Yes I'm finished on the topic. Those who wish to remain ignorant can choose to do so. The open minded have enough information to work with.
Vivid Giya G3
- Thread starter dallasjustice
- Start date
Yes I'm finished on the topic. Those who wish to remain ignorant can choose to do so. The open minded have enough information to work with.
It is ok we if we all agree to disagree, the main thing is do we get enjoyment out of the equipment we use.
I suppose the question of "are we getting value for our money" is irrelevant at this price point anyways. Chances are if they doubled the price from what they are today, people would still enjoy them. Just like people would immensely enjoy the $2700 Mundorf M30 speaker kit.
but I bet if the M30 was pre-assembled and sold for $10000, some people would enjoy it even more. Not much bragging rights to be had from a $2700 speaker.
Huh? You can't tell from these two plots that the vivid has superior lateral off-axis? When it comes to loudspeaker specs, THE loudspeaker spec over all others is the lateral off axis plot (some call it polar response). There are only a few loudspeakers in the world which have lateral off axis that good. This is what matters.
I wouldn't give a fart for the part if it the speaker had lateral off axis that loses significant energy above 1khz and shelves straight down above 5khz.
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Hi Blizzard,
We haven’t been formally introduced, but I’ll go first:
I’m 853guy - named for my favourtie material for making steel hard-tail single speed mountain bikes from, and used as an anonymous moniker to protect my family from the ridiculousness that is the internet’s inherent lack of privacy. I work in advertising with which I have a somewhat ambivalent relationship, like pina coladas and getting caught in the rain.
Anyway, enough about me. Let me tell you quickly about two of my really close friends, Marc and Iain. One is a quant, who started his own hedge fund before joining SAC Capital and now splits his time between consulting for private banks on data analysis and running his fund; the other is an engineer with several patents related to semiconductors, who has turned down offers from a certain company in Cupertino, California for the sake of his family who are settled here in Europe.
I can say, without neither hesitation nor exaggeration, these two are the smartest guys I’ve ever met in my life. Like, stupidly smart. Just being around them makes me feel clever, and I dropped out of university. In some ways, you remind me of them. But here’s why I really like them…
They’re not theorists. Oh, they have lots of theories about lots of things. But that’s only partially relevant. They’re practitioners. They put their money where their mouth is. Everyday, they either contribute to the bottom line of the companies they work for, or they go find something else to do. That is to say, Marc and Iain’s ideas are only as good as their ability to be concretely monetized, and the only way to do that is through implementation via a strategy of risk in which the outcome is often only partially knowable from the outset. I asked Iain whether he’s ever been asked to implement the very best of his ideas. He said no, the reason being that the best of his ideas are too costly to implement in a real-world situation, and part of being a great engineer is the ability to pursue ingenuity within the context of the companies R&D budget. No one wants the best idea if the best idea bankrupts the company in the process of bringing it to market. Marc, the quant, is constantly balancing up-side with potential down-side, especially given the amount of leverage needed in order to make the trades worthwhile.
Long story short: They don’t spend their time on forums. They spend their time bringing their ideas to market, and letting the market determine whether their ideas have any purchase in a sea of thousands of other competing ideas. Lots of smart people have lots of clever ideas (especially trading ideas) but few of those are actually implemented by people with skin in the game. Lawrence Dickie has skin in the game. I like a lot of your ideas, but whether you’ll be known best for the number of revolutionary products in customer's homes, or your total post count on various forums as yet remains to be seen.
In all sincerity, I wish you the best of luck.
Yes but if you use Home Depot extension cord for speaker wire, would the lateral off axis response suffer? If not, that's what I would do, and save a few bucks. After all speaker cables are just "parts".
Parts are not going to change the basic attributes of drivers in a cabinet. They will just allow more of the original signal to pass adding clarity.
Blizzard, my perspective is a little different than others on this forum. I think there are many valid points of view. However, there is only one point of view which matters; mine.
