van den Hul Colibri Grand Cru

[marty]

Lots of talk about dark, lean and light etc with some frustration (and even condemnation) of words being used as appropriate descriptors. Yet I do not see a single frequency response measurement of any system discussed. I suggest that showing the simplest frequency response to pink noise, is an extremely useful piece of data and a very good predictor of whether a system will be dark sounding or not. The harmonic structure of notes and how they are reproduced is surely important, but it seems rather meaningless to talk about that until you illustrate the overall frequency response of your system at the listening position. That, by far, is of the greatest fundamental determinant of how a system sounds.Talking about how Lamm or any other piece of gear reproduces harmonics is relatively meaningless if you have a 15dB null point at 150 Hz or a 12dB peak at 50 Hz (both are relatively common deviations even in good systems).

On the subject of harmonics, if you want to discuss their sonic relevance, it may be far more useful to talk about the harmonics of your power line. Have you ever looked at that? What is the THD of your powerline? Do you have mostly 3rd degree or 5th degree harmonics of your 60Hz (or 50Hz) AC sine wave? Ah, but I digress....However, measuring your AC line requires some sophisticated measuring tools whereas everyone has a iPhone and access to pink noise so measuring your system's frequency response is trivial.

 

[Maril555]

Lots of talk about dark, lean and light etc with some frustration (and even condemnation) of words being used as appropriate descriptors. Yet I do not see a single frequency response measurement of any system discussed. I suggest that showing the simplest frequency response to pink noise, is an extremely useful piece of data and a very good predictor of whether a system will be dark sounding or not. The harmonic structure of notes and how they are reproduced is surely important, but it seems rather meaningless to talk about that until you illustrate the overall frequency response of your system at the listening position. That, by far, is of the greatest fundamental determinant of how a system sounds.Talking about how Lamm or any other piece of gear reproduces harmonics is relatively meaningless if you have a 15dB null point at 150 Hz or a 12dB peak at 50 Hz (both are relatively common deviations even in good systems).

On the subject of harmonics, if you want to discuss their sonic relevance, it may be far more useful to talk about the harmonics of your power line. Have you ever looked at that? What is the THD of your powerline? Do you have mostly 3rd degree or 5th degree harmonics of your 60Hz (or 50Hz) AC sine wave? Ah, but I digress....However, measuring your AC line requires some sophisticated measuring tools whereas everyone has a iPhone and access to pink noise so measuring your system's frequency response is trivial.

Amen

 

[Al M.]

Dark and light, lean etc as used here are relative terms. There are no absolutes in audio. But you know that of course, Marty.

I am not sure if frequency response tells the whole story either. After having improved the power to my system it sounds less 'bright' to me; among others, this is because the highs seem better integrated, not because they seem less in intensity. Frankly, I doubt this subjective experience would show up in a frequency response curve.

 

[marty]

Dark and light, lean etc as used here are relative terms. There are no absolutes in audio. But you know that of course, Marty.

I am not sure if frequency response tells the whole story either. After having improved the power to my system it sounds less 'bright' to me; among others, this is because the highs seem better integrated, not because they seem less in intensity. Frankly, I doubt this subjective experience would show up in a frequency response curve.

Al, of course there are absolutes in audio. A decibel is "absolute". So is "frequency response", "distortion" and "watts". But if I understand your point, it is that other things beside frequency response can effect how we perceive sonics. That is certainly true. However this discussion is best held elsewhere so as not to further derail the thread.

 

[crosswind]

Dear Grand Cru owners, I am looking for advice on loading my G.C.

I am today using a Jensen SUT into my Allnic phono with my Grand Cru, however I am looking for a better solution and one that gives me more options and flexibility and better quality. So, I have talked to Lukasz at Lampizator about a SUT-A. What I really find interesting about the SUT-A is the possibility for customized loading (5 settings) and two inputs. I also use The Frog Gold in another arm and that one could then be used in the second input of the SUT-A. (It holds similar data as the G.C. and should work fine with the same settings)

Lukasz adviced med to find the optimal loading for the G.C. for the center loading value, being X, and then choose 1/4X, 1/2X, 2X and 4X for the settings below and above center.

