Tube Research Labs Platinum Golden Triode Reference 800 Mono Amplifiers

[Mike Lavigne]

These are the two concerns I have about these amplifiers. Their stability and how to handle the heat. So I hope to turn our discussion in that direction. Does anyone have any suggestion for actual appliances I can use to handle that heat? Brian has given me a suggested theoretical solution below. What kind of products would do what he describes. A requirement is that it has to be dead quiet.

you have a 'classic' HVAC challenge, just like I had with my room. only instead of the TRL 800 Mono's I wanted to be able to have 25-30 listeners in my room occasionally, which I've done 6-7 times, and still keep it comfortable and very quiet. 25-30 people, in a 'closed in tightly' 29' x 21' x 11' room, over 2-3 hours, would get unbearably hot when added to my system heat.

my HVAC design starts with a electronic heat pump with the heat exchanger sitting outside on a concrete pad on the opposite side of my barn from my room with 3 walls and 40 feet between it and my room. then my air box/furnace is upstairs in my attic above my hallway outside my room, mounted on a rubber pad for decoupling. then the air output exits from the air box and makes -3- 90 degree turns before splitting into 2 and outputting in the rear 1/3rd of the ceiling of my room. the ducting is in the false ceiling on my room. then the air returns (I have 2 for maximum capacity to move air) are in the front bottom corners of my room. and it also has -3- 90 degree turns before it returns to the air box. the -3- 90 degree turns are to insure that zero noise gets transferred from the air box fan.

the air is then moved noiselessly and quickly from the rear ceiling through the front bottom corners quickly and efficiently. if you took this same approach the heat from the TRL 800's would always be pulled away from the listener.

the only noise is a very slight 'click' from the sensor unit on the rear wall when the unit switches on, only audible during very quiet passages......which happens almost never unless there are 25-30 people in the room.

I can actually 'tune' the system with a couple of additional air vents in my rec/pool/TV room upstairs for optimal air pressure and lowest noise. excessive air 'rush' can happen if this is not done. the idea is to maintain negative air pressure to keep the air moving out of the room thru the returns while staying at the right level for lowest noise. the returns must be large enough to do this.

and I can keep it at 68 degrees, with full capacity and a 90 degree day. been there, done that.

as I recall, the total install cost of this system was $10k-$13k......very cost effective in the context of your system, like a set of speaker cables or a phono cartridge. likely more costly in a retrofit, my install was new construction inside a shell of the original barn. another issue could be whether you have the amperage capacity in your power grid, or you could possibly use a natural gas air exchanger. my HVAC unit is on the dirty power grid in my room/barn.

Secondly I hope to hear from other TRL owners and their long term relationships with their amplifiers. What are their experience in terms of stability. What have they learned to do as control routines. How often do the change bias (a lot of tubes for me). How do they otherwise care for their amplifiers. This is my first tube amplifier. The minimum of equipment I should own is a soldering iron and a multimeter. Anything else?

talk to Gallant Diva if you have not already.

 

[Brian Walsh]

These are the two concerns I have about these amplifiers. Their stability and how to handle the heat. So I hope to turn our discussion in that direction. Does anyone have any suggestion for actual appliances I can use to handle that heat? Brian has given me a suggested theoretical solution below. What kind of products would do what he describes. A requirement is that it has to be dead quiet.

Secondly I hope to hear from other TRL owners and their long term relationships with their amplifiers. What are their experience in terms of stability. What have they learned to do as control routines. How often do the change bias (a lot of tubes for me). How do they otherwise care for their amplifiers. This is my first tube amplifier. The minimum of equipment I should own is a soldering iron and a multimeter. Anything else?

A tube tester, without a doubt. I hope you don't need a soldering iron.

 

[Roysen]

I just wanted to keep you guys updated. Paul was not able to keep his own deadline and now my patience had run out so I demanded my money back which he gave me. We do have a dispute though because I have paid for a set of Duelund CAST copper capacitors to be used in the TRL amps and they were sent to Paul. He now claims that those capacitors are fake and will not give me the money back for those. He actually have had them for over a year now and he never mentioned any problems with them until now that I demanded that he paid me back the money I paid for them or he returned them to me. He doesn't seem to want to do either. I don't like that.

