"Vinyl is Back for Good and That’s Exciting."

[Ron Resnick]

"Mainstream music’s take-up of the format has led to soaring demand. But beware a trend that drives out indie labels and drives up prices"

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/31/vinyl-labels-mainstream-music-price

 

[NekoAudio]

On the flip side, Luminate's recent Top Entertainment Trends for 2023 report includes this tidbit (via Music Business Worldwide):

50% of consumers who have bought vinyl in the past twelve months own a record player, compared to 15% among Music Listeners overall

These sales seem to be from collectors or people who are using them for decoration. This isn't 50% of sales by units or revenue, but 50% of consumers. However, the article does go on to mention "superfans", or people who spend above average time and money on music, who are also purportedly purchasing for collecting purposes instead of for listening purposes (based on statements from UK industry group BPI circa 2020).

 

[Al M.]

"Mainstream music’s take-up of the format has led to soaring demand. But beware a trend that drives out indie labels and drives up prices"

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/31/vinyl-labels-mainstream-music-price

The author contrasts it with "digital".

Only problem: these days most new vinyl is digital.

Which makes it kind of pointless.

(Of course there are exceptions, but in terms of quantity of vinyl sales they hardly count.)

 

[Lagonda]

On the flip side, Luminate's recent Top Entertainment Trends for 2023 report includes this tidbit (via Music Business Worldwide):

These sales seem to be from collectors or people who are using them for decoration. This isn't 50% of sales by units or revenue, but 50% of consumers. However, the article does go on to mention "superfans", or people who spend above average time and money on music, who are also purportedly purchasing for collecting purposes instead of for listening purposes (based on statements from UK industry group BPI circa 2020).

Many "collectors " are young kids who aspire to owning a great system and a turntable one day, not unlike our own Ked ! The 22 year old son of my best friend has about 50 LP's of mainly Korean and Japanese pop artist and no turntable, he still lives at home, in a suburb to Copenhagen. My friend auditioned a used turntable to buy so the son could play his records, left him alone for 5 minute, and somehow the diamond tip fell of the $ 1000 vintage cartridge the seller had lent him to put the $500 TT in a favorable light He ended up returning the TT, and his insurance company actually paid the seller $ 1000 for his used vintage cartridge I do not know what his deductible is, but a dreams of turntables are temporarily put on hold !

 

[Kingrex]

My friend auditioned a used turntable to buy so the son could play his records, left him alone for 5 minute, and somehow the diamond tip fell of the $ 1000 vintage cartridge the seller had lent him to put the $500 TT in a favorable light

My brother got a server for his whole house audio. Had trouble hooking it up, crossed some input/output wires and smoked the unit.

 

[Kingrex]

I was chatting with a friend. We both agree, new digitally processed vinyl is pretty much the same to listen to on vinyl or digital. So, neither of us purchase new vinyl anymore. So I could care less that vinyl sales are growing. I would actually prefer sales fall so people quit driving up the price of old analog vinyl and maybe release what they got back to the market.

 

[ssfas]

This guy, writing in a UK paper, is talking rubbish. The UK independent labels are generally thriving, and generally prices have remained sensible. An excellent label a few miles away, World Circuit Records, who do a lot of analog recordings, generally charge £20 for an album and £25 for a double album (about $25 / $32). They are not alone. There are lots of record stores full of people of all ages.

There are also excellent used record stores where most items are $5 to $10.

You won't find the audiophile stuff in any of these stores. They are sold online. Most don't even bother with the Blue Note type of stuff. I get mine from an online store that sells it often cheaper than Blue Note direct.

My son aged 26 and his girlfriend 27 are big record collectors. They never pay audiophile prices. They buy all over the place. They were in Seoul recently and if you think vinyl is dying you should see the record stores over there.

Even though I and her father have decent stereo systems, they have no interest in hifi. Most of their their gear is hand-me-down from us, and an amplifier that my son bought 10 years ago for $300. It was made in 1984 and I paid $150 to get it serviced and recapped by the original designer.

So my experience is different to @Lagonda. Many of my son's friends are big into music and they go as a group to loads of gigs and festivals, collect records and a couple of them are sound engineers, but none of them have any interest in hifi.

They usually have headphones around their neck - they use Sony WH-100XM4.

Kids like mine and his girlfriend on limited budgets recycle stuff, sell and buy a lot on Discogs. They see no point in keeping records they don't play or have moved on from, they'd rather sell and use the money for new stuff.

The author really has no idea.

 

[Nemal1]

Which online Uk stores are they if you don’t mind sharing?
whilst I do buy audiophile records, not much is really to my taste preferring electronic music, but will wait for some titles to be reduced as the prices are generally too high. An example being the one step I robot from Juno records, approximately 30% less than other retailers

 

[ssfas]

Which online Uk stores are they if you don’t mind sharing?
whilst I do buy audiophile records, not much is really to my taste preferring electronic music, but will wait for some titles to be reduced as the prices are generally too high. An example being the one step I robot from Juno records, approximately 30% less than other retailers

Juno.