My question is then if any of you experienced Grand Cru owners could give me some advice on what value X should be? I know this is often a personal opininon and subject to many variables, but maybe there is a common understanding of the optimal loading of a G.C with 0.75mV output, or at least an estimate? (I will send mr. Van den Hul an e-mail for advice too)

My version of the Grand Cru is the 0.75mV 5R and the box states optimal loading to be between 20-600 ohms.

Thank You.

 

[Lagonda]

My Benz LPS is getting tired and needs a facelift, i wanted to buy a spare while it was getting surgery, but the waiting time is long. I ended up ordering a Grand Crue Elite from David Karmeli instead, thank you David ! Looking forward to hearing what the fuss is all about !

 

[Ron Resnick]

My Benz LPS is getting tired and needs a facelift, i wanted to buy a spare while it was getting surgery, but the waiting time is long. I ended up ordering a Grand Crue Elite from David Karmeli instead, thank you David ! Looking forward to hearing what the fuss is all about !

I will be very curious to learn your comparative impressions of LP-S MR versus Grand Crue Elite!

 

[Lagonda]

I will be very curious to learn your comparative impressions of LP-S MR versus Grand Crue Elite!

It will hopefully also motivate me to finally have my Io fixed !

 

[infinitely baffled]

My Benz LPS is getting tired and needs a facelift, i wanted to buy a spare while it was getting surgery, but the waiting time is long. I ended up ordering a Grand Crue Elite from David Karmeli instead, thank you David ! Looking forward to hearing what the fuss is all about !

I also have an Elite on order. Although through a different vendor. Will be very interested to hear your impressions.
My Grande Cru was a little too smooth for my liking, I'm requesting something a tad more dynamic. Suspect i will end up partnering it with a Grail phonostage, reason being to permit playing my two turntables back to back.
The issue atm is my Boulder phonostage takes a full minute to switch between inputs, which will spoil the flow

 

[Lagonda]

I also have an Elite on order. Although through a different vendor. Will be very interested to hear your impressions.
My Grande Cru was a little too smooth for my liking, I'm requesting something a tad more dynamic. Suspect i will end up partnering it with a Grail phonostage, reason being to permit playing my two turntables back to back.
The issue atm is my Boulder phonostage takes a full minute to switch between inputs, which will spoil the flow

What phono stage have you been using with your Grand Cru ? How high is the output ? My understanding is that the Elite is smoother than the Master Sig.

 

[infinitely baffled]

I traded my Grand Cru for a Fuuga about a year ago, off the top of my head can't remember the output. I was using my Boulder 1008 phonostage.
But I'm told the Grail should provide a more dynamic presentation as it will better match for the output of the Elite.
(Fuuga seems perfectly happy with the Boulder.)

 

[Lagonda]

I traded my Grand Cru for a Fuuga about a year ago, off the top of my head can't remember the output. I was using my Boulder 1008 phonostage.
But I'm told the Grail should provide a more dynamic presentation as it will better match for the output of the Elite.
(Fuuga seems perfectly happy with the Boulder.)

I was nervous the Grand Cru was going to be to hot for my taste, coming from a relative smooth LPS, this is a new data point. Thank you ! I though you were very happy with your Grand Cru, was it too edgy or to smooth ?

 

[infinitely baffled]

Too smooth.
It had the vdH magic on acoustic music, the breathy realism that leaves no doubt that you have live performers in your room. Zero7 and Alt-j had never sounded better.
But i spend as much time listening to electronica, which is often dynamic and bass driven, and i just wasn't getting that sense of exhilaration, or the fear factor that this genre provides. I had also read reports that the Master Signature Stradivarius was more dynamic, but I'm assured the Elite is the pinnacle of the range, and can be voiced however i prefer.
So i intend to go the whole hog and send some of my favourite records to AJ this time, so that he can tailor the sound to my requirements?

 

[tima]

My Benz LPS is getting tired and needs a facelift, i wanted to buy a spare while it was getting surgery, but the waiting time is long. I ended up ordering a Grand Crue Elite from David Karmeli instead, thank you David ! Looking forward to hearing what the fuss is all about !

