridge analysis database shows that the average SRA/VTA correction needed amongst the entire data set is more than 3° (there are two interesting reasons for this). That angular change is more than just about any tonearm will allow, so we make custom shims to accommodate. The usual trope states that when you lower the tonearm too much things get muddy and flabby and you lose high frequencies, etc. However, most cartridges need their butt down by 3° or more. If the oft-spun axiom about the "sound" of raising/lowering tonearm height were true ABOUT SRA/VTA, then most of the cartridges WAM Engineering optimizes would sound horribly muddy, dead and lacking in any high frequency vitality. However, that is the exact opposite of what we - and our clients - find. There are other forces at play when the tonearm height changes. I can think of a few more such elements in play but haven’t done the research yet to know whether they are significant or barely noteworthy so I'll keep those thoughts to myself for now.

I hope that helps.
 
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ianm0

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Feb 22, 2018
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Iamn0, thanks for bringing this thread to my attention. Here’s my thoughts:

When you raise and lower a non-tangential tonearm the point of rotation is actually in two locations without fail: about the stylus tip AND at the horizontal junction of the line formed by the offset angle and the armtube (I'm oversimplifying here for ease of understanding). These two points remain the only points of rotation UNLESS VTF changes as tonearm height changes. ....
Thank you for the very enlightening reply.
First I am in total agreement about the complexity of how the different adjustable parameters are intertwined and can affect what many could hear. Not dissimilar to how the stock market can be affected by the web of correlated economic factors Greed and fear added to be mix as much as blind tests of audiophiles. :)
Secondly, the abbreviated quote from your post confirms my assertion that SRA, which in turn affects other parameters you indicated, is not affected solely by the rotation of the tonearm about the pivot. The rotation of the cantilever about the suspension also plays a part - no general rule for quantitative guideline here: depends on tonearm, cartridge, VTF, tonearm effective mass, .... That repudiates the general belief than 4 mm - 1 degree SRA is a misguidance, and that's the sole purpose for my OP.
Finally, when the cantilever/stylus rotates about the suspension, the "line" of contact between stylus and record grooves also changes, which in turn changes contact area, zenith, etc. All hese change the INDIVIDUAL forces acting on the stylus by the record grooves and the cantilever, and that account for the differences we hear. Note: WE MUST VIEW THE STYLUS - APPROXIMATELY A PARTICLE - AS THE DYNAMICAL SYSTEM to appreciate the significance of this view. Do not include the cantilever. Everything in contact with the stylus exerts EXTERNAL forces on the stylus. But I think I should stop here in order not to divert the tangent of the OP, which deals with geometry only, no dynamics consideration necessary.

Thank you once again.
 

J.R. Boisclair

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I forgot to mention that tonearms with a properly implemented horizontal bearing offset yoke allow tonearm height changes to keep azimuth angle undisturbed. The worst offenders of changes to multiple parameters by small changes to tonearm height are free-rolling unipivots.
 
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mtemur

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I forgot to mention that tonearms with a properly implemented horizontal bearing offset yoke allow tonearm height changes to keep azimuth angle undisturbed
it’s sad to see that SAT tonearms don’t have offset on horizontal bearing and center point of bearings is higher than record surface. I wonder why designer didn’t consider a better approach regarding those issues cause it’s such a nice sounding tonearm.
 
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sombunya

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I just replaced the cart on my Music Hall 9.1. If I knew someplace where I could have it set up properly, I'd pay the money. I don't, and I don't want to ship.
 

sombunya

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In order to get a suggestion it would be helpful to specify your location. Good luck with your setup.
You’re right. Sorry. I live near Los Angeles.
 

sig8

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Can someone suggest a good usb microscope and software for SRA correction for cartridges?
 

J.R. Boisclair

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Can someone suggest a good usb microscope and software for SRA correction for cartridges?
Hello @sig8

Download the attachments at the bottom of this blog article for a model number and parts: https://www.wallyanalog.com/post/stylus-rake-angle-webinar

I really suggest you do not get any borescope at all. Their light sensors are absolutely worthless. I tried to make them work. Their price was right but you get what you pay for: garbage.
 

tima

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Can someone suggest a good usb microscope and software for SRA correction for cartridges?

I've tried doing this in the past and it is almost impossible to do it right. Getting the lens close enough and correctly parallel to the 'side' of the stylus is difficult. The slightest movement of the microscope makes repeatable measurement difficult -- the support holding your turntable and tool must be very very stable. The software that comes with the USB 'scopes such as DinoLite -- used for drawing angles -- is somewhat clumsy and dependent on drawing with a mouse or trackball which typically do not have sufficiently fine-grained increments of movement.

The only approach I know of that trys to tackle these issue is the WallyScope from J.R. Boisclair. I applaud him for doing the work to make this possible. I read through the manual for the WallyScope. I suppose after you train yourself many times maybe it is "quick and easy" but, imo, there is a lot of work to it. It's a nice kit for $1500
 
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J.R. Boisclair

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I've tried doing this in the past and it is almost impossible to do it right. Getting the lens close enough and correctly parallel to the 'side' of the stylus is difficult. The slightest movement of the microscope makes repeatable measurement difficult -- the support holding your turntable and tool must be very very stable. The software that comes with the USB 'scopes such as DinoLite -- used for drawing angles -- is somewhat clumsy and dependent on drawing with a mouse or trackball which typically do not have sufficiently fine-grained increments of movement.

The only approach I know of that trys to tackle these issue is the WallyScope from J.R. Boisclair. I applaud him for doing the work to make this possible. I read through the manual for the WallyScope. I suppose after you train yourself many times maybe it is "quick and easy" but, imo, there is a lot of work to it. It's a nice kit for $1500
You are correct, @tima . Microscopy isn’t for the impatient or those lacking dexterity. There are too many ways to make the measurement exercise a miserable one.

It is a shame that some of the cartridge manufacturers are actually measuring SRA before shipping but they are not sharing the results with the customers. I know with a high degree of confidence that few people have heard their cartridges at their optimum because almost no one - other than my clients - shim their cartridges to achieve those angles; the average correction being 3.1 degrees which is much more than most any tonearm will allow. Even if it did, the vector forces on the arm change too much from the level position and it doesn’t behave ideally.

In any case, raising or lowering your tonearm affects as many as FOUR variables impacting cartridge performance so the listening method is highly unreliable road to optimization certitude
 

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