For me, the only way to really know what difference various parts make to the lateral off axis, or any other important speaker measurement, is to do it and then measure it. I personally am not interested in parts shootouts. I have no interest in cable shootouts. There's a huge subforum on WBF where you will find many like minded folks who like to talk about their latest power cable or speaker cable. I've been there and done that. I don't care about all that now.
Hi 853Guy,
Yes I hear what your saying. I have just started spending time on forums a couple months ago, specifically for market research. It won't be long before I drop off the face of the earth. Many of the topics I bring up are intended to just get opinions about how the average audiophile views things. My plan from the start was to just be 100% honest and open about audio gear, and see how the average guy react's. Based on what my knowledgeable friends in the industry tell me, their research is indeed correct. Lawrence Dickie isn't a stupid man, and he's probably reaping the rewards because of the decisions he's made.
Thanks for the luck!
Parts cannot change a drivers dispersion pattern or frequency response. Parts cannot change a drivers response off axis after being placed into a cabinet. Unless notch filters or other methods have been used with parts.
I would urge caution here... Even the S7 crossover you included photos of isn't using the most advanced Mundorf capacitors all around; notice the use the new EVOs (white caps), also used in the M-Project. And even in the EVO line, there is the lower-end "red" markings version (what you show in the S7) - rated at 7.5 by Tony - to the top-of-the-line light-gold-markings EVO Silver Gold version rated at only 9-... I believe the latter is what's used in the M-Projects. Contrast this with the Supremes (black caps), which are rated at 10 and higher. Even Mundorf themselves acknowledge that the EVOs are below the Supremes: "The beauty of the MCap EVO Silver Gold Oil's music performance is only surpassed by Mundorf's top-line Supreme capacitors". However, having heard the M-Projects, it's hard to argue the EVO are not good enough, but perhaps there is room for improvement, if the Q7's use of the Supremes all around (what I also use) is any indication...
Bottom line is, parts quality is one thing, but one must really look at the entire implementation... This is why I am still interested in listening to the Giya, but from a technology perspective, I have lost all interest... BUT, for similar reasons, I have lost interest in the S7s as well, as I don't care for the lower-end EVOs.
I understand that you use a blend of caps that meet the price/performance/profit balance you are aiming to meet. And all caps have a different tonal quality, so you match the cap for the sound profile that works best with the driver, and subjective tastes. This is why you'll see some designers cascade caps together, to create a special blend. This also reduces microphonics.
This exactly why Tony says:
" A higher rating does not automatically mean that one capacitor is better than another. A hi-fi system is a very complex sum of many variables, a capacitor is only one part of that total, so depending on implementation things may vary a little"
In the case of the Vivid's, you don't see this blending. They are all the standard cheapie caps specifically chosen for low cost.
But I imagine if Magico was to build a $1000000 cost no object passive speaker, they would use 100% Dueland parts. I haven't heard any speaker designer say they can voice a blend of parts better than just using 100% Duelands. But they are much too expensive to be practical for most speakers.
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I have some spare Dueland copper and silver caps,from an amplifier project , the designer preferred silver and I trusted his judgement, but it would be interesting to ddirectly compare capacitors, make versions of each and compare them unsighted.
Electrically I guess they should be identical,
Keith.
Electrically I guess they should be identical,
Keith.
Since your signature tagline refers to education, it may carry more weight if you change the second instance of "your" to the proper "you're".Blizzard said:
He better like them better! For example a 6.8mfd Dueland CAST copper cap has an MSRP for $700 each. When the Silver version has an MSRP of a whopping $10,289.48 USD each!! In comparison a 6.8mfd Bennic costs around $3 each.
Here's an article that will blow minds! I wonder why they didn't use the Bennic's for the upgrade?
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue74/duelund.htm
Thanks's for pointing that out. I'm not here to teach grammar lessons I guess!
Parts can change our perception of fine details, even localization in stereo. Since a few years ago I have two pairs of backplates for my Soundlabs - a standard set and one rebuilt with same value Mundorf parts. They measured the same and sounded different.
Exactly! Micro details and added clarity. No amount of Dueland $10,000.00 capacitors can fix a bad driver design or implementation.
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