Tripoint Troy Elite - Installed
- Thread starter SuperDave
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I promised a follow-up in my first report of Troy Elite NG because I was in the middle of a speaker changing process. At a time I was selling my Avalon Time and succeeded then my friend loaned me a pair of Reference 3A Episode for a few months and finally new AlsyVox Botticelli came and this was a reason I had to rearrange the system. After I got Botticellis I deliberately disconnected Troy Elite NG from the system and listened that way for a few months to know them better “as they are” without any help from Tripoint.
Then, when I thought everything was well settled and burned-in, I put Elite NG into the system again. Even though new speakers sounded excellent without the Tripoint, the story from the first part of my report repeated and effects were even more pronounced. Perhaps because of superior resolution and greater extension of Botticellis. As good as system sounded without the Tripoint, it jumped to another level almost immediately after all connections were done. It took only 24 hours and my friends who were eagerly waiting my invitation and have heard AlsyVoxes only at hi-fi shows were floored.
The story could end at this point but then I remembered Daniele Cohen, the designer of Botticellis made a special modification for me. On my request he installed a dedicated grounding post at the bottom of the metal base that is connected to the huge metal mass of the frame (more than 100kg/speaker). I’m glad I asked him to do this at the early stage of manufacturing process because later that would be considerably harder. Speakers are so heavy and so hard to move around that I doubt I would be willing to send them back to the factory.
Troy Elite NG has 4 grounding posts covering at least 8-12 components. Since all parts of my system were already connected to it, I was wondering where to connect speakers. I had two more Tripoint Silver Signature cables on disposal which I couldn’t connect to posts occupied by the Emperor mkii and since only cj ART monos were on one post with the Signatures, I decided to connect speakers to it. Was quite concerned with four cables on one grounding post since my old Troy Signature was happy only with two or three. Well, seems the new generation of Tripoint grounding products have much more powerful filters since the effect was very surprising to say the least.
In one sentence, effects brought by the Elite NG on speakers were greater than with any other component and I expected only minor at most. The well-known story of Elite NG magic repeated itself once again and no need to go through all descriptions again. You get even greater soundstage, more authority in the bass, more body, more wood, strings, brass, skins...etc on acoustic instruments, slight spikes or distortions vanished almost completely. One detail that stayed in my memory is the reproduction of tambourine on The Royal Ballet LP (side 1, Tchaikovsky, The Nutcracker suite). I could swear I can hear more metal jingles on it after connecting speakers to the Elite NG. Before tambourine sounded very convincing but Elite NG infused it with a dose of authenticity and realism I haven’t heard before. With most of my system on Troy Elite NG (only Power supplies of Zanden phono and line stage and Magnum Dynalab tuner are not...yet ) there is also a much improved insight into musical tissue. It’s hard to explain this but it is like to be able to hear and observe more closely the composer’s musical idea, the conductor’s and artist’s idea of interpretation. I have experienced such phenomenon sometimes but never that intense.
All of this surprised me even more considering I had four components on one grounding post. I tried such configuration on Troy Signature in the past and found it a bit too much. Namely, improvements with additional (fourth) component on one filter was very small. So, I was quite skeptical before first audition and frankly didn’t expect much. Just wanted to explore the possibility at hand. Obviously filters in the Elite NG are considerably stronger and can easily handle 4 components and I’m sure even more.
Latter I did another experiment. Disconnected both power amps from the Elite NG and immediately sound became softer, much less defined, less dynamic and slower, and more tube like? In short, a proportionate part of improvements were lost. Reconnection restored the magic and all was well again. This was also a proof that one filter can easily take care of even the biggest and heaviest components such as speakers and power amps.
Although I can’t guarantee that connecting metal baskets of drivers or crossovers of conventional speakers to the Tripoint would have same effect as I described above but since Audicrack had similarly spectacular experience after grounding his Tidal Assolutas, I’m pretty convinced it would. The problem is, how to do that if you don’t have dedicated grounding posts. Wish more speaker manufacturers would follow Tidal’s decision to include them as a part of a design.