 

[thedudeabides]

Six years plus and no banana.

I applaud your patience.

You're a better man than I.

Hope you find an amp you like.

If the caps are fake, why wouldn't this used car salesman return them to you?

 

[Brian Walsh]

I just wanted to keep you guys updated. Paul was not able to keep his own deadline and now my patience had run out so I demanded my money back which he gave me. We do have a dispute though because I have paid for a set of Duelund CAST copper capacitors to be used in the TRL amps and they were sent to Paul. He now claims that those capacitors are fake and will not give me the money back for those. He actually have had them for over a year now and he never mentioned any problems with them until now that I demanded that he paid me back the money I paid for them or he returned them to me. He doesn't seem to want to do either. I don't like that.

At the very least he needs to send you the caps.

Count your blessings. If you had actually taken delivery of the amps it's likely you would have had problems, potentially a lot. I know someone who had two pairs of GT-400s and was finally able to get rid of them. I didn't dare ask what he sold them for because he didn't want to talk about any of it.

 

[Jeffy]

I just wanted to keep you guys updated. Paul was not able to keep his own deadline and now my patience had run out so I demanded my money back which he gave me. We do have a dispute though because I have paid for a set of Duelund CAST copper capacitors to be used in the TRL amps and they were sent to Paul. He now claims that those capacitors are fake and will not give me the money back for those. He actually have had them for over a year now and he never mentioned any problems with them until now that I demanded that he paid me back the money I paid for them or he returned them to me. He doesn't seem to want to do either. I don't like that.

This guy reminds me of Yankee Audio, I bet they are related.

 

[Elberoth]

That is incredible ! You really showed much more patience than most people would have. At least you were able to reclaim some of your money. I agree with Brian - at the very least, he needs to send you the caps.

 

[Peter Breuninger]

http://www.ayonaudio.com/products/amplifier/kt88-kt150-series/orthos-xs.html

If you are looking for a super tube amp with lots of power and that is actually available and will perform to specs and not burst in to flames. I had version 1 with 1/3 less power driving the MBL 101E MKII to concert levels. It was so good I sold my Jadis JA 500 (knowing that there was a super tube amp that surpassed it).

Too bad about your Tube Research Labs experience. I would bet that the Ayon would have slayed it as well.

 

[FrantzM]

Maybe we should hear from both parties ...

 

[Roysen]

Maybe we should hear from both parties ...

Both sides? I am not critisizing Paul or Tube Research Labs for anything but the actual dispute over the capacitors. He doesn't contradict that I have paid for them and sent them to him. He doesn't contradict the value I have paid for them because it was he who negotiated the price with Duelund Coherence Audio. The only dispute is in relation to the fact that I want him to either send them to me or to reimburse the money I paid for them. How can he decline that based on one simple argument that he think we both were set up with fake capacitors? I have still paid what I did and I still own the capacitors so they should be sent to me if he doesn't want to keep them. It really doesn't make any difference if they are fake or not. How can there be several sides to this?

 

[Brian Walsh]

Both sides? I am not critisizing Paul or Tube Research Labs for anything but the actual dispute over the capacitors. He doesn't contradict that I have paid for them and sent them to him. He doesn't contradict the value I have paid for them because it was he who negotiated the price with Duelund Coherence Audio. The only dispute is in relation to the fact that I want him to either send them to me or to reimburse the money I paid for them. How can he decline that based on one simple argument that he think we both were set up with fake capacitors? I have still paid what I did and I still own the capacitors so they should be sent to me if he doesn't want to keep them. It really doesn't make any difference if they are fake or not. How can there be several sides to this?

Right on. You gave him every chance.

There are other choices of suitable tube amplifiers, but be careful.

 

[asiufy]

Wait... You said he negotiated the price directly with Duelund, so that's where they came from... And now he tells you they were fake? So Duelund sold you fake caps? Really?


alexandre

 

[Roysen]

Wait... You said he negotiated the price directly with Duelund, so that's where they came from... And now he tells you they were fake? So Duelund sold you fake caps? Really?


alexandre

That is his claim. Yes.

 

[Brian Walsh]

That is his claim. Yes.

