if you say the RS is wonderful on mono why i need to compare it?
I got a disbeliever reading this thread who read too much mono theory on forums. A second opinion might break through the dense fog
V.Y.G.E.R indian signature & VYDA cables.
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I got a disbeliever reading this thread who read too much mono theory on forums. A second opinion might break through the dense fog
I was busy penning a reply when I recalled that I had saved an excellent summation from elsewhere that will save me the bother.
You can't view all mono LPs the same way. A "modern" mono LP pressed this year is a whole different animal than a mono LP pressed in 1954.
So I'll approach the question in the title this way - first from the two different ends of the spectrum to illustrate the easier cases, then fill in the middle which the question can be a little more difficult to answer cleanly due to many factors. (note I own well over 1000 mono LPs, from all eras, many mono / stereo carts, and my answer also comes from hours of trying many combos over the last few years, plus the hours I've spent researching).
1. What percentage of pre-1958 mono LPs justifies a mono cartridge? Answer: 100%. During this era, everything was mono, plus the groove was cut wider (the 1mil groove vs the modern 0.7mil groove, which appeared post-1958 with the onset of Stereo). You can dip your new microline into 1956 groove all day long, hit the mono switch, and music will come forth from your speakersbut you're not getting the best sound possible. End of story.
Note this class not only requires mono, but further benefits from mono with 1mil (25um) conical stylus, which are not as easy to obtain. I utilize the Ortofon CG DI series and Ortofon SPU Mono - both 1 mil (25um) stylus, with the DI series being a true mono, and the SPU Mono being strapped. Realize though these Ortofons are not ideal for most TT's due to their mass / compliance.
2. What percentage of "modern" mono LPs (say post 1970 for ease of illustration) justifies a mono cartridge? Answer: For those with a modest mono collection - 0%. Even for those with more than a modest collection. During this era, it's all a stereo lathe, and use your stereo cartridge (any profile stylus) and a mono switch (or ycables if its all you have) to achieve near everything you're after. Now, I've played modern mono numerous times with good mono carts too, but most of the time I'm trying to convince myself I'm squeezing more detail out with a mono cart........ but for most it'd be hard to justify a mono setup in this case.
OK, now the tougher era, not so cut and dry.
3. What percentage of mono LPs between 1958 and 1970 justifies a mono cartridge? Answer: Varies - depends on the LP. This one gets a little tricky for a number of reasons - and those with many early 60's mono / stereo pressing know what I'm talking about. I still go back and forth in some instances on what I try, but in others it's clear cut a mono cartridge is better. In some instances, with as much as I've learned on the topic, I'm just taking an educated guess. Here's why.
3.1 First consider, the 1958 cutover to stereo pressings was not an overnight event, and some smaller shops / labels took years to switch from mono to stereo lathes, some into the mid-60's. Then, even with the big labels, all plants did not switch overnight, there will still mono cut LPs coming out into the early 60's for even the big labels in some cases, at the same time producing stereo pressings. So you could be holding a 1962 mono pressing, still cut on a mono lathe, still 1mil groove. Or you could be holding a 1962 mono pressing, but cut on a stereo lathe with the 0.7mil groove. This is where a little knowledge of label and clues to what it is helps.... though it's never fail safe. If in doubt, don't try and play it with a 1mil stylus (which most don't have anyway).
3.2 Next, I still find that the early 60's mono pressings cut on stereo lathes still sound a little better with a mono cartridge than a stereo - all the way until the late 60's early 70's. These LPs were cut / produced at a time where conical cartridges were the mainstream choice, and many of them were tested with a conical cartridge. I've found even if you don't have a 0.7mil mono cartridge, a conical / spherical stereo cartridge with a 0.7m tip (like DL-103, many others) played, and utilizing a mono switch is better than more modern profiles and a mono switch.
Some of the cartridges I own / utilize for this era are things like a DL-102 (true mono conical, 0.7mil tip), DL-103 variants and a mono switch, AT33Mono, and even some elliptical profiles that are 0.7mil / 18um tip profile with good results. There are a number of mono carts on the market today, for instance the Ortofon 2m mono series, that I'd rather use a DL-103 and a mono switch for this era.
Anyway, as always, it depends on both what LP, and of course what you're willing to invest for sometimes small incremental improvements. I did it partly because I was intrigued by it, and enjoyed experimenting and learning hands on.
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to tell the absolute truth, i am very lack of experience and the numbers of MONO LPs to be occupied with that subject very much,
I am like the next guy, like my "boxes" and "cables", but spending time listening to music is the main area that i'm concentrating on.
I have some mono lps. I will give it a try, but not like my friends who invested in mono reproduction cartridges and extra arm, I'm ok with stereo for now
I am like the next guy, like my "boxes" and "cables", but spending time listening to music is the main area that i'm concentrating on.
I have some mono lps. I will give it a try, but not like my friends who invested in mono reproduction cartridges and extra arm, I'm ok with stereo for now
to tell the absolute truth, i am very lack of experience and the numbers of MONO LPs to be occupied with that subject very much,
I am like the next guy, like my "boxes" and "cables", but spending time listening to music is the main area that i'm concentrating on.
I have some mono lps. I will give it a try, but not like my friends who invested in mono reproduction cartridges and extra arm, I'm ok with stereo for now
Np and thanks for stating that. In fact I just mentioned on another thread that 99 percent of forummers do not have good mono LPs so the reports are dodgy anyway.
and I just realised there is a Vyger RS thread with mono videos
Thread 'Zero distortion: Cessaro - mono or stereo'
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/zero-distortion-cessaro-mono-or-stereo.35996/
And one more
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no but they weren’t mobile. I don’t know what was used I wasn’t there the videos are from 9 years ago. Think some sort of video camera.