Then, when I thought everything was well settled and burned-in, I put Elite NG into the system again. Even though new speakers sounded excellent without the Tripoint, the story from the first part of my report repeated and effects were even more pronounced. Perhaps because of superior resolution and greater extension of Botticellis. As good as system sounded without the Tripoint, it jumped to another level almost immediately after all connections were done. It took only 24 hours and my friends who were eagerly waiting my invitation and have heard AlsyVoxes only at hi-fi shows were floored.
The story could end at this point but then I remembered Daniele Cohen, the designer of Botticellis made a special modification for me. On my request he installed a dedicated grounding post at the bottom of the metal base that is connected to the huge metal mass of the frame (more than 100kg/speaker). I’m glad I asked him to do this at the early stage of manufacturing process because later that would be considerably harder. Speakers are so heavy and so hard to move around that I doubt I would be willing to send them back to the factory.
Troy Elite NG has 4 grounding posts covering at least 8-12 components. Since all parts of my system were already connected to it, I was wondering where to connect speakers. I had two more Tripoint Silver Signature cables on disposal which I couldn’t connect to posts occupied by the Emperor mkii and since only cj ART monos were on one post with the Signatures, I decided to connect speakers to it. Was quite concerned with four cables on one grounding post since my old Troy Signature was happy only with two or three. Well, seems the new generation of Tripoint grounding products have much more powerful filters since the effect was very surprising to say the least.
In one sentence, effects brought by the Elite NG on speakers were greater than with any other component and I expected only minor at most. The well-known story of Elite NG magic repeated itself once again and no need to go through all descriptions again. You get even greater soundstage, more authority in the bass, more body, more wood, strings, brass, skins...etc on acoustic instruments, slight spikes or distortions vanished almost completely. One detail that stayed in my memory is the reproduction of tambourine on The Royal Ballet LP (side 1, Tchaikovsky, The Nutcracker suite). I could swear I can hear more metal jingles on it after connecting speakers to the Elite NG. Before tambourine sounded very convincing but Elite NG infused it with a dose of authenticity and realism I haven’t heard before. With most of my system on Troy Elite NG (only Power supplies of Zanden phono and line stage and Magnum Dynalab tuner are not...yet ) there is also a much improved insight into musical tissue. It’s hard to explain this but it is like to be able to hear and observe more closely the composer’s musical idea, the conductor’s and artist’s idea of interpretation. I have experienced such phenomenon sometimes but never that intense.
All of this surprised me even more considering I had four components on one grounding post. I tried such configuration on Troy Signature in the past and found it a bit too much. Namely, improvements with additional (fourth) component on one filter was very small. So, I was quite skeptical before first audition and frankly didn’t expect much. Just wanted to explore the possibility at hand. Obviously filters in the Elite NG are considerably stronger and can easily handle 4 components and I’m sure even more.
Latter I did another experiment. Disconnected both power amps from the Elite NG and immediately sound became softer, much less defined, less dynamic and slower, and more tube like? In short, a proportionate part of improvements were lost. Reconnection restored the magic and all was well again. This was also a proof that one filter can easily take care of even the biggest and heaviest components such as speakers and power amps.
Although I can’t guarantee that connecting metal baskets of drivers or crossovers of conventional speakers to the Tripoint would have same effect as I described above but since Audicrack had similarly spectacular experience after grounding his Tidal Assolutas, I’m pretty convinced it would. The problem is, how to do that if you don’t have dedicated grounding posts. Wish more speaker manufacturers would follow Tidal’s decision to include them as a part of a design.
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great comments on the Elite NG, thanks.
my 'standard' Tripoint Elite is on my sources. however; my Tripoint Troy Sig is on my amps, and also i have the Troy Sig grounding the passive towers of my MM7's. i use a screw on the speaker terminal/Neutric connector panel to attach the ground cable and got a nice little musicality boost from that. i can only imagine what the Elite NG might do beyond the Troy Signature in that spot.
would every system get the same benefit grounding passive speakers? hard to say.
Haha you mean another Empress master Tang??What you need is the Empress into your Qianlong.
Tang
Your system so lovely with it, why you want to part way?
Because Emperor Qianlong needs an Empress.
Kidding aside, I personally think Tripoint is best with digital. My analog rig has sufficient dynamic, contrast and organic'ness.
Tang
That would make 2nd Empress a Concubine! J/K.Because Emperor Qianlong needs an Empress.
