We can not exclude this hypothesis. Most sound quality enhancements are caused by careful addition of some expertly controlled "coloration" than can enhance some sound aspects and mask others. Surely this goes against the usual perception of grounding, but many devices calling themselves "grounding" devices work this way.
Tripoint troy signature grounding device
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We can not exclude this hypothesis. Most sound quality enhancements are caused by careful addition of some expertly controlled "coloration" than can enhance some sound aspects and mask others. Surely this goes against the usual perception of grounding, but many devices calling themselves "grounding" devices work this way.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Now I find that very interesting. Difficult for me to wrap my mind around the fact that a grounding cable can cause coloration. Is it this which is adding to the bigger pop with larger grounding cables
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Roger
IMO you have shown great wisdom in your pursuit of proper grounding. Personally I am an advocate for Star grounding as it makes sense to me. Is that what you are doing
But of course it is not an interconnect . It's just a way of saying cables matter or to be rather more case specific ... Master cables matter , at least to you . So maybe the analogy has more relevance now . I cannot for the life of me see where I suggested a ground cable adds color ???
I do not have a technical bone in my body , but subjectively it plain simple works . EMI/RFI generated by components , cables is endless .Its about the better cable being able to drain away the grunge faster . I have triple tagged my DAC and every further ground causes the same meritorious result . The lowering of noise floor , increase in resolution and seemingly limitless headroom . All manifesting in doing away with the remains of mechanical reproduction to a more free flowing , effortless delivery . This not with girl and a guitar type fare , but the more demanding full blown Mahler scores and such orchestral war horses . You can tell when a tutti holds its separation and texture , without congealing into mush . Must admit have not yet been able to replicate the same on massed choral peaks . Have been informed though , that the hall itself loads at a Verdi Requeim performance , so it may be unrealistic to think one can sustain those peaks and dynamic differentiation in a home enviornment .
We can conceptualize , be of intellect and theorize all we want . There has been volumes discussed ,on both the Entreq and Tripoint threads on WBF and we are no nearer to closure . The proofs in the pudding , tasty if you ever give it a go .
Cheers.
Steve you and I agree on many things and yes...classic star grounding....thanks.
ok, now back to Tripoint product performance progress.
8 days ago, prior to all this focus on Tripoint marketing issues (yawn, sigh) and how simple grounding rivals Tripoint/Entreq....star or otherwise (it does not), I was posting about how I had switched the Elite and Troy Signature back to their original positions with the Elite on the sources, and the Troy Sig on the dart mono blocks. you can read my thinking about that here.
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...ounding-device&p=471553&viewfull=1#post471553
a question remaining was to determine whether it was better to use the Troy Sig to ground my bass tower amps, or whether I should use the Entreq Poseidon & Atlantic Minimus I had been using for the last year to very good effect. for the last 9 days I had been using the Troy Sig for the bass tower amps, this afternoon I switched that back over to the Entreq boxes, and so far it is a little better that way. which now frees up those -2- 3 meter Signature Silver Tripoint ground cables. looking around at what is left to try, I notice these 7 foot tall passive main speaker towers just sitting there 'nude'.
hummmmm???
there is the plate (on the middle section of the back of the main towers) where the Neutric connectors go from the speaker terminals to the upper and lower woofer sections of the main towers, and also the umbilical to the bass towers. this plate has 8 screws; I loosened the middle bottom one on each main tower, and connected these orphan ground cables, tighten them up. go sit down to listen.
right away it's better. been listening for the last hour or so and it's just overall a nice little degree of more flowing and vivid. a slight restriction and veil lifted. more out of the way of the music. just a bit but an important bit.
2-as time progresses this little bit is a bigger little bit.
and now, every item in the signal path (except the RTR decks & King Cello) is grounded to either the Elite or Troy Sig except the bass tower amps which are connected to the Entreq Poseidon/Atlantic Minimus.
so why would grounding a passive speaker matter? i don't care why, only that one needs to keep pushing and trying things.
3-and now, 45 more minutes later it continues to dig a little deeper.
4-and now another 45 minutes later insert 'sh*t eating' grin!!!
but....... :-(..........got work tomorrow so got to get some sleep......
5-sleep is over-rated; this seems to have broke the code. a whole new level of absence of veils. i need some perspective. hopefully i'll feel the same in a few days.
8 days ago, prior to all this focus on Tripoint marketing issues (yawn, sigh) and how simple grounding rivals Tripoint/Entreq....star or otherwise (it does not), I was posting about how I had switched the Elite and Troy Signature back to their original positions with the Elite on the sources, and the Troy Sig on the dart mono blocks. you can read my thinking about that here.
