Turntable Recommendation ~ $10K

[Tangram]

The Stabi R, even with the 4Point 9” is more than $10K new and I have yet to se a used Stabi R for sale. But in the used market $10K can buy a lot of turntable. Hi-end turntables are babied by their owners so don’t be put off by tables that are 10+ years old.

As an example, I am the second owner of a TW Acustic Raven One with a Graham II tonearm. The original owner purchased it new in 2008 and I bought it in 2018 for US$6,300. I added a Kiseki Purple Heart for $3,500 so there’s you $10K table. I recently upgraded the cartridge but I’m as happy with this table as the day I bought it.

 

[The Knife]

I acquired the Kuzma Reference II with the Kuzma 11”4 point arm and a Gold Note Mach mk2 from a dealer 2nd hand. Paid 7000 USD for the full package. If you like the solid Kuzma sound IMHO I think such a set up for the money invested would challange anything out there. I also have the DS Audio pick up, and prefer what mentioned PU does for the sound. The TT with the arm weighs around 40kg motor excluded, and by that it is just a tad lighter than my Gryphon Essence Class A amp, hence requires a solid furniture or rack.

 

[Tangram]

I acquired the Kuzma Reference II with the Kuzma 11”4 point arm and a Gold Note Mach mk2 from a dealer 2nd hand. Paid 7000 USD for the full package. If you like the solid Kuzma sound IMHO I think such a set up for the money invested would challange anything out there. I also have the DS Audio pick up, and prefer what mentioned PU does for the sound. The TT with the arm weighs around 40kg motor excluded, and by that it is just a tad lighter than my Gryphon Essence Class A amp, hence requires a solid furniture or rack.

Gorgeous! I guess in Canada we are price gouged. You’d almost pay that much used for the arm here, granted, in Canadian dollars. Congratulations.

 

[Solypsa]

@theclipper I'll keep my ear open for any opportunities in the Seattle area for Garrard or Kuzma listening at private party. Stay in touch

 

[theclipper]

@Solypsa

Thank you so much, would so greatly appreciate that!

 

[Rekmeyata]

You can spend that money if you want, it's your money, but you won't hear a difference from your old one.

 

[theclipper]

@Rekmeyata

You don't think there would be much of a difference from a Rega P8?

 

[Solypsa]

All arguments about table tech aside two aspects stand out, imho:

1) Lyra carts show better on arms with higher eff mass than the Rega. Ask the designer...

2) I cant imagine mounting any modern profile stylus equipped cart to a table without vta adjustment. Granted could send to Wally Tools and get some custom shims made....

 

[theclipper]

@Solypsa

Unfortunately I've come to this same conclusion with the Rega arm, it's certainly not allowing me to get the optimal performance from the Lyra cart. Wish I would have known it would have been an issue before the dealer sold me on the cart. It still sounds a lot better than the Rega Apheta 3 it replaced at least.

 

[Rekmeyata]

@Rekmeyata

You don't think there would be much of a difference from a Rega P8?

None, the only difference you will hear is from the carts you use, and you already have good one, but different carts do sound better depending on the type of music you're playing, a lot of people have 5 or more carts because what cart will sound great with classical won't sound good with classic rock, and so on. So if you want to spend money, look into different carts if you haven't already, otherwise, the turntable won't make any difference in the sound from what you currently have; the only thing that new turntable will do is look different.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

None, the only difference you will hear is from the carts you use, and you already have good one, but different carts do sound better depending on the type of music you're playing, a lot of people have 5 or more carts because what cart will sound great with classical won't sound good with classic rock, and so on. So if you want to spend money, look into different carts if you haven't already, otherwise, the turntable won't make any difference in the sound from what you currently have; the only thing that new turntable will do is look different.

From my experience and in-depth direct A to B comparison between a Rega P10 and Kuzma XL DC, what you say is not true !

 

[mtemur]

None, the only difference you will hear is from the carts you use, and you already have good one, but different carts do sound better depending on the type of music you're playing, a lot of people have 5 or more carts because what cart will sound great with classical won't sound good with classic rock, and so on. So if you want to spend money, look into different carts if you haven't already, otherwise, the turntable won't make any difference in the sound from what you currently have; the only thing that new turntable will do is look different.

With all due respect I don’t share your opinion.

