Wow! This looks really amazing. I love to work with wood too and would very much like to hear more about your process. The horns that you’ve turned look quite beautiful!
Visit to Audiophile Bill to hear his horns project
- Thread starter spiritofmusic
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Nice write up Spirit ... Bill , kudos on your single minded pursuit of excellence. Look forward to reading and seeing more. Good Luck with completing the project.
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He is crossing at approx 200. JMLC will be as big as the room at that point.
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Did Bill make you sign an ND ..? If not where are the pics ...!
Send in Ked ....
Hi, I visited before lockdown, and would have done more if not for lockdown. Before writing, I was planning to listen to the system in the foll. different ways:
1. His current room, in which he has voiced the speakers in, is small. Before this I had never heard a proper horn in a room this small, as there are no real full horns for small rooms, except for the likes of duos, Chopin, etc, and I think anyone who has read my posts with a passing glance knows what I think of those. So I am waiting to hear Bill's horns in a bigger room which he is building, to see how they scale.
2. The AER/Mayer 46/LT+Red sparrow is a winning combination, possibly the best for classical and jazz upper range. However with Pnoe's alternatives in terms of amps or cartridges never did remotely well, and that was fine because the General had tens of thousands of the purest LPs to play on his system. However I am waiting to hear Bill's with alternatives - different amps, different cart, digital - to see how it does in different set ups.
3. When I visited, he did not have the class A amp he was planning to run on the woofers, we heard the Rotel - so I will wait to hear that, with changes in crossovers to see the effect.
But largely I agree with what Marc has written, and when you hear this bass solution it is a bit sad to see why users let speakers like duos and Liszt (which have a similar width of midbass cabinet) get away with what they do, and even pay a premium for it.
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They do look good Bill.
All I will say is after hearing the Pnoe and then the AxJets at Munich, when I heard about your project months back I regarded it as extremely high risk.
The contrast between the AxJets and the Pnoe could not have been anticipated. A massive difference and in the case of the AxJets it was very definitely NOT in their favour.
However from what Marc says it looks like you have pulled it off. Well done!
My own speakers are in bits at the moment... and NOT looking very pretty...
More on that elsewhere maybe.
Anyway nice woodwork that must feel seriously rewarding.
All I will say is after hearing the Pnoe and then the AxJets at Munich, when I heard about your project months back I regarded it as extremely high risk.
The contrast between the AxJets and the Pnoe could not have been anticipated. A massive difference and in the case of the AxJets it was very definitely NOT in their favour.
However from what Marc says it looks like you have pulled it off. Well done!
My own speakers are in bits at the moment... and NOT looking very pretty...
More on that elsewhere maybe.
Anyway nice woodwork that must feel seriously rewarding.
The pnoe and axjet at Munich were not at all representative of how the pnoe sound. They were being run at 100 watts hybrid, the axjet by 50 watts of Riviera, while they should be run at under 3 watts of pure valves. Because of the pnoe at Munich I did not visit the General for a few months to check out his system because I was expecting to be disappointed, and was quite surprised by how much of a contrast it was to Munich, easily catapulting it into among the best ever.
Well you should hear them at the General's then if you think Munich was amazing. Btw even at G I didn't like them with other amps
Hi Al,
I am saving full photos etc until I finalise my last baffle design but the rest of the system is:
> Bergmann Sindre with Red Sparrow
> NVO Spa II SE (couple of mods)
> Mayer 10y
> Mayer 46 SE monoblocks
> Room is 24’ x 11’ (and part of that is taken up by alcove) so much smaller than my other room. We are creating new room next year which is much bigger (35’ x 32’). There are 3 GIK monster traps in there with scatter planes. 6 diffusors too.
> No digital at moment but will be sorting something out soon.
> Mains filters are custom and Isotek
> Cables are Sablon primarily with some other homemade stuff too.
