Tube Research Labs Platinum Golden Triode Reference 800 Mono Amplifiers

[FrantzM]

Hi

I don't have a bone in this fight. I have no interest in Tubes amps from any manufacturer and would never invest in an amp such as the Tubes Labs what with all these thermo-ionic devices .. This said. I would think it would be wise and reasonable to hear both parties before making judgement or taking a stand. So far we've heard one party. It would be interesting to know the rational for the other party alleged behavior.
So let's chill, let's hear from Paul (?) and let's draw our own personal conclusion. in the absence of such I would have preferred that both parties take it off WBF and deal with it privately.

Just my ).02 Euros

 

[Roysen]

Just to be very, very clear here. I have not presented my side of the story yet either. So WBF is not privy to any side. I have just presented an explenation why the amps are not going ahead as planned because I have involved the members at WBF in my excitement and wait for the amplifiers to be delivered. I thought it only fair to also inform them about the current situation. I have however not given my side to the situation. There is much more to this case than has been presented. And to be even clearer this matter will not be solved on these pages but between Paul and me in private.

 

[FrantzM]

Roysen


That is your side . It could well be that there are much more to be divulged/tell /or share but it so far what we've read are your version of the events. That is not to say that these aren't the truth, simply that, so far we've heard nothing from Paul.
I do also believe that 4 years to wait for the delivery of any product is straddling on sainthood.

 

[Roysen]

Roysen


That is your side . It could well be that there are much more to be divulged/tell /or share but it so far what we've read are your version of the events. That is not to say that these aren't the truth, simply that, so far we've heard nothing from Paul.
I do also believe that 4 years to wait for the delivery of any product is straddling on sainthood.

No, my side has yet to be presented. What you do have been presented might very well be events seen from my side but you have not been presented my side to this case.

 

[Steve williams]

No, my side has yet to be presented. What you do have been presented might very well be events seen from my side but you have not been presented my side to this case.

My best advice is that if indeed you post your side of the story (which quite frankly I thought you had) is to avoid any mud slinging or accusations where Paul is not here to tell his side of things. Perhaps anyone here who knows Paul might send him an email and let him know what's going on in this thread and ask him if he would like to join and offer his side of the story. Until such time Roy perhaps you can defer your side of the story for fear it become one sided

What I fail to understand is if the caps were bought from Duelund and sent sent to Paul why would they send fake caps

 

[joecasey]

Roysen


That is your side . It could well be that there are much more to be divulged/tell /or share but it so far what we've read are your version of the events. That is not to say that these aren't the truth, simply that, so far we've heard nothing from Paul.
I do also believe that 4 years to wait for the delivery of any product is straddling on sainthood.

With all due respect, I would use a different adjective than sainthood waiting 4 years for an amp. I wonder if anything was ever built but just using the funds.

It would be interesting to hear TRL side of the story.

 

[microstrip]

(...)
Just my ).02 Euros

Frantz,

Norway is not in the European Union - they have the Norwegian krone (NOK). Even Denmark, the land of Duelund, is in EU, but outside the Euro zone.

 

[Roysen]

Precisely because I don't want to do any mudslinging, I have not posted what I would consider my side of the story. I will not do it either. Please pay attention that I actually haven't done any mudslinging.

 

[Roysen]

Paul knows very well what has been written because he has read it. I would slso think that since he has read it, he also knows how to defend himself. I have not broughg forward any critisism of what Paul has done (have I). I have just presented what has happened. I must ask if I still need to delete that? Many others have also posted critisism of manufacturers not around to defend themselves without having to delete that critisism. Among other cases I remember someone critisizing Spectral for not having representation in UK anymore.

 

[Roysen]

My best advice is that if indeed you post your side of the story (which quite frankly I thought you had) is to avoid any mud slinging or accusations where Paul is not here to tell his side of things. Perhaps anyone here who knows Paul might send him an email and let him know what's going on in this thread and ask him if he would like to join and offer his side of the story. Until such time Roy perhaps you can defer your side of the story for fear it become one sided

What I fail to understand is if the caps were bought from Duelund and sent sent to Paul why would they send fake caps

Paul claims not just him but a lot of customers were sent caps not according to specs from Duelund and in a now deleted thread on Audiogon Duelund admitted to this. Paul also writes that to prove that they are fake he had to cut them open. He has also had to damage some of them to take them out of the amplifiers and finally some have been damaged because of malfunction while installed in the amps. Because of this he can't return them and will not reimburse me for the money i paid for them.

In the end I would like to add that I write this to be sure the case is represented fairly and to show I don't want any mud slinging - not in this case nor did I ever want it in the Magico case where I also presented the facts as accuratly as this time (at least that is what I think).

Paul is of course welcome to present his side himself too and I will wait to present my side still without mud slinging until he has presented his side.

 

[Roysen]

I think the most interesting side to have a comment from in this case is Fredrik at Duelund. He has written to me that he has never heard of such case, never been involved in a case on Audiogon and never talked to Paul about this at all.

So now we have all sides presented. It probably is not quite as objective as could be hoped for because I have written everything, but I will gladly wait for Paul and Fredrik to join in before I take this any further now.

 

[FrantzM]

Frantz,

Norway is not in the European Union - they have the Norwegian krone (NOK). Even Denmark, the land of Duelund, is in EU, but outside the Euro zone.

Thanks for the correction... I always assumed that Duelund was in Germany too ...

You learn every day ...

As for the issue at stake here.
@Roysen

You may not have presented your complete account or side of the story. We do know from you however that there is some contentious issues. the capacitor seems to be one of them or att hevery least the one you have presented to us. The account is your side, that is as you see it or describe it to us. We have not heard the other party account of that particular, weird event;
We recently learn, again from you , of a letter written by some person from Duelund, again as of this posting , nothing from the other party. The reasonable conclusion is that we know your version of the events, not the other party's.