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A novel way to demonstrate the playback quality of a particular recording / pressing to a potential customer
Sparrow playing a first press mono;
Thad Jones / Tommy Flanagan / Gigi Gryce **US Blue Note BLP 1546 Mono RVG LP** - YouTube
Thad Jones / Tommy Flanagan / Gigi Gryce **US Blue Note BLP 1546 Mono RVG LP** - YouTube
I had the pleasure of hearing this system in person the other day, very impressed and made very welcome!
B
@byrdparis …. Aviad you might care to amend your signature a tad Viz
TT- (V.Y.G.E.R INDIAN SIGNATURE + TITAN on order) KV9vta max * Sumile /SAEC 4700 * Kondo IO-X
VizTT- (V.Y.G.E.R INDIAN SIGNATURE + TITAN on order) KV9vta max * Sumile /SAEC 4700 * Kondo IO-X
Wondering if you had any more thoughts on the J. Sikora Max tone arm?
Sending you my best wishes,
Don
Done ?@byrdparis …. Aviad you might care to amend your signature a tad
TT- (V.Y.G.E.R INDIAN SIGNATURE + TITAN on order) KV9vta max * Sumile /SAEC 4700 * Kondo IO-X
Hello dear Don.
the MAX 9" is a very good arm! they outdone themselves.
i had two KV12"VTA and now the Max9" also... and its surely better! the meterials, the dynamics and precision of operation are greater in 200%!!
that important for a unipivot.
im using it with my AIDAS gold CR and its track and play music fabulously. highly recommended!
A.
Thank you so much for your kind and thoughtful reply! I’m glad that you have been enjoying the KV Max.
At some point, I would like to get the J Sikora Reference turntable and I think I will likely get the Max to go with it
Be safe, and best wishes to you!
Don
Hi VYGER Indian Signature MKIV Owners,
Can someone tell me the following;
1) Required footprint area for this TT, it's actual height (floor to top of the platter) and it's total weight (just the TT & Tonearm i.e. not including the separate standard (not Titan) Compressor Unit) ?
2) Any negatives for this TT (total set-up i.e. including the Tonearm, standard (not Titan) Compressor Unit that comes with the TT) ?
3) Anybody also owned the Kuzma XL DC with Kuzma 4Point 11" either before or after the owned the VYGER Indian Signature MKIV as a comparison between the two regarding ownership, use, maintaining etc. ?
Can someone tell me the following;
1) Required footprint area for this TT, it's actual height (floor to top of the platter) and it's total weight (just the TT & Tonearm i.e. not including the separate standard (not Titan) Compressor Unit) ?
2) Any negatives for this TT (total set-up i.e. including the Tonearm, standard (not Titan) Compressor Unit that comes with the TT) ?
3) Anybody also owned the Kuzma XL DC with Kuzma 4Point 11" either before or after the owned the VYGER Indian Signature MKIV as a comparison between the two regarding ownership, use, maintaining etc. ?
Hi,
i can try to help...
1 - the require space for the actual footprint including its own arm angles etc is about 70x70cm to be clear of interruptions (i gave it a little bit more)
the height is about 83cm from floor to platter and around 6-7 cm more to the top VTA adjustment knob..
the total weight is a bit tricky because the legs are "empty" and you can choose what to fill them with, for greater stability. Pino from VYGER can suggest to get some quartz send in a plastic bags and fill the gaps to get some more weight, i did something a "bit" heavier...
but lets say its around 100(++)kg excluding the TiTAN of course.
2 - Negatives... mmm, after a lot(!) of turntables, arms, cartridges, phono stages and all that analog holy in my 40years of playing vinyl, this is the BEST TT i ever owned. (i have the top of the line Titan also and a second arm mount) and i had a lot of top game "end of the road" Turntables.
i think from some experience and conversations with Pino- a lot of owners got stumbled with it because of lack of basic (and not so basic) knowledge of accurate and good set up and that what you will need to get if owning one. but i can assure you, when this thing is proper set up (not such a problem really) and taking care of (free of dust and Humidity) with a stable floor and delicate hands, it will not break a sweat and will preform 100% perfect every time! you will not believe how vinyl can sound through it.
like ALL linear arms table systems, it need some attention to set up perfectly or it will not perform! not like a pivot arms that will 99.999 of the times play the vinyl. but not always the music..
3 - unfortunately i didn't had the XL at my possession personally but the 4P 11" I had for 2-3 years operating on several turntables and against a lot of tone arms...(i don't have it anynore, basically because i found better arms and for some specific problem i had with some specific cartridge that "Kuzma" couldn't help me with or didn't had the time... WE. i still think its one hell of a good arm!) be that as it may, i know the XL very well from a good friend of mine who has also AF3P to its side, listening to 4 arms between them including the kuzma new air linear arm...
to make this story very short, i prefer mine (a lot) better
(being on the TechDas train too myself for a while BTW) hope that helps a bit.
A.
The Kuzma is nowhere compared to vyger. However, if you go vyger the Atlantis is as good as the Indian signature, and requires less footprint and sits on a table. Who knows, it might even be more musical, as a couple of people i know think. Indian looks way cooler though. Also, your records and set up have to reflect the potential of vyger
Ps: i do think stabi M is good from a footprint, cat proof, high value in the used market and reliability perspective
