Turntable Recommendation ~ $10K

[Solypsa]

@theclipper
Not together for a real head to head, no. Just over time in various systems. I have heard 301 vs other tables with exact same arm/cart moved between them tho

 

[Bbock]

The P8 hums once the cart gets close enough to the spindle. Not loud enough to hear over the music, but still very annoying. Same thing with a Rega cart & the Lyra.

Too bad that happened ??

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

Arrg, I know! The way the hum on the P8 drives me nuts! Should not be an issue.

Yes, this was one of my problems as in my UK base I listen to most of my music via my headphone system (Hifiman EF1000 with Susvara) and with this particular set-up you hear everything coming from the TT set-up !

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

No hum whatsoever on my P10.

Not my experience with my headphone system i.e. the P10 hum from the motor was quite loud !

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

The P8 hums once the cart gets close enough to the spindle. Not loud enough to hear over the music, but still very annoying. Same thing with a Rega cart & the Lyra.

Yes, exactly my experience too when I had the P10 !

 

[DasguteOhr]

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[theclipper]

Wow, that looks imposing!

 

[Solypsa]

@theclipper That you want to move on/up from the Rega is clear ( and understandable imho ). Any comments on where you want your system to go, preferences and dreams? Might inform the the decision, and suggestions, as there are many great choices...

 

[theclipper]

@Solypsa

The trouble is I haven't been able to hear any better systems, as my friends don't really give a rip about sound quality. So I don't have a concrete idea of what I want to model my system after, or try to attain.

At the end of the day I just want to keep pushing towards everything sounding more real with better imaging. I feel like the Rega can sound kind of thin, with not quite fully fleshed out images at times.

 

[Bbock]

@Solypsa

The trouble is I haven't been able to hear any better systems, as my friends don't really give a rip about sound quality. So I don't have a concrete idea of what I want to model my system after, or try to attain.

At the end of the day I just want to keep pushing towards everything sounding more real with better imaging. I feel like the Rega can sound kind of thin, with not quite fully fleshed out images at times.

I’m not intending to substantiate my Rega purchase, (P10) however if it sounded thin and didn’t image well, I never would have purchased it. And I compared it at my dealer against the Acoustic Signature Montana and Typhoon. Harmonically fleshed out imaging is important to me.

May I suggest that you look at the Rega setup. For example, the mat are you using, the cartridge setup (VTA setup for example), the cartridge itself and the interaction with the Rega arm. What platform do you have. What about your SUT?

Just some of many things to think about.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

If it helps you 'theclipper', the major differences (which were highly noticeable) I found between the Rega P10 (with Apheta 3 cartridge) I used to have and my Kuzma XL DC with 4Point 11" arm and MSL Eminent Ex cartridge (with connecting both the P10 and XL DC to the Rega Aura Phonostage (when I had it) and to my Hifiman EF1000 Amp and Susvara headphones) was the following (in no particular order) with different types of music genres (i.e. classical, jazz blues, contemporary jazz, , Motown, R&B, Pop, soft rock & heavy rock);
Kuzma XL DC has;
- No TT motor noise at all
- Fantastic deep and textured bass (most probably due to the high mass of the XL DC)
- No sibilance to the treble
- Much deeper layers of music (most probably due to the high mass of the XL DC)
- Much blacker background (also most probably due to the high mass of the XL DC)
- Much wider and deeper sound stage (again most probably due to the high mass of the XL DC)
- More texture to the music (for all frequencies and all instruments and all vocals) i.e. sounds more real
- Instrument spacing much greater in the wider space
- Music can have great slam and impact (if played and recorded this way)
- I can hear differences with where the music has been recorded i.e. large studio, small studio, large concert hall, small concert hall etc.
- The music sound overall more solid sounding yet at the same time it flows more easily (difficult to describe until you hear it).
- I find the sound addictive and want to keep playing more records. I have listened to LP's for over 8 hours on a number of occasions (when I planned a day to allow the time to do this in one go)
- The XL DC sounds better than my Chord Blu CD Transporter (MK1 modified by Chord to now include the M Scaler) connected to my Chord DAVE DAC (with High Fidelity Wave STORM digital cables to give me 706kHz sampling rate)

Rega P10 has;
- Noisy TT motor noise
- Lacking deep and textured bass (most probably due to the P10's lightweight design)
- Constant hum (most probably due to the design of the earthing system)
- Clearer treble (although sounds on the verge of being digital which I don't like)
- Treble can be sibilant at times
- Can sound digital for a lot of records I played
- Couldn't listen to music for long periods of time i.e. max 1hour periods.
- My Chord Blu CD Transporter (MK1 modified by Chord to now include the M Scaler) connected to my Chord DAVE DAC (with High Fidelity Wave STORM digital cables to give me 706kHz sampling rate) sounds better than the P10 most of the time.

I have only heard the Kuzma Stabi R fitted with a Kuzma 4Point 14" and a Kuzma CAR50 cartridge connected to a approx. US$120k high end system and it sounded fantastic. So can't compare direct the Stabi R with the XL DC. However, reading through reviews etc. from people who have compared, I would guess (and it is a wild guess) the Stabi R gets you a good 75 to 80% of what the XL DC (both with same arm, cartridge, phonostage etc. can give you (with I guess the Kuzma Stabi M getting you 85 to 90% of what the XL DC can give you again with the same arm, cartridge, phonostage etc.)