 

[thedudeabides]

Well, I put my flame retardant jacket on. So here goes.

There are certainly younger adults that buy records because they are very connected to music and vinyl. But, the vast majority of this group buy because it is the current rave. This sector of the market will be dead in the near future once the fad is no longer in vogue.

Members here will continue to support this product but the fact is that most of you are in your golden years. This market sector will also decline in the not too distant future.

So where does it leave the future of analogue as a vialbe, profitable product when the vast majority of our younger generation has become addicted tp cell phones as their primary source of information?

 

[Lagonda]

Well, I put my flame retardant jacket on. So here goes.

There are certainly younger adults that buy records because they are very connected to music and vinyl. But, the vast majority of this group buy because it is the current rave. This sector of the market will be dead in the near future once the fad is no longer in vogue.

Members here will continue to support this product but the fact is that most of you are in your golden years. This market sector will also decline in the not too distant future.

So where does it leave the future of analogue as a vialbe, profitable product when the vast majority of our younger generation has become addicted tp cell phones as their primary source of information?

I agree, but don't underestimate what they will do to be cool ! But i don't see them as a future crop of audiophiles, they are just not dumb enough !

 

[ssfas]

Well, I put my flame retardant jacket on. So here goes.

There are certainly younger adults that buy records because they are very connected to music and vinyl. But, the vast majority of this group buy because it is the current rave. This sector of the market will be dead in the near future once the fad is no longer in vogue.

Members here will continue to support this product but the fact is that most of you are in your golden years. This market sector will also decline in the not too distant future.

So where does it leave the future of analogue as a vialbe, profitable product when the vast majority of our younger generation has become addicted tp cell phones as their primary source of information?

For my son and his friends it's not a current rave. At age 14 he managed to gate-crash a Kasabian album launch at Abbey Road (he got that album for free). He's been to Glastonbury with all his mates every year since he was 15. Over a decade of record collecting at age 26, plays guitar well, did weekly student radio, musical interests from delta blues onwards and enjoys nothing more than an afternoon playing records and painting (he's a very competent artist, as is his art curator girlfriend). Music is a big part of their social life.

I think you have a rather stereotypical media-biased view of today's youth. We live in a small hamlet of about 10 million people, where there is so much music, festivals, art and culture you really have to prioritise - and record stores all over the place.

Lots of audiophiles buy the same vinyl stuff for its sonic qualities and to justify the existence of their uber-hifi systems. That ridiculous RCA Royal Ballet disc is a classic example. Steely Dan? I gave that up 30 years ago. My son and his friends buy vinyl because they see loads of bands and he enjoys discovering about music. I didn't think he had any interest in jazz beyond guitar, then the other day he told me he's just read a biography of Ornette Coleman.

Hopefully when the golden variety audiophiles pass off their mortal coil, their vinyl collections will find their way to Discogs or used record stores and my kids' generation can pick them up at sensible prices.

 

[ssfas]

I agree, but don't underestimate what they will do to be cool ! But i don't see them as a future crop of audiophiles, they are just not dumb enough !

It's quite condescending to suggest that younger people buy records just to be cool. Maybe they're seriously interested in music, whereas a lot of audiophiles seem to be far more interested in audio gear and sound quality. For my last birthday my son gave me a hand-made box set of really interesting music with no audiophile pretensions.

 

[XV-1]

For my son and his friends it's not a current rave. At age 14 he managed to gate-crash a Kasabian album launch at Abbey Road (he got that album for free). He's been to Glastonbury with all his mates every year since he was 15. Over a decade of record collecting at age 26, plays guitar well, did weekly student radio, musical interests from delta blues onwards and enjoys nothing more than an afternoon playing records and painting (he's a very competent artist, as is his art curator girlfriend). Music is a big part of their social life.

I think you have a rather stereotypical media-biased view of today's youth. We live in a small hamlet of about 10 million people, where there is so much music, festivals, art and culture you really have to prioritise - and record stores all over the place.

Lots of audiophiles buy the same vinyl stuff for its sonic qualities and to justify the existence of their uber-hifi systems. That ridiculous RCA Royal Ballet disc is a classic example. Steely Dan? I gave that up 30 years ago. My son and his friends buy vinyl because they see loads of bands and he enjoys discovering about music. I didn't think he had any interest in jazz beyond guitar, then the other day he told me he's just read a biography of Ornette Coleman.

Hopefully when the golden variety audiophiles pass off their mortal coil, their vinyl collections will find their way to Discogs or used record stores and my kids' generation can pick them up at sensible prices.

