Trinity DAC

[Matrix]

I wish to thank you all for the welcoming messages !

Elberoth, thank you very much for your suggestion.
For now I'm using a laptop with SSD playing on batteries. I will try to find out more about the CAPS server on CA.
I've read good things about them. Problem is, I couldn't find any readily built ones over here and although I'm not so bad with computers, some parts are not easy to find.
Regarding the two TP LPSs, are you using one for the CAPS server and one for the SOtM tX-USB card ?

Audiocrack, my local distributor doesn't have the Trinity cd-drive/transport yet. It seems all the available production is going to Asia right now.
But as soon as he has one, I'll try to listen to it.

 

[wisnon]

Matrix, where are you? I have a pal in France near Geneva who just built a Caps with parts sourced from Paris and instructions from the US. He loves it.

 

[Elberoth]

I wish to thank you all for the welcoming messages !
For now I'm using a laptop with SSD playing on batteries. I will try to find out more about the CAPS server on CA.

Then you do not even know what Trinity is capable of yet ! CAPS on batteries will literally blow your socks off.

I wish to thank you all for the welcoming messages !
Problem is, I couldn't find any readily built ones over here and although I'm not so bad with computers, some parts are not easy to find.

Get the parts list and bring it to any computer shop to build you one. That is an 1h job for them (5min to assemble the computer, and <45min to install the system with all components). The most important parts are:

- Intel 2800 mother board
- SOtM PCIe USB card
- powersupplies for both (the MoBo and USB card)

Everything else (box, RAM, eSATA SSD) is secondary - you can choose any parts available to you locally.

Regarding the two TP LPSs, are you using one for the CAPS server and one for the SOtM tX-USB card ?

That is correct. You will need two of them: one 12V / 4A (5.5/2.5mm DC plug) and a second one 9V / 2A (5.5/2.1mm DC plug). You can order them from Teddy Pardo site. Teddy is a great guy to work with. Just tell him that you need both with linear transformers (no SMPS inside; I'm mentioning this as they also have a cheaper 12V / 4A PSU with a SMPS inside - you need the one with linear transformer).

You can also get the Red Wine Audio battery PSU instead, that was the part of the original CAPS V3 project. I went with Teddy PSU, as I do not want to remember to charge the batteries. I belive the Red Wine Audio battery PSU may have even greater sonic potential.

 

[Matrix]

Thanks Elberoth and Wisnon, for all the valuable information.

I guess I will have to get a CAPS with 2 PSs ASAP to try with the Trinity

Thanks again.

 

[Don Hills]

I think it's just a little half-hearted to replace only the main power supply with a linear unit while still having multiple switched-mode supplies on the motherboard itself, that generate 5v, 3,3v, 1.8v etc. They are mounted a lot closer to sensitive components, both physically and electrically, and are not designed with low noise in mind.

 

[Elberoth]

Don - you are correct. It still makes a big difference though.

Unfortunately, no one really makes MoBos with audiophiles in mind.

 

[Don Hills]

... Unfortunately, no one really makes MoBos with audiophiles in mind.

Sounds like a market niche to be exploited...

Edit:
Trouble is, unlike cables for example, there is a high cost for development and bringing to market.

It adds weight to my own opinion, that the best fix is a competent DAC that is audibly immune to perturbations (noise, jitter etc) on its input.

 

[wisnon]

That is what the PS-Audio Direct Stream Dac claims....

 

[Elberoth]

That is what the PS-Audio Direct Stream Dac claims....

Even the Berkeley Alpha USB/SPDIF interface - which to my knowledge, has the best isolation from the computer grunge of all the products available on the market today - is not completely immune. This is why companies like Jplay and Audiophile Optimiser are making so much money selling software that minimises active computer processes (and chance also noise).

What you probably meant is that the PS-Audio Direct Stream Dac is immune to the jitter of the incoming SPDIF signal, but that has already beed done with DACs that have FIFO memory buffers (like MSB). Also all DACs that use USB inputs have a buffer at the USB receiver end.

 

[wisnon]

No Adam, they claim more than that, and hence why they say all inputs sound the same.

The PS Audio Direct Stream Dac by Ted Smith claims that they do synchronous oversampling of the input data with no PLL or FLL, just treating the input as Data, finding the edges and stuffing it in a buffer. It is later released by a FPGA digitally controlled VCOX low-jitter master clock and so all inputs and all cables sound the same (Toslink has the added advantage of being competely galvanically isolated).

The actual discussion is here (post 157):
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f...alogue-converter-19591/index7.html#post303309

Video explanation of all the tech here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv1XWedFgDY

 

[Elberoth]

At no point he talks about noise. Only about jitter. No DAC can be immune to the incoming noise, unless you send the signal by optical fibre.

It may be a great solution, but 10-20 years too late, as most people went USB/files route anyway where interface jitter is no longer an issue.

 

[wisnon]

You have to see the video then. That excerpt was only about jitter. Ground noises are eliminated by his fav. Toslink cable as you say and he says too in the video.

I have no idea how it sounds, just that Ted does not have a marketing bone in his body and his talk is interesting. Watch the video, as it good fodder for discussion and there may be a couple points that may make you smile in admiration.