Let's drop the semantics for a while. Your account of your dealing with Paul of Tube Labs is not what any reasonable person would call positive. They paint the other party in a not flattering light ... Paul would do well to answer to some of those IMHO. Failure would simply reinforce the negative perception created by your posts.

 

[Roysen]

I get it Frantz and I agree. I will stop here until we hear from the other parties.

 

[Steve williams]

Thanks for the correction... I always assumed that Duelund was in Germany too ...

You learn every day ...

As for the issue at stake here.
@Roysen

You may not have presented your complete account or side of the story. We do know from you however that there is some contentious issues. the capacitor seems to be one of them or att hevery least the one you have presented to us. The account is your side, that is as you see it or describe it to us. We have not heard the other party account of that particular, weird event;
We recently learn, again from you , of a letter written by some person from Duelund, again as of this posting , nothing from the other party. The reasonable conclusion is that we know your version of the events, not the other party's.

Let's drop the semantics for a while. Your account of your dealing with Paul of Tube Labs is not what any reasonable person would call positive. They paint the other party in a not flattering light ... Paul would do well to answer to some of those IMHO. Failure would simply reinforce the negative perception created by your posts.

I get it Frantz and I agree. I will stop here until we hear from the other parties.

Frantz sums it nicely as we know it and Roy is acting responsibly.

Not sure I agree that Paul need not reply because the poster felt it would reinforce his culpability

Finally if Duelund admits to selling caps that aren't up to spec do they not have some responsibility as well

 

[Grannyring]

The Duelund caps sold by Parts Connextion and the ones Paul has or had are not paper in oil. I had the same issue. They have no paper in them and instead have layers of plastic. Cut one in half and see for yourself. These are the very same ones .... CAST..... advertised on Duelund's home page as PIO.

They are not the same quality as the flat pancake style ones. The owner of Lampizator has concluded the very same thing after inspecting one. Just an FYI for the group.

It is interesting that Duelund has now come out with the "new" lower priced RS series made with plastic. A coincidence? Ha!

 

[joecasey]

The Duelund caps sold by Parts Connextion and the ones Paul has or had are not paper in oil. I had the same issue. They have no paper in them and instead have layers of plastic. Cut one in half and see for yourself. These are the very same ones .... CAST..... advertised on Duelund's home page as PIO.

They are not the same quality as the flat pancake style ones. The owner of Lampizator has concluded the very same thing after inspecting one. Just an FYI for the group.

It is interesting that Duelund has now come out with the "new" lower priced RS series made with plastic. A coincidence? Ha!

This is very interesting. Recently many owners have replaced Duelunds in their components with Jupiter so I'm now wondering if they all got the fake Duelunds.

 

[Roysen]

I have now received harrassing e-mails from Paul where his behaviour is borderline threatening. He doesn't seem interested in commenting here online but he certainly is following what is written.

His line of reasoning is that I am a liar because I have not written that he actually is willing to return the defective capacitors. Quite a few of them are damaged because he has cut them open to prove they are fake and some are damaged while he uninstalled them. Some are also damaged while malfunctioning in the amplifier. All this is according to Paul.

I have a question in regards to what people consider about this authenticity issue. Paul thinks he can just send me the damaged caps and be done with me. To me it seems irrelevant if the caps are fake or not in regards to what Paul owe me. These capacitors are worth the price I paid for them even if that price should have given me a different product in Pauls mind. To me it is only fair that Paul either send the capacitors to me in like new condition or pay me the price I paid for them. That price has been documented by him to me because he made the order with Fredrik at Duelund himself. If they are fake or not is not relevant in my mind. If Paul thinks he had to cut some capacitors open or if some were damaged while he tried to prove they were fake without asking me if I approve of those actions should not inflict on me. Neither should any malfunction in the capacitors while installed in the amplifier causing the capacitors to become damaged. Additional it should be noted that all of this was going on more than a year ago without Paul informing me about any of it after I had waited 5 years for him to finish the amplifiers. The amount he now is paying me back does not include any amount as compensation for the long wait for no result.

 

[Elberoth]

That price has been documented by him to me because he made the order with Fredrik at Duelund himself.

I think this is the key point here. Since he is the one who bought the capacitors, he sould be the one to resolve the issue with Duelund, not you. He cannot make you pay for the caps.

 

[Roysen]

I think this is the key point here. Since he is the one who bought the capacitors, he sould be the one to resolve the issue with Duelund, not you. He cannot make you pay for the caps.

I have already paid Duelund for the caps. The bill was sent to me and after I paid the caps were sent to Paul. Paul and Fredrik handled the comunication and Paul specified what was ordered. All I did was pay the bill.

 

[Duelund Coherent Audio]

Dear All,

I was mailed this thread by a friend, I'll offer a few comments.

1) There are no "fake" Duelunds - I was made aware of a thread on Audiogon, where someone had cut them open and claimed there was a problem with the impregnation ( I can now guess this was TRL - but I don't know). I asked for them to be returned, so we could inspect them. This never happened. According to our production records they are standard issue CAST630v with 3 layers of insulation and 2 rounds of impregnation. I'll of course gladly check this, if the caps are returned to us. Makes no difference if they are cut open or not.

2) As far as I know I have never been contacted by TRL about any issue. And certainly never admitted in some thread that the caps were counterfeit. The first I hear of this, is when Roysen mails me regarding the problem.

Lastly, I'll reiterate - send me the caps, and we'll check them. If there's any problem, anything missing or otherwise, We'll replace them - including the ones cut open.

Best regards,

Frederik Carøe
Duelund Coherent Audio