Kidding aside, I personally think Tripoint is best with digital. My analog rig has sufficient dynamic, contrast and organic'ness.
Tang
I would love to secretly sneek in and pop audiophile power cables to your preamp/monos and see what you prefer in a blind test. Of course not one of those hyper power cable like Siltech/Goebel/Nordost but a more musical type like Skogrand/Dalby/Argento/Taralabs.
Tang, I think a certain King needs a new Consort?Because Emperor Qianlong needs an Empress.
Kidding aside, I personally think Tripoint is best with digital. My analog rig has sufficient dynamic, contrast and organic'ness.
Tang
me neither.
i'm doing 'chassis' ground to my dart mono's. i've posted pictures a few times before. it's not a ground post but a particular screw suggested to me by my amp designer. then as i mention above my passive speaker grounding is to a screw on the speaker terminal/neutric connector panel. i got no ground loop at all, just a little boost to the bass texture and vividness.
on my Troy Sig the amp grounding is to each side post, and the speaker grounding is to that same side post. these ground cables are the standard Tripoint ones. then the middle post of the Troy Sig is connected to another screw on that same speaker terminal/neutric connector for each speaker. so two speaker sides to the same post. these ground cables are Entrec ground cables. it was suggested to me (i recall by Miguel) that if running double ground cables from the speakers to use different types of cables. it's been a few years since i did this. it's possible i did it first and then Miguel explained why he thought it worked.
this was simply a matter of having extra ground cables sitting there and looking for an opportunity to advance things. 'what if?'
and it worked.
i think every amplifier has it's own particular approach to methods of isolation and circuit design; likely every situation is different. hard to know where to point the finger. could be any little thing creating the ground loop.
btw; i'm also running an Entreq Posiedon + 3 Silver Minimus boxes all connected to all four of the amp chassis of each of my MM7 bass towers. big boost in bass authority, texture, spaciality and overall bass sexyness. these are not connected at all to my amps or Tripoint Troy Sig.
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Marcus,
Congrats on the new speakers. You have more will power than I do but I appreciate you being able to hold off on the NG to see what the new speakers are capable of without the Tripoint in the mix. I'm not surprised, and happy that it raised the bar across the board. Interesting comments on grounding speakers, something I plan on looking at in the near future. My kids are growing and hopefully that will allow me to move my system into a more dedicated environment in a newer house hopefully sooner than later. I'm happy you're enjoying the sound and wish you all the best in the future. My next system, I plan to incorporate more analog as space allows and will talk with Miguel and others here to see what the future holds as I'm all digital now and have very little experience with tables and such. But there is lots of long term experience here on WBF to help me get it all sorted out as I move forward. Happy Listening!
Dave
Congrats on the new speakers. You have more will power than I do but I appreciate you being able to hold off on the NG to see what the new speakers are capable of without the Tripoint in the mix. I'm not surprised, and happy that it raised the bar across the board. Interesting comments on grounding speakers, something I plan on looking at in the near future. My kids are growing and hopefully that will allow me to move my system into a more dedicated environment in a newer house hopefully sooner than later. I'm happy you're enjoying the sound and wish you all the best in the future. My next system, I plan to incorporate more analog as space allows and will talk with Miguel and others here to see what the future holds as I'm all digital now and have very little experience with tables and such. But there is lots of long term experience here on WBF to help me get it all sorted out as I move forward. Happy Listening!
Dave
Just getting into grounding and thinking about one of the Tripoint models.
Is the Tripoint for chassis grounding only or can you ground something like the Chord Dave through the XLR or BNC input (e.g the circuit board of a digital component like a DAC or server would be grounded then)
I am using a StromTank which has a grounding post so I know that will work, but didn't known if I could use the XLR input on the Chord Dave or figure out a way to ground the chassis of the DAVE. Also wasn't sure if I could "circuit board" ground one component using XLRE and chassis ground another off of the same Tripoint unit (using a different grounding post on the Tripoint of course)
I also have a custom Linear Power Supply that I plan on chassis grounding since there are no open inputs.
Appreciate any assistance.