Bravo. Well said. Unfortunately most here on WBF are old pharts(musical tastes) and wouldn't know new music if it hit them across the head.

Both my daughters boyfriends - 23 and 26 both buy vinyl, as you said music is important and offers a much better physical experience than streaming. I don't know a single young person that buys cd's - that is another debate thou.

4 out of every 5 new albums I buy definitely sound better than the digital counterpart.

I put out a list of the best 2023 albums. As you can see from the lack of replies, new music is not on the lips of many WBF members

2023 Albums of the Year

We all know that plenty is spent on equipment on WBF. Lets see how much new music is being bought and listened to. Personally I bought about 135 albums in 2023 so far. Album of the Year: CASisDEAD - Famous Last Words - amazing hip hop/grime album on XL Recordings - the perfect blend of UK...

whatsbestforum.com

Considering vinyl was dead in 1990, it's doing a very good job staying relevant, hip and musically convincing vs it's digital peers.

cheers

 

[tima]

Considering vinyl was dead in 1990, it's doing a very good job staying relevant, hip and musically convincing vs it's digital peers.

In the year 2002 the CD era was in full swing. CDs made up 93% of all recorded music sales — a huge slice of the pie. Vinyl record sales were 2/10ths of 1%

Today, vinyl abides.

 

[ssfas]

Bravo. Well said. Unfortunately most here on WBF are old pharts(musical tastes) and wouldn't know new music if it hit them across the head.

Both my daughters boyfriends - 23 and 26 both buy vinyl, as you said music is important and offers a much better physical experience than streaming. I don't know a single young person that buys cd's - that is another debate thou.

4 out of every 5 new albums I buy definitely sound better than the digital counterpart.

I put out a list of the best 2023 albums. As you can see from the lack of replies, new music is not on the lips of many WBF members

https://whatsbestforum.com/threads/american-sound-as-2000-installations-far-east-tango.26052/page-75

Considering vinyl was dead in 1990, it's doing a very good job staying relevant, hip and musically convincing vs it's digital peers.

cheers

I think the vinyl recovery was because some people like a physical medium and CDs were disappearing to streaming. That opened the door to vinyl and people just like it because it's attractive, you get liner notes and it encourages more attentive listening.

For people like our kids it's nothing to do with sound quality, whereas for audiophiles they will fight to the death over it being about sound quality.

I buy vinyl, but I stream most of the time and buy digital downloads that cannot be streamed. I don't listen to long dead German conductors, I listen to classical performers I listen to live on a regular basis.

Our main interest is ballet, contemporary dance and physical theatre. The first show we went to on our second date in 1992 was by the Aussie Lloyd Newson and his company DV8. That sort of thing would probably horrify most people here - or anywhere. Tragically his protege Tanja Liedke, also Australian, was hit by a truck in Sydney after arriving to take over the Sydney Dance Company. She was marvellous.

I can't see your list.

 

[ssfas]

In the year 2002 the CD era was in full swing. CDs made up 93% of all recorded music sales — a huge slice of the pie. Vinyl record sales were 2/10ths of 1%

Today, vinyl abides.

You can get all the the data for sales volume and value here

U.S. Music Revenue Database - RIAA

The RIAA provides the most comprehensive data on U.S. recorded music revenues and shipments dating all the way back to... Read More »

www.riaa.com

Sales may have declined, but there was so much vinyl out there it was still being listed to. The same may be the case for CDs.

Personally, I stopped using CDs in 2010.

 

[Rexp]

Well, I put my flame retardant jacket on. So here goes.

There are certainly younger adults that buy records because they are very connected to music and vinyl. But, the vast majority of this group buy because it is the current rave. This sector of the market will be dead in the near future once the fad is no longer in vogue.

Members here will continue to support this product but the fact is that most of you are in your golden years. This market sector will also decline in the not too distant future.

So where does it leave the future of analogue as a vialbe, profitable product when the vast majority of our younger generation has become addicted tp cell phones as their primary source of information?

As long as record companies continue to churn out garbage digital releases, vinyl will continue to be of interest for young and old alike.

 

[tima]

You can get all the the data for sales volume and value here

Of course - that is where those numbers came from.

The years 1973 through 2018 saw nearly $29 billion in new vinyl sales. So there are plenty of records to hear. And with contemporary cleaning technology, it's easier now to revive old records and preserve new ones.

 

[Lagonda]

It's quite condescending to suggest that younger people buy records just to be cool. Maybe they're seriously interested in music, whereas a lot of audiophiles seem to be far more interested in audio gear and sound quality. For my last birthday my son gave me a hand-made box set of really interesting music with no audiophile pretensions.
View attachment 122705

I am not saying they are not interested in music, they have surprisingly versatile taste and knowledge, a lot of the young people buying vinyl do it because it is considered cool, and can not really appreciate what good vinyl can sound like, they should just stick to streaming,