Then what is his excuse for refusing to send you the caps? I'd tell him he has ten days to get them in your hands, or else. If he doesn't, contact every editor of every US publication to let them know. I'd probably start with Positive Feedback. I would also urge you to post on Audiogon's amps/preamps forum, because some people there have purchased Weitzel's Transistor Research Labs solid state components, and potential customers deserve to know.

 

[zztop7]

??? How did he determine that the capacitors were fake ??? - That I would like to know.

I have had direct experience with Cast Duelunds; an excellent cap, but so are the correct Mundorfs.
Satisfaction is not always monetary. If you start posting on many forums the facts - no $$$ & no Duelunds - you should get a result.
??? You do have all Receipts & Correspondence ???
Please keep us posted.
Thank you,
zz.

 

[joecasey]

That is his claim. Yes.

What's Paul's explanation not issuing a refund or ship you the fake caps?

It appears majority of Paul's customers are satisfied so these incidences are odd. There are many Audiogon members bought GT200 amps, Samson SS amps and mostly Dude pre recently. They are reliable and excellent SQ.

There was a strange instance with Agon member Glory years ago. He changed his system page so history is gone. He ordered low power Samson SS mono for his high efficiency speakers. Months dragged on, finally a ship date and week before ship, Paul said he doesn't like the results and won't ship them. Paul refuse to refund and agree to build Glory OTL amps. He never got them and not sure how they settled.

 

[Geardaddy]

Then what is his excuse for refusing to send you the caps? I'd tell him he has ten days to get them in your hands, or else. If he doesn't, contact every editor of every US publication to let them know. I'd probably start with Positive Feedback. I would also urge you to post on Audiogon's amps/preamps forum, because some people there have purchased Weitzel's Transistor Research Labs solid state components, and potential customers deserve to know.

Contacting the mags will have little impact. Paul will do the right thing. He always does. I have owned Samsons, a Dude, and a ST100 tube amp and all were stellar, and he was nothing but straightforward with me. Yes, he can be slow....

Brian, you seem like a bitter ex-lover. I understand that you and Brian Weitzel have tangled in the past, and that there is no lost love here.

Too bad Roysen. I was looking forward to your report on the amps. I foresaw you listening half-naked as waves of heat washed over you and then running outside and rolling in the snow...a scandinavian tradition with an audio twist....

 

[Brian Walsh]

Contacting the mags will have little impact. Paul will do the right thing. He always does.

He's had the caps for over a year and decided to say they're fake and won't send them to the guy who ordered and paid for them. And he had for over four years to deliver the amplifiers.

Brian, you seem like a bitter ex-lover. I understand that you and Brian Weitzel have tangled in the past, and that there is no lost love here.

That is not true. I have no experience with him or his products and have no dog in this hunt, only feedback from others, which is not positive. My point is no one deserves to be shortchanged, which clearly is the case here.

Actions speak louder than words. It's as simple as that.

 

[Geardaddy]

This public chatter has no merit. You sell tube gear (Atmasphere) and thus do indeed have a subconscious dog in the hunt. Roysen and Paul should handle this matter like adults.

 

[Brian Walsh]

This public chatter has no merit. You sell tube gear (Atmasphere) and thus do indeed have a subconscious dog in the hunt. Roysen and Paul should handle this matter like adults.

So far that hasn't happened. To compare Atma-Sphere and TRL in the same breath is to scrape the bottom of the barrel saying I am biased. Ralph Karsten's company is real, he demonstrates at shows such as RMAF, he answers the phone and posts on forums such as this to answer questions and provide information, and his equipment is impeccably reliable and great sounding. That's a lot better than I can say about TRL, and the guy doesn't even have the integrity to send the customer the capacitors he paid for over a year ago, under some hokey excuse that they're fake. What a line of BS, and the only conclusion I can draw from all of this is that you have a dog in this hunt, while it is obvious to anyone which party has been taken advantage of.

So yeah, if you count my being someone who doesn't stand for unprofessional behavior and using other people's money for years, then I guess you can say i've got a dog in this hunt. I hold my manufacturers and distributors to a very high standard, understanding they are human and have their personal lives. They expect the same of me, and they get it! When I see a situation like Roysen's, I get upset and try to help.