Is the Tripoint for chassis grounding only or can you ground something like the Chord Dave through the XLR or BNC input (e.g the circuit board of a digital component like a DAC or server would be grounded then)
I am using a StromTank which has a grounding post so I know that will work, but didn't known if I could use the XLR input on the Chord Dave or figure out a way to ground the chassis of the DAVE. Also wasn't sure if I could "circuit board" ground one component using XLRE and chassis ground another off of the same Tripoint unit (using a different grounding post on the Tripoint of course)
I also have a custom Linear Power Supply that I plan on chassis grounding since there are no open inputs.
Appreciate any assistance.
Hi...personally, i have actually grounded the signal on my Tripoint Troy Signature. The one thing miguel said is not to to mix different grounding cables on the same post on the back. I also have separated grounding signal from chassis. But otherwise, this has worked extremely well for me. Hope that helps.
Onlychild,
I would call Miguel. Let him know what you want to connect and he will you find the best solution. Like Lloyd said above, mixing the cables can be detrimental to the sound. How many components are you connecting? Each box has a different number of connections, Troy(3), Elite(4), and NG(4). Keep us posted.
Dave
I would call Miguel. Let him know what you want to connect and he will you find the best solution. Like Lloyd said above, mixing the cables can be detrimental to the sound. How many components are you connecting? Each box has a different number of connections, Troy(3), Elite(4), and NG(4). Keep us posted.
Dave
LL21/Superdave, thanks for the quick responses.
That is exactly what I am trying to do, ground the signal and chassis with the same unit. Note taken to keep the cabling the same, but use different posts on the Troy for signal vs chassis.
I have a very basic headphone setup only, no speakers or amps.
Stromtank S1000 has two High Fidelity Cables Pro power cords plugged into it. One powers the LPS of an Innuos Statement, another a custom LPS that powers a Chord DAVE and an Mscaler. The Mscaler and DAVE are connected by a pair of HFC Pro BNC cables. I have a few headphones I use direct out of DAVE.
I've made extra effort to keep the system as simple as possible and to keep the noise floor as low as possible. Last two things left are vibration and grounding. I feel like the Troy will be a perfect fit in my system
This is what I'm planning to do, figure I throw it up here first and then call Miguel. I've called him twice before but I really need to figure out some basics and see what I can get with Troy Sig (3 binding posts). My plan based on priority
Signal Ground :
1. Chord DAVE using XLR
2. Server portion of Innuos Statement with (Ethernet?), only open port.
3. Chord Mscaler using BNC
Chassis Ground:
1. StromTank (has a ground post)
2. DAVE
3. LPS of Dave/MScaler
4. LPS of Innuos Statment
5. MScaller
Can I put the two LPS's on the same post, #1?
Ground the DAVE and StromTank on Post #2.
Signal Ground all three on Post #3
I am certain two Troys will be much better or even an Elite, and that is an upgrade I look forward to, but trying to see if its possible right now with a Troy Signature.
Thanks.
That is exactly what I am trying to do, ground the signal and chassis with the same unit. Note taken to keep the cabling the same, but use different posts on the Troy for signal vs chassis.
I have a very basic headphone setup only, no speakers or amps.
Stromtank S1000 has two High Fidelity Cables Pro power cords plugged into it. One powers the LPS of an Innuos Statement, another a custom LPS that powers a Chord DAVE and an Mscaler. The Mscaler and DAVE are connected by a pair of HFC Pro BNC cables. I have a few headphones I use direct out of DAVE.
I've made extra effort to keep the system as simple as possible and to keep the noise floor as low as possible. Last two things left are vibration and grounding. I feel like the Troy will be a perfect fit in my system
This is what I'm planning to do, figure I throw it up here first and then call Miguel. I've called him twice before but I really need to figure out some basics and see what I can get with Troy Sig (3 binding posts). My plan based on priority
Signal Ground :
1. Chord DAVE using XLR
2. Server portion of Innuos Statement with (Ethernet?), only open port.
3. Chord Mscaler using BNC
Chassis Ground:
1. StromTank (has a ground post)
2. DAVE
3. LPS of Dave/MScaler
4. LPS of Innuos Statment
5. MScaller
Can I put the two LPS's on the same post, #1?
Ground the DAVE and StromTank on Post #2.
Signal Ground all three on Post #3
I am certain two Troys will be much better or even an Elite, and that is an upgrade I look forward to, but trying to see if its possible right now with a Troy Signature.
Thanks.
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