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...ounding-device&p=471553&viewfull=1#post471553
a question remaining was to determine whether it was better to use the Troy Sig to ground my bass tower amps, or whether I should use the Entreq Poseidon & Atlantic Minimus I had been using for the last year to very good effect. for the last 9 days I had been using the Troy Sig for the bass tower amps, this afternoon I switched that back over to the Entreq boxes, and so far it is a little better that way. which now frees up those -2- 3 meter Signature Silver Tripoint ground cables. looking around at what is left to try, I notice these 7 foot tall passive main speaker towers just sitting there 'nude'.
hummmmm???
there is the plate (on the middle section of the back of the main towers) where the Neutric connectors go from the speaker terminals to the upper and lower woofer sections of the main towers, and also the umbilical to the bass towers. this plate has 8 screws; I loosened the middle bottom one on each main tower, and connected these orphan ground cables, tighten them up. go sit down to listen.
right away it's better. been listening for the last hour or so and it's just overall a nice little degree of more flowing and vivid. a slight restriction and veil lifted. more out of the way of the music. just a bit but an important bit.
2-as time progresses this little bit is a bigger little bit.
and now, every item in the signal path (except the RTR decks & King Cello) is grounded to either the Elite or Troy Sig except the bass tower amps which are connected to the Entreq Poseidon/Atlantic Minimus.
so why would grounding a passive speaker matter? i don't care why, only that one needs to keep pushing and trying things.
3-and now, 45 more minutes later it continues to dig a little deeper.
4-and now another 45 minutes later insert 'sh*t eating' grin!!!
but....... :-(..........got work tomorrow so got to get some sleep......
5-sleep is over-rated; this seems to have broke the code. a whole new level of absence of veils. i need some perspective. hopefully i'll feel the same in a few days.
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Mike..Are you sure you werent in state of sleep deprivation and started hearing things...hahaha
Now I have to try connecting one to my passive bass horn units.
Kind regards,
Tang
I try to be polite in debates, but it is not possible to debate grounding, a technical subject, with someone who does not understand the concept of impedance and tries to mix everything in the same pot. Your concept of grounding and star grounding are completely different from those of Entreq, Tripoint or Shelti devices.
Marc, the Tripoint Empress is a 2 box affair directed at grounding the negative speaker terminals, which i'm doing to considerable positive effect with the Entreq Poseidon (2 outside modules) and (2) Atlantic Minimus. the Troy Sig is doing chassis grounding and not those negative speaker terminals.
considering the difference in cost between the Empress and my Entreq boxes in that area, if i was to take the next step, it would be to add another Elite and move the Troy Sig to the Studers. and even before that step would likely be adding a couple of Thor SE Master Reference ground cables to replace the standard Signature Silver ground cables between the dart mono's and the Troy Sig.....which is the next logical thing to do if/when i can justify throwing more money at grounding.
if you meant to say 'Emperor' and not 'Empress'; then i would say that currently the Elite is a net gain over the Emperor, but my understanding is that the Emperor can be modified with 'Elite' status and be even above the Elite then (which evidently is happening).
there will be no more Emperor's built. so i don't need to concern myself with that temptation.
in any case, as much as you enjoy spending more of my money (and i know you do it with the purest of intentions).......i have other fish to fry with my tt direction before i come back to spendy tweaking. this latest move last night was simply re-tasking assets on hand already.
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Mike..Are you sure you werent in state of sleep deprivation and started hearing things...hahaha
Now I have to try connecting one to my passive bass horn units.
Kind regards,
Tang
Dear Tang,
well....this morning after some sleep it's even a little better, a slight degree more refined sounding and slightly greater ease.
after thinking more about grounding passive speakers, it makes sense in the same way that amplifier chassis grounding makes such a difference......and it's due to the effect of any sort of calming of the circuits; you hear it so easily as it's at the business end of things......the passive crossover in the MM7 main towers has considerable circuitry and so a better ground has to help.....how could it not?
i will be anxious to hear how your passive bass horn units react.
best regards,
Mike
Well Mike, my GF says I'm spending her money on audio over her dead body, so I guess it has to be you LOL.
Mike,
Can you tell us how you would connect each Tripoint Empress in your system and in classical systems with passive speakers?
Hi Mike,
I am at home now. My system is actually in my working office. I will skip some meeting and try it
.I have an Empress connect to the negative terminals of the bi-wire speaker posts. These posts are in the same steel panel where 1000watts amp for the bass horns are internally attached inside the main speaker. I did try to connect a Troy to one of the screw on this panel. Unfortunately, I got a hum not so loud coming out the right bass horn. No hum on the left bass horn. How is the sound?With this hum that annoyed me, I disconnected the right grounding wire to rid the hum and kept the left grounding wire connected... the sound is about step 2 of what you said. It never occurred to me to connect the Troy to my separate bass horns... until you did with your bass towers.
Btw, I think you are wise to use the Poseidon grounding the two negative speaker terminals.
Kind regards,
Tang
exactly how i'm connecting the Entreq Poseidon.
i have an Entreq ground cable attached to each negative speaker terminal on my dart mono blocks. i have to use a spacer on the positive terminal so the Cardas post stays even and snug for both positive and negative sides (the speaker cable spades to the inside of the terminal).
that Atlantic Eartha ground cable is then attached (with a dual lead end) to both an outside box on the Entreq Poseidon and to the Atlantic Minimus 'booster' box.
the Poseidon or Atlantic Minimus do not connect to anything, they are thier own little 'earth's'. (the Tripoint Empress does not connect to the A/C ground either)
works great.
Sorry, I am not understanding. The Empress has two terminals - where do you connect each of them in the system?
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