That's quite the switch. I have a Benz LPS and vdH Master Sigs. The Elite will give you more top-end extension, airiness and finesse, and generally more tonal depth, articulation and dynamic gradation in the mids and highs. Where it will be interesting is in the bass and mid-bass in terms of weight and solidity. Good luck - maybe you'll get a 5R!

 

[DasguteOhr]

My Benz LPS is getting tired and needs a facelift, i wanted to buy a spare while it was getting surgery, but the waiting time is long. I ended up ordering a Grand Crue Elite from David Karmeli instead, thank you David ! Looking forward to hearing what the fuss is all about !

Congrats, is different animal which will bring a lot of joy. in case you return to Benz at some point. this one here.

MC Scheu Ruby 3 • Cartridges • Scheu Analog

The MC Scheu Ruby 3 pick-up cartridge is based on the Benz Ruby, although the generator is that of the Benz LP.

www.scheu-analogue.com

 

[bonzo75]

Bill has the master sig and Jeroen has different master sigs and the GCs. At Jeroen we marginally preferred the master sig, and they were both on 3012rs. Being in NL, Jeroen has gone through various MS and GC with vdh to experiment with different impedances.

Both Bill and Jeroen have the Dava. The Dava just takes the resolution of the vdh, adds balance and musical nuance, and goes up a level. Jeroen also has the Red sparrow on Vyger for direct comparison, which we preferred to the vdh (as did over 15 people on 4 videos), and both the Dava and the red sparrow bested the vdh at the leading edge attack and transients, which is a vdh strength.

As someone who was vocal about the vdh since 2017, it totally went off my radar with the introduction of the DaVa. The RS with LT is a very different sound so continues to be my top two choice, but DaVa for me just directly displaced vdh

 

[Lagonda]

That's quite the switch. I have a Benz LPS and vdH Master Sigs. The Elite will give you more top-end extension, airiness and finesse, and generally more tonal depth, articulation and dynamic gradation in the mids and highs. Where it will be interesting is in the bass and mid-bass in terms of weight and solidity. Good luck - maybe you'll get a 5R!

It is going to be Karmeli approved, if David has listened to it and checked the specs, it is of higher value to me than someone writing 5R's on the box. I love buying gear from David's Vintage Audio Specialties Inc. it takes the hassle and fear out of the transaction, David always makes it right !

 

[Lagonda]

Congrats, is different animal which will bring a lot of joy. in case you return to Benz at some point. this one here.

MC Scheu Ruby 3 • Cartridges • Scheu Analog

The MC Scheu Ruby 3 pick-up cartridge is based on the Benz Ruby, although the generator is that of the Benz LP.

www.scheu-analogue.com

I will be keeping a Benz LPS on one arm, i also have a 0,1 mv Benz Ebony TR running into a SUT on a airbearing LT arm with front silicon trough for records that need a little help with dynamics and bass response.

 

[Lagonda]

Bill has the master sig and Jeroen has different master sigs and the GCs. At Jeroen we marginally preferred the master sig, and they were both on 3012rs. Being in NL, Jeroen has gone through various MS and GC with vdh to experiment with different impedances.

Both Bill and Jeroen have the Dava. The Dava just takes the resolution of the vdh, adds balance and musical nuance, and goes up a level. Jeroen also has the Red sparrow on Vyger for direct comparison, which we preferred to the vdh (as did over 15 people on 4 videos), and both the Dava and the red sparrow bested the vdh at the leading edge attack and transients, which is a vdh strength.

As someone who was vocal about the vdh since 2017, it totally went off my radar with the introduction of the DaVa. The RS with LT is a very different sound so continues to be my top two choice, but DaVa for me just directly displaced vdh

Maybe i will get a DaVa too at some point, i am just not in love with the added drag on LT arms with extra wires for the field coil. And right now i don't want the long waiting time for a DaVa i would like a new cartridge this year. By then you might have a new top cartridge on the "Ked approved " list anyway !

 

[bonzo75]

Maybe i will get a DaVa too at some point, i am just not in love with the added drag on LT arms with extra wires for the field coil. And right now i don't want the long waiting time for a DaVa i would like a new cartridge this year. By then you might have a new top cartridge on the "Ked approved " list anyway !

Yeah it won't work with an LT, except maybe these pivoted ones like Schroder LT. I think with LT the sonic observations also change compared to with pivots.