For example a friend was using a Techdas AF3P, Acoustical Systems Axiom tonearm and Kondo IO-M cartridge. I set them up when he bought them new and I was listening them occasionally for the last two years. He recently bought a new Techdas AF1P. Tonearm, cartridge and the rest of the system unchanged, the only difference is the turntable, from AF3P to AF1P. There has been a big improvement in sound. If changing turntable doesn’t make a difference where this difference came from?

P.S. I can add more examples both cheap or expensive and vintage or new. Vintage Duals, Thorenses, new SMEs, Da Vincies etc. Please don’t come up something like “psychological effect” or “setting up differences” cause I very well know how to set up a turntable/tonearm/cartridge.

 

[djsina2]

If budget is limited it’s better to spend more $ on turntable/arm than a wear item like cartridge. You can get a ton of performance out of a $2k cartridge if on the right table/arm.

 

[Fishfood]

With all due respect I don’t share your opinion.

For example a friend was using a Techdas AF3P, Acoustical Systems Axiom tonearm and Kondo IO-M cartridge. I set them up when he bought them new and I was listening them occasionally for the last two years. He recently bought a new Techdas AF1P. Tonearm, cartridge and the rest of the system unchanged, the only difference is the turntable, from AF3P to AF1P. There has been a big improvement in sound. If changing turntable doesn’t make a difference where this difference came from?

P.S. I can add more examples both cheap or expensive and vintage or new. Vintage Duals, Thorenses, new SMEs, Da Vincies etc. Please don’t come up something like “psychological effect” or “setting up differences” cause I very well know how to set up a turntable/tonearm/cartridge.

I have to agree with this. I looked hard for many years to find a cartridge that works for me with all genres of music and once I did, I switched from belt drive to a better belt drive, then to an idler, and each at each change there was an improvement with the same arm/cartridge combination.

 

[KeithR]

Also check out AMG, TWAcoustic, Brinkmann etc. lots in that price range.

 

[Rekmeyata]

For those that didn't agree with me, that's fine, but you're also the type who probably subscribes to $2,000 a foot speaker cable when it has been proven that a person with educated ears could not tell the difference when a $1 a foot oxygen free copper cable was used. It's psychobabble. But I won't bother responding to this anymore, if spending a bucket full of money will make you feel better then do it.

 

[Fishfood]

For those that didn't agree with me, that's fine, but you're also the type who probably subscribes to $2,000 a foot speaker cable when it has been proven that a person with educated ears could not tell the difference when a $1 a foot oxygen free copper cable was used. It's psychobabble. But I won't bother responding to this anymore, if spending a bucket full of money will make you feel better then do it.

Really? You are comparing someone who claims to hear the difference between two things that just sit there like cables vs someone (everyone but you, I think) who can hear the difference between two very different mechanical objects. Honestly, you could have a hearing issue. My 11 year old daughter heard the difference between the different tables I've had, never prodded.

 

[KeithR]

For those that didn't agree with me, that's fine, but you're also the type who probably subscribes to $2,000 a foot speaker cable when it has been proven that a person with educated ears could not tell the difference when a $1 a foot oxygen free copper cable was used. It's psychobabble. But I won't bother responding to this anymore, if spending a bucket full of money will make you feel better then do it.

Not sure why you’re trolling this thread with the holier than thou attitude

 

[tinkerphile]

For those that didn't agree with me, that's fine, but you're also the type who probably subscribes to $2,000 a foot speaker cable when it has been proven that a person with educated ears could not tell the difference when a $1 a foot oxygen free copper cable was used. It's psychobabble. But I won't bother responding to this anymore, if spending a bucket full of money will make you feel better then do it.

I get you're trying to make a point and want to participate in the discussion - fair enough. But dudeman, I hope you can realize your rhetorical style is just about entirely self-defeating. There is a fine line between antagonism and just having a diplomatic quotient of close to zero. Neither is good.

 

[jjhf1234]

Recently picked up a used AMG Viella for a bit under your budget and it’s quite amazing. Quiet as I’ve heard vinyl, great speed stability, and the Turbo version of the arm provides quick, repeatable set up.

edit: should have added I’ve owned a rebuilt Garrard 301 and while it produced a very wonderful distinct sound I would not even consider going back after hearing the AMG. Don‘t recall the site but a reviewer compared one of the higher end Garrard builds to the AMG and his comments reflect my experience.