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

I’m not intending to substantiate my Rega purchase, (P10) however if it sounded thin and didn’t image well, I never would have purchased it. And I compared it at my dealer against the Acoustic Signature Montana and Typhoon. Harmonically fleshed out imaging is important to me.

May I suggest that you look at the Rega setup. For example, the mat are you using, the cartridge setup (VTA setup for example), the cartridge itself and the interaction with the Rega arm. What platform do you have. What about your SUT?

Just some of many things to think about.

I changed the pathetic 'fluffy' felt P10 mat for a Herbie Audio Lab 'Way Excellent II Turntable Mat' on the P10 which did improve the bass and thinness of the music a bit.

 

[Bbock]

If it helps you 'theclipper', the major differences (which were highly noticeable) I found between the Rega P10 (with Apheta 3 cartridge) I used to have and my Kuzma XL DC with 4Point 11" arm and MSL Eminent Ex cartridge (with connecting both the P10 and XL DC to the Rega Aura Phonostage (when I had it) and to my Hifiman EF1000 Amp and Susvara headphones) was the following (in no particular order) with different types of music genres (i.e. classical, jazz blues, contemporary jazz, , Motown, R&B, Pop, soft rock & heavy rock);
Kuzma XL DC has;
- No TT motor noise at all
- Fantastic deep and textured bass (most probably due to the high mass of the XL DC)
- No sibilance to the treble
- Much deeper layers of music (most probably due to the high mass of the XL DC)
- Much blacker background (also most probably due to the high mass of the XL DC)
- Much wider and deeper sound stage (again most probably due to the high mass of the XL DC)
- More texture to the music (for all frequencies and all instruments and all vocals) i.e. sounds more real
- Instrument spacing much greater in the wider space
- Music can have great slam and impact (if played and recorded this way)
- I can hear differences with where the music has been recorded i.e. large studio, small studio, large concert hall, small concert hall etc.
- The music sound overall more solid sounding yet at the same time it flows more easily (difficult to describe until you hear it).
- I find the sound addictive and want to keep playing more records. I have listened to LP's for over 8 hours on a number of occasions (when I planned a day to allow the time to do this in one go)
- The XL DC sounds better than my Chord Blu CD Transporter (MK1 modified by Chord to now include the M Scaler) connected to my Chord DAVE DAC (with High Fidelity Wave STORM digital cables to give me 706kHz sampling rate)

Rega P10 has;
- Noisy TT motor noise
- Lacking deep and textured bass (most probably due to the P10's lightweight design)
- Constant hum (most probably due to the design of the earthing system)
- Clearer treble (although sounds on the verge of being digital which I don't like)
- Treble can be sibilant at times
- Can sound digital for a lot of records I played
- Couldn't listen to music for long periods of time i.e. max 1hour periods.
- My Chord Blu CD Transporter (MK1 modified by Chord to now include the M Scaler) connected to my Chord DAVE DAC (with High Fidelity Wave STORM digital cables to give me 706kHz sampling rate) sounds better than the P10 most of the time.

I have only heard the Kuzma Stabi R fitted with a Kuzma 4Point 14" and a Kuzma CAR50 cartridge connected to an approx. US$120k high end system and it sounded fantastic. So can't compare direct the Stabi R with the XL DC. However, reading through reviews etc. from people who have compared, I would guess (and it is a wild guess) the Stabi R gets you a good 75 to 80% of what the XL DC (both with same arm, cartridge, phonostage etc. can give you (with I guess the Kuzma Stabi M getting you 85 to 90% of what the XL DC can give you again with the same arm, cartridge, phonostage etc.)

Sorry, can’t agree with your assessment. Let’s leave it at that.

 

[DeadWax]

You could buy a used Kuzma Stabi S (ideally one of the later models with the thicker plinth and separate upgraded power supply) with a used Kuzma 4Point 9" for now (look on HifiShark and do a search for 'Kuzma') and cartridge of choice (that would match nicely with your phono stage).

This is exactly what I decided to do a few years ago. Adding the 4Point9 to the Stabi S was a major upgrade over the original Stogi arm - with impact beyond what I was expecting. With this said, I'd love to upgrade the table to the Stabi R at some point but it's become less of a priority.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

This is exactly what I decided to do a few years ago. Adding the 4Point9 to the Stabi S was a major upgrade over the original Stogi arm - with impact beyond what I was expecting. With this said, I'd love to upgrade the table to the Stabi R at some point but it's become less of a priority.

The Stabi S is a great TT and performs way above it's price point to other TT set-ups (as does the Stabi R) when both are fitted with 4Point arms !

 

[theclipper]

The Stabi S seems like it's probably good value for the money. For whatever reason I'm just not a big fan of the look of the table.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

The Stabi S seems like it's probably good value for the money. For whatever reason I'm just not a big fan of the look of the table.

I believe you can now get the Stabi S in any RAL colour you like (if you buy one new and pay the extra for the RAL colour) which may persuade your current thinking of the look.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

I'm sure there is an official Kuzma Dealer out there somewhere in our big wide world that would sell you an ex-demo Stabi R with a 4Point arm for a great price ! You could start by putting some 'wanted' advertisements in some well know global hifi forums including WBF ? And then start searching on the internet and contacting official Kuzma Dealers (all listed on the Kuzma website) via email or just calling them, starting with Dealers that are closest to you first.

 

[theclipper]

@Bonesy Jonesy

I think I will do just that! Thanks for the nudge.

 

[Solypsa]

I suggest trying to hear a few of the decks under discussion, either at dealers or private listening parties. Don't underestimate personal preference with this amazing chance to get into better analog!