Toward a Better WBF…
- Thread starter Lee
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Oh, that’s quite good. Thanks jazdoc.I will self reference an ancient but evergreen post:
How To Compose A Sucessful Critical Commentary
Ran across this and thought it might engender some interesting discussion... Daniel Dennett poses an apt question that probes some of the basic tendencies and dynamics of today’s everyone-is-a-critic culture: “Just how charitable are you supposed to be when criticizing the views of an...www.whatsbestforum.com
Lee, speaking only as a regular member, I very much appreciate the underlying sentiment. I agree with the underlying sentiment.
But the reality is that when you deal with the public on the internet some of the discourse will never be as genteel, respectful and genuinely cordial as we might like it to be.
I happen to agree very often with Kedar. We sometimes come at topics from different directions, but we often wind up in agreement and at the same place. We have accompanied each other to countless joint auditions for years now.
Like many members, in my opinion, Kedar occasionally mistakes subjective opinion and personal preference for objective truth. I think Kedar is intellectually honest (a big thing for me personally), and his very strong opinions are experience-based, for which I give him credit. Because his opinions are experience-based he is able to change even long-held opinions, and therefore, in my opinion, is not dogmatic.
He is sometimes sharp with me and others too. But I believe that I don't get emotional about any of this. You just have to kind of let it go and ignore it. At least Kedar, unlike many, can take a written punch as well as he throws one. Kedar remains unemotional as well.
Also Kedar tends to be black-and-white about many components, whereas I, personally, am much more graduated and forgiving. In 2015 Kedar was at "Wilson sucks!" Today, at least, he has evolved to disliking specific Wilson models for specific reasons.
Bottom line Lee: don't take it personally!
PS: "Cordial" is a high standard of polite and respectful discussion. It may not be the correct standard for the Terms of Service.
As a practical matter I believe the moderator panel focuses, correctly, more on castigating rudeness than it does on upholding cordiality. I think the moderator panel does a fantastic job of calibrating when and if passionate discourse and strongly held opinions cross the line into intolerable rudeness. Their job is difficult, and the lines are gray. I think they are doing a great job, and I am grateful for their work!
But the reality is that when you deal with the public on the internet some of the discourse will never be as genteel, respectful and genuinely cordial as we might like it to be.
I happen to agree very often with Kedar. We sometimes come at topics from different directions, but we often wind up in agreement and at the same place. We have accompanied each other to countless joint auditions for years now.
Like many members, in my opinion, Kedar occasionally mistakes subjective opinion and personal preference for objective truth. I think Kedar is intellectually honest (a big thing for me personally), and his very strong opinions are experience-based, for which I give him credit. Because his opinions are experience-based he is able to change even long-held opinions, and therefore, in my opinion, is not dogmatic.
He is sometimes sharp with me and others too. But I believe that I don't get emotional about any of this. You just have to kind of let it go and ignore it. At least Kedar, unlike many, can take a written punch as well as he throws one. Kedar remains unemotional as well.
Also Kedar tends to be black-and-white about many components, whereas I, personally, am much more graduated and forgiving. In 2015 Kedar was at "Wilson sucks!" Today, at least, he has evolved to disliking specific Wilson models for specific reasons.
Bottom line Lee: don't take it personally!
PS: "Cordial" is a high standard of polite and respectful discussion. It may not be the correct standard for the Terms of Service.
As a practical matter I believe the moderator panel focuses, correctly, more on castigating rudeness than it does on upholding cordiality. I think the moderator panel does a fantastic job of calibrating when and if passionate discourse and strongly held opinions cross the line into intolerable rudeness. Their job is difficult, and the lines are gray. I think they are doing a great job, and I am grateful for their work!
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I am with @Lee on this one 100%. There can be differences of opinion without rudeness. For example, I am a vintage horn/Open Baffle guy but I can still respect speaker choices that are wildly different from mine. And I have high-efficiency speakers that are fine with SET amps but I prefer PP tubes. That’s my opinion but there’s no reason to tell other people they’re wrong for choosing SET amps instead.
I think the key is respecting other posters’ opinions whether we agree with them or not.
I think the key is respecting other posters’ opinions whether we agree with them or not.
Yes, and perhaps I am wrong, but I think Lee primarily is responding to Kedar's posts about Wilson speakers. Perhaps I'm wrong. If I am wrong, I apologize, and I will withdraw my post.
In any event most of what I wrote about Kedar was complementary.
I was not specifically responding to that but a general view of several threads where I felt the responses were rude or unnecessarily personal in nature.
I would like to tease this particular example apart for a moment. I think this conflates technology with sound quality.
I believe that dCS Apex is indeed at the forefront of groundbreaking technology. But to me that has little to do with the subjectively perceived sound quality result.
I have enormous respect for dCS' business model and engineering philosophy and technological prowess which results in exactly the sonic attributes they are aiming for. I, personally, just don't happen to care for the resulting sonic attributes.
I see the technology (for which I have great respect) as being separate from the resulting sound quality (which I personally, subjectively, don't happen to care for).
I think this is not very relevant to take my statement out of context, because the original discussion referenced was not about Apex sonically alone, but on the justification of higher prices leading to sonically better systems, to which dCS apex and XVX were presented as shining examples of where prices were justified.
I understand what you are saying. But isn't that where the sonic subjectivity comes in?
In other words you don't think that the higher price of Apex leads to a sonically better component. But for people who think dCS Apex is the best-sounding digital playback they have ever heard, then they will think that the higher price, and the technology underlying the higher price, is justified.
I, personally, wouldn't pay the price of Apex, but that is only because I literally, honest to God, hold my hand over my heart, subjectively prefer the sound of my $6,500 MSRP Lampizator Baltic 4. Obviously, people who love the sound of the dCS components would think I'm "wrong." But that has nothing to do with the fact that I have a enormous respect for the leading edge technology built into the Apex (which I studied extensively preparing for an interview with dCS which did not happen).
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We are not discussing that here. We are talking about a person with an agenda to push higher prices as justified, being challenged, and suggesting that to make WBF a better place, let such comments slip. This is quite different than a debate with an owner or someone who likes dCS saying it is sonically good or better than XYZ dac. We know when it is a subjective debate vs an agenda led debate.
And yet Mike … does the method of delivery necessarily negate to probity of the message !
Have you not just indulged yourself in the very same behaviour with which you sought to moralise upon this forum !Indeed.
Yet it doesn’t necessarily preclude such a mission being too far from the mark tho .
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For the most part I see Nothing that has come out of this thread that has worked ”Toward” the betterment of our forum … Exactly why I dislike any such thread of its ilk which invariably leads to nothing but discord , disharmony and division .
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I see. Well that is where we disagree then on this.
I don't think Lee is pushing an agenda. I don't think he has a pecuniary affiliation with any industry media or any industry manufacturer at this point. (Lee, please correct me if I'm wrong about this.)
I think Lee is posting merely as a passionate owner of the brands and products he actually owns and loves.
Well Yes …. Thats because you are invariably Rong (TM)
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