In terms of grunge cleaning, Chord claims a lot of scrubbing in the Hugo, see PPT here:
http://www.aumacoustics.com/chordHUGO/Hugo DAC Technical Master Class.pdf

Hugo
and
noise
floor
modulation

• The
DAC
architecture
has
a
large
influence
on
noise
floor
modulation
–
pulse
array
DAC’s
have
innately
very
low
levels
of
modulation
• The
reference
power
supply
to
the
DAC
is
crucial,
this
is
very
low
noise
and
low
impedance,
with
individual
references
per
channel
• RF
noise
is
a
major
problem
as
it
inter-*?modulates
with
the
analogue
electronics
causing
noise
floor
modulation
–
extensive
RF
filtering
is
employed,
together
with
steps
to
reduce
the
analogue
sensi2vity
• Quad
layer
ground
planes
are
used,
so
that
ground
induced
noise
and
distor2on
is
eliminated
• DSD
sources
have
large
HF
noise
–
this
is
digitally
filtered
by
-*?110dB
at
100kHz
giving
more
natural
sound
quality
for
DSD
• Ji7er
is
a
big
source
of
noise
floor
modula2on
–
incoming
ji7er
is
eliminated
by
a
digital
phase
lock
loop
(DPLL).

Digital
phase
lock
loop
(DPLL)
• The
DPLL,
to
eliminate
incoming
ji7er,
and
to
prevent
low
frequency
ji7er
causing
skirts
on
fundamentals,
has
a
very
low
frequency
0.1Hz
cut-*?off
frequency
• It
has
rapid
lock
acquisi2on
2me
of
1mS
• Hugo
has
a
three
stage
2048FS
filter
in
order
to
reduce
noise
floor
modulation

 

[Elberoth]

Toslink cable trick will only work with SPDIF sources. When using a computer (or SPDIF interface other then TosLink), you still have the electrical connection between the transport and a DAC, with all assiociated problems.

I tried the TosLink output of the Soulution 590 USB converter on my MSB DAC (which has a memory buffer), and indeed the TosLink was preferred over RCA and AES. Even after I switched over to the superior BADA Alpha USB, the TosLink from the Soulution was still prefered.

BTW, here is a hint for MSB owners - the Soulution 590 USB converter was the only one which could lock to the MSB DAC over TosLink at 192kHz.

 

[wisnon]

So Adam, what do you think of Ethernet vs USB as a computer transport connector?

 

[Elberoth]

Ethernet is superior, thanks to both TCP/IP protocol and galvanic isolation (still not 100% effective, but miles better than no isolation at all in USB).

Too bad we had chosen the wrong format (again !).

 

[wisnon]

Lol, Wrong again....story of the industry's life?

 

[microstrip]

Ethernet is superior, thanks to both TCP/IP protocol and galvanic isolation (still not 100% effective, but miles better than no isolation at all in USB).

Too bad we had chosen the wrong format (again !).

Many USB implementations have galvanic isolation and if designers really considered electrical isolation a must they could easily use optocouplers to pass the digital signals. But even optical connections, such as optical fibers, will pass noise, as the intrinsic noise of a digital signal is also sent optically.

IMHO we can not say that one solution is better or worst than others - we have many implementations and we should pick what we find it sounds better.

 

[Elberoth]

Many USB implementations have galvanic isolation and if designers really considered electrical isolation a must they could easily use optocouplers to pass the digital signals.

Please point me to the DACs that emply galvanic isolation on USB Class 2.0 inputs. To the best of my knowledge, those devices that do employ galvanic isolation, are 24/96kHz limited. Even then, gavlanic isolation doesn't give you 100% isolation. This is another myth.

The optocouplers aren't a magic bullet either - as superior performance can be achived using high speed CMOS and monolithic transformer technologies (this is what the Berkeley guys are using in the Berkeley Alpha USB).

But even optical connections, such as optical fibers, will pass noise, as the intrinsic noise of a digital signal is also sent optically.

Yes, but to MUCH lesser extent, as the ground connection - which is a gateway to the DACs coversion circuits - is broken.

 

[microstrip]

Please point me to the DACs that emply galvanic isolation on USB Class 2.0 inputs. To the best of my knowledge, those devices that do employ galvanic isolation, are 24/96kHz limited. Even then, gavlanic isolation doesn't give you 100% isolation. This is another myth.

The optocouplers aren't a magic bullet either - as superior performance can be achived using high speed CMOS and monolithic transformer technologies (this is what the Berkeley guys are using in the Berkeley Alpha USB).

Yes, but to MUCH lesser extent, as the ground connection - which is a gateway to the DACs coversion circuits - is broken.

At less the Bladelius (never heard about it before, but it was the first of the google search ) - and I hope it is not the single one: "Accepts data up to 24 bit/192 kHz , USB powered, Asynchronous USB transfer, re-clocking with a fixed low jitter crystal clock, Galvanic isolation between USB and the analog circuits,... ." But curiously it is USB powered ... I think that the Audio Research DAC8 also had galvanic isolated USB.

But I fully agree with you that galvanic isolation does not give 100% isolation - I have posted before explaining why. And my point was just that photons are not also magic bullets - such think does not exist. All connection solutions have compromises, we can not say in absolute that there is one that is better than the other. It depends mostly on the implementation. But surely that every designer will tell that his system is the one that sounds better!

 

[Audiocrack]

This weekend I placed my Trinity dac on a Halcyonics micro 40 unit. Experiences so far are more or less similar as when I placed my Dcs Scarlatti 4 box player on another Halcyonics device many moons ago: lower noise floor, (perceived?) better dynamics probably due to lowering the noise floor, better bass, more depth in the soundstage and the feeling that you can look more easily into it (that is you can differentiate more clearly the separate instruments, including the 'dying' tones of instruments that are not being played anymore) and a more organic sound.