Tube Research Labs Platinum Golden Triode Reference 800 Mono Amplifiers

[Roysen]

I am not sure what to do now. I am thankful that DCA will replace any damaged capacitors. TRL is now also willing to send me all the capacitors in the current state of condition. So it seems I will get all the capacitors back in like new condition.

But is this a fair situation to put me in? What shall I do with all these capacitors I bought because I believed they were the best and I wanted to use them in my coming tube amplifiers which I also believed to be the best.

Now it turns out there are doubts about the quality of both in addition to doubts about an actual delivery of the amps and the actual existance of DCA PIO with paper in oil impregnation in the voltage rating the TRL amps require and which was ordered here. Somehow I would think the only faire thing would be if I was left with the money I paid for these capacitors and some other party (TRL or DCA) with the capacitors. But I guess that will never happen.

 

[Duelund Coherent Audio]

I am not sure what to do now. I am thankful that DCA will replace any damaged capacitors. TRL is now also willing to send me all the capacitors in the current state of condition. So it seems I will get all the capacitors back in like new condition.

But is this a fair situation to put me in? What shall I do with all these capacitors I bought because I believed they were the best and I wanted to use them in my coming tube amplifiers which I also believed to be the best.

Now it turns out there are doubts about the quality of both in addition to doubts about an actual delivery of the amps. Somehow I would think the only faire thing would be if I was left with the money I paid for these capacitors and some other party (TRL or DCA) with the capacitors. But I guess that will never happen.

Just to be sure, we understand each other. We'll replace them, if they are faulty due to a production error or otherwise that we are to blame for. I have no reason to believe they are - but as said. We will check them, if they are shipped to us.

 

[Roysen]

I understand, Fredrik.
That leaves a question though. If I send the capacitors to you for inspection I have also sent you the only evidence I have of any faults. Since I have never seen the capacitors myself (or even if I had) that would seem like a risk to take.

To Paul,
You never asked for my permission to cut any of capacitors open and you have yet to prove anything wrong with them. The fact that you never informed me of these issues back when they actually happened makes all of this seem strange when you try to justify not reimbursing me for their value now that you yourself prefer to pay me back what I have paid for the amps than to deliver them on schedule.

So your suggestion of sending me the capacitors back in their current state will not work for me. You need to either send them in like new condition or pay me back what I paid for them.

 

[Grannyring]

This is interesting. Nobody is suggesting the caps don't sound good and are not in the top 2 or 3 in terms of sound quality. They are simply not what the web page suggests in terms of what is inside. They sound very good. I would assume Paul purchased many Duelund caps for use beyond the amp in question so I suppose he can cut which ones he wants to cut.

I also wonder if the caps were already soldered and mounted in the amps you were purchasing. I assume they were in some state of completeness? 50% done etc... You decide you don't want the amps, but the builder has already started them and perhaps mounted some of these caps. That means some will not be unmolested correct?

You may receive some caps with epoxy on them, shorter leads etc....

Just some things here to consider. I hope this can be worked out to your contentment. You have been very patient for sure. Seems like the builder also has concerns with the hours, parts etc... Already invested in the amps that now have no owner.

 

[Duelund Coherent Audio]

This is interesting. Nobody is suggesting the caps don't sound good and are not in the top 2 or 3 in terms of sound quality. They are simply not what the web page suggests in terms of what is inside. They sound very good. I would assume Paul purchased many Duelund caps for use beyond the amp in question so I suppose he can cut which ones he wants to cut.

I also wonder if the caps were already soldered and mounted in the amps you were purchasing. I assume they were in some state of completeness? 50% done etc... You decide you don't want the amps, but the builder has already started them and perhaps mounted some of these caps. That means some will not be unmolested correct?

You may receive some caps with epoxy on them, shorter leads etc....

Just some things here to consider. I hope this can be worked out to your contentment. You have been very patient for sure. Seems like the builder also has concerns with the hours, parts etc... Already invested in the amps that now have no owner.

Ok, I'll bite, since we both obviously joined for this thread: Are you saying they are different than stated on our web site? Where?

 

[Grannyring]

Your page defines a CAST cap as PIO. Unless you have changed it recently. That's all.

 

[Grannyring]

Here is the quote from your site.

"The Duelund CAST Capacitor is our no holds barred flagship capacitor.

The construction builds on the foundation of our Virtual Stack Foil design but does so with the addition of a proprietary WPIO dielectricum which necessitates several days of impregnation under high pressure.

This creates a form with incredible damping properties giving a mechanical stability hitherto unheard of.

On top of this casting process, a ring of hard pressed paper strengthens the damping properties of the design helping music flow effortlessly.

The Duelund CAST capacitor is available for speaker use and as the CAST 630v for DC-applications for size considerations this cap is cylindrical."

No paper to be found in several caps that were inspected. That is all some are saying, including myself, based on direct inspection evidence. I like your product, but something has changed with these high voltage caps sold at reduced prices by Parts Connextion and others and directly by Duelund.

I have one at my home and I have taken out a magnifying glass and tweasers to inspect. Lots of a clear, plastic film of some sort. Looks like thin plastic kitchen wrap.

Hope this helps clarify.

 

[Duelund Coherent Audio]

Your page defines a CAST cap as PIO. Unless you have changed it recently. That's all.

WPIO to be exact, and they do contain paper that is impregnated in oil and wax around an extra insulator. So that's why.

They are not in an oil bath - if that is what you mean.

To quote Lampizator, if you don't believe me:

From his facebook - 26. maj kl. 09:47 (Maj being May)
Lampizator By-Fikus Sensational findings : following huge interest that this post stirred off-line, I examined the Duelund more closely. The truth is shocking: there is BOTH paper and foil. It is a hybrid. Never heard of it before. The paper is so thin, that when impregnated with oil and pressed against the foil - it forms a seamless dielectric sandwich.

Best regards,

Frederik

 

[Grannyring]

Thank you for the update. I will look closer this evening and report back. It is good of you to help us better understand. I will make a formal apology here once I confirm as the truth and integrity of comment is very important to me and many.

Please help us understand all the plastic as no mention of it is made on your site? The plastic is quite abundant and evident while the paper is all but invisible.

Thanks

 

[audio.bill]

As an unbiased observer of this situation I would offer the following thoughts:

• Frederik from Duelund Coherent Audio is being extremely accommodating in the support of his product, by offering to inspect and provide replacements if they are found to be defective or not up to their standards regardless of whether the capacitors have been cut open.
• If Paul from TRL actually purchased the capacitors on Roy's behalf as described and he is the one making the claims against them as well as cutting some open, then I agree with Roy that Paul should resolve the situation directly with DCA and return new or like new capacitors to Roy which is what he paid for.

In any case I sincerely hope that this issue can be resolved quickly.

 

[Duelund Coherent Audio]

Dear Erving,

I think we should leave the reverse engineering of our products out of Roy's thread. You are welcome to mail me at all times at info@duelundaudio.com.

I've PM'ed Roy about how to go about this if he wants the caps verified.

Best regards,

Frederik

 

[joecasey]

Royen, just curious how many Duelund caps did you paid for? For those amps, I assume it's a large quantity so no spare change.

 

[JackD201]

To Roy, Frederik and TRL, it is my humble recommendation that the chain of custody not be disturbed so as not to create more fodder for the blame game. I suggest that TRL send the caps back to DCA and not to Roy and have DCA make the evaluations they said they would make.

Now with my moderator cap on, I urge the 3 concerned parties to deal with the issues of liability and compensations in the manner that they should have been dealt with in the first place. Privately.