35 by 32 is pretty decent
I have my Duettas in 35 by 14 these days but I don't think they'd like bigger. I have a much larger room in the main house but it's banned for anything approaching real hi-fi
I have my Duettas in 35 by 14 these days but I don't think they'd like bigger. I have a much larger room in the main house but it's banned for anything approaching real hi-fi
Bill, hopefully the forthcoming pics of your finished speakers will convey the fantastic impression they give in the flesh. I may be wrong, but I don't think there's anything out there that comes even close to the solidity of that main horn, and the continuosness of the wood heft with your lower split baffle and sub structure/internals.
I often look at spkrs and am amazed by how flimsy they seem. My Zus are no exception. I know there are the super dense alternatives like Rockport, Wilson, Magico and YG. But so many uber priced speakers are really built to a non uber level. Bill's horns absolutely exude quality and are as solid in construction as you're going to find this side of a Rockport, eg.
So many horns also look incongruous. The Diesis is maybe one of the few that is going to appeal to the well-heeled buyer that wants his horns to complement his nicely coordinated interior. Well, Bill's horns need to be added to the list, because they totally exude understated style. Hard to get a horn to achieve this, but Bill is there.
And where Bill will be in a class of his own will be the artisanal nature of the product that will lead directly to extreme pride of ownership. The owner will know the sheer sweat and grind that went into the product, and his wife/GF will absolutely love having these in her precious space.
Of course, this would be sad if the sound shortchanged the looks, but the sound is in total keeping with the aesthetics, and represents a really subtle, holistic take on that traditional horns presentation.
I often look at spkrs and am amazed by how flimsy they seem. My Zus are no exception. I know there are the super dense alternatives like Rockport, Wilson, Magico and YG. But so many uber priced speakers are really built to a non uber level. Bill's horns absolutely exude quality and are as solid in construction as you're going to find this side of a Rockport, eg.
So many horns also look incongruous. The Diesis is maybe one of the few that is going to appeal to the well-heeled buyer that wants his horns to complement his nicely coordinated interior. Well, Bill's horns need to be added to the list, because they totally exude understated style. Hard to get a horn to achieve this, but Bill is there.
And where Bill will be in a class of his own will be the artisanal nature of the product that will lead directly to extreme pride of ownership. The owner will know the sheer sweat and grind that went into the product, and his wife/GF will absolutely love having these in her precious space.
Of course, this would be sad if the sound shortchanged the looks, but the sound is in total keeping with the aesthetics, and represents a really subtle, holistic take on that traditional horns presentation.
Hi Ron,
The origins of the woofer design started based on Nelson Pass’s slot loaded open baffle work. I attach the Pass Report as he is clearly far more eloquent than I on the matter. From there it evolved significantly to where it is currently over countless changes and iterations measured but also by listening tests.
http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_slob.pdf
Best.
35 by 32 is pretty decent
I have my Duettas in 35 by 14 these days but I don't think they'd like bigger. I have a much larger room in the main house but it's banned for anything approaching real hi-fi
I have an understanding wife lol. I am “allowed” a system in both the rooms, which is nice
Big congrats on the wonderful work, Bill
I bet they must sound absolutely awesome
Funny you call THIS a "prototype" while 99.85% of the speakers manufacturers don't even come close to this level of craftmanship with their lofty priced finished offerings
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Yes I used Track Audio M10s initially on these as they had to withstand a ridiculous 170kg load per side (that is the current weight per speaker although trying to diet it). I was surprised that not many products were able to handle such loads.
Subsequently my new footers are custom lathed solid steel one piece designs with capacity over a tonne - obviously much bigger beasts.
Big congrats on the wonderful work, Bill
I bet the must sound absolutely awesome
Funny you call THIS a "prototype" while 99.85% of the speakers manufacturers don't even come close to this level of craftmanship with their lofty priced finished offerings
Thank you very much indeed for these super kind words, Christoph. That is really nice and rewarding for me as I have poured my life and soul into this project.
I like the sound myself but I know speakers are very personal things.
Hi Barry,
Sorry I missed the question below on horn geometry type.
I just wrote you a fairly long PM about this choice but for wider dissemination the functional form of the JMLC curve with the roll back built in hardwood, using the wall *thickness* I wanted would mean the horn needing to protrude too far forward on the chassis body causing time alignment issues since the 8” driver voicecoil would be well forward of the bass module voicecoils.
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