Trinnov ST2

edorr

WBF Founding Member
May 10, 2010
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Even if you were following it with an A/D/A conversion?

Empathical YES on both counts. In an A/D/A conversion the quality of what comes out is (perfectly?) correlated with what goes in. If I prefer DSD source direct playback without A/D/A conversion downstream, I would still prefer it with A/D/A conversion.
 

Nyal Mellor

Industry Expert
Jul 14, 2010
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It is encrypted for a number of HD formats but, if you output only at 44.1 or 48, it is unencrypted.

When I did analog into the Meridian G68 (I was calibrating a system at the time) the output was still in a non SPDIF format, even if it wasn't unencrypted. My DAC picked up the sample rate as 88.2 but that was as far as it went....
 

Kal Rubinson

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When I did analog into the Meridian G68 (I was calibrating a system at the time) the output was still in a non SPDIF format, even if it wasn't unencrypted. My DAC picked up the sample rate as 88.2 but that was as far as it went....

That is because it was upsampling. I am told by someone I trust that, if you set it to not upsample, you can get S/PDIF out. Unfortunately, it is also fixed level.
 

Kal Rubinson

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In an A/D/A conversion the quality of what comes out is (perfectly?) correlated with what goes in.
In an A/D/A conversion the quality of what comes out is limited by the weakest element and sums the distortions of each conversion.
 

Devlon

New Member
Feb 27, 2012
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Sherwood R-972/Trinnov

Well put. I recently participated in the setup and demonstration of yet another semi-pro EQ system in which we relied greatly on a VNC link with the company tech. I was asked if I was planning to review it. Frankly, I cannot say. For the vast majority of users, all these (with the exception of ARC/Audyssey) are beyond the resources, financial and personal, that they are willing to invest. Automatic and in-built functions, like ARC/Audyssey, may not be as powerful but they are not intimidating to most. This creates a gap between those two classes of products and users.

Of course, folks here are not representative of the typical high-end user but I wonder if it should not be encumbent on Trinnov, Dirac, DEQX, etc. to develop more friendly (i.e., with more hand-holding) front-ends if they want to get more market penetration. Trinnov almost did that with the Sherwood R-972 but it was a bit too dumbed down.

How was it "dumbed down"?
 

Roger Dressler

Industry Expert
Aug 4, 2011
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How was it "dumbed down"?
IMHO, the main issue is no user control over the target curve. It's a deal killer for me. Dirac Live has target curve editing (much like Audyssey Pro and Trinnov's own systems), and according to Carl Huff, Dirac is sprucing up the U/I, so the RS-20i and Carl's own eminent standalone EQs ought to be more usable by mere mortals. But we have to wait and see.
 

Kal Rubinson

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IMHO, the main issue is no user control over the target curve. It's a deal killer for me.
Right. The supplied target was clearly anemic in the bass and Sherwood provided me with additional targets but installation and swapping were kinda cludgy and not tweakable.
 

Devlon

New Member
Feb 27, 2012
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Right. The supplied target was clearly anemic in the bass and Sherwood provided me with additional targets but installation and swapping were kinda cludgy and not tweakable.

The target curve that was "anemic in the bass" are you referring to EQ? Volume? Both, ect.? On these additional targets, did you try them? If so, what was the difference?
 

edorr

WBF Founding Member
May 10, 2010
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Right. The supplied target was clearly anemic in the bass and Sherwood provided me with additional targets but installation and swapping were kinda cludgy and not tweakable.

I agree that manually creating target curves over VNC links with an expert on the other end of the line is not a very scaleable model commercially. However, a menu of various target curves that you can swap in an out in near real time would achieve 95% of what you can achieve with manually created curves. All you need is the on board processing power to do this. The Sherwood probably did not have this, but a full blown Trinnov ST2 does. A target curve menu would also allow you to pick different curves for different styles of music or say listening volumes. All you need is lots of onboard CPU cycles.
 
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Roger Dressler

Industry Expert
Aug 4, 2011
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Oregon
The target curve that was "anemic in the bass" are you referring to EQ? Volume? Both, etc.? On these additional targets, did you try them? If so, what was the difference?
They offered curves with different amounts of bass. None of which worked for my sensibilities. My target in the bass looks more like Harman's Synthesis or Holman's -30 dB curve from his "Loudness Compensation: Use and Abuse." Figure 3 as attached.



The black line above is the Synthesis, the red line is me fooling around.
 

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Kal Rubinson

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Roger Dressler

Industry Expert
Aug 4, 2011
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Any concern with your red curve overdriving the subs?
It not only overdrove the subs at higher levels, but exposed low frequency junk on movies and music recordings that seemed unintended at best, so I toned it down. The Harman curve is much more practical.

I visited RUR's system over the weekend and subjected him to that curve, using the 1/3d octave EQs in the ST-2. Naturally I liked it, but the jury is still out from Ken's perspective. It's something one has to live with for a while after running "flat".
 

Roger Dressler

Industry Expert
Aug 4, 2011
129
2
93
Oregon
"Subjected" sounds unduly harsh, Roger! Personally, I thought that Morgan Page number was pretty damned awe inspiring. :D
Sometimes it's fun riding back there in the rumble seats! :D C'mon, let that Seaton stretch its legs.

[For other readers -- Ken has a sofa located behind the MLP. There is additional bass excitation provided free of charge.]
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
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That's weird. I see it, and apparently DonH sees it. Can you see it here?

No. And probably because I was dismissed from AVS Forum two years ago (no access to any attachments).
No big deal, life ain't always fair all the way ...

* That is the problem with attachments; they are restricted (for viewing) to only 'good' people. :b

Thank you for trying Roger.
 

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