Wadax Reference Dac and Server arrive

[Mike Lavigne]

Hi Mike,

Didn’t you used to say that the MSB Select II DAC was very close to your best vinyl pressings? I remember reading this numerous times with your posts on your MSB thread. If that’s the case, then what conclusion are we to draw about the Wadax Reference DAC?

Ken

hi Ken,

without searching my comments and phrases i used, my recollection is that i viewed the MSB Select as near vinyl. but your term 'best pressings' was not one i recall using for the MSB. i don't use that for the Wadax combo either. i have distinguished what i hear from my best pressings as beyond the Wadax combo. also that in direct A/B comparison that good vinyl is better than the Wadax.

i did say that MSB's presentation possessed many vinyl attributes such as continuousness and lack of edge/etch. it was not flat or sterile. i could listen for hours and not get bored. i could go back and forth from digital to vinyl and not feel like i was stepping down. i could experience levels of 'suspension of disbelief' with the MSB Select. and compared to any digital i had heard to that point it was a new level and held it's own in my system beyond any previous digital. i felt that way about the MSB Select and still do.

the Wadax combo takes these ideas to a different level of higher degrees of all those things. while also doing new things more vinyl like such as the performers coming to life, the venue and space around the music having much more definition, and the action and nuance being on the same type level as vinyl. listening to better recordings on the Wadax, whatever digital format, you could easily assume you are listening to vinyl. the MSB was not like that.

i was definitely excited and all in with the MSB for almost 5 years, and am still very impressed with it. and understand that my vinyl has improved since i first got the MSB with my CS Port and Saskia tt's, my Etsuro Gold cartridges, LFD cables, and CS Port phono with the EMIA SUT's. so the goal posts have moved for digital in my system.....to compete takes more. and now the goal posts will be moving for my digital as i push the vinyl too. music reproduction performance levels do not stand still. the MSB Select 2 is now a 7-8 year old digital product. in digital product terms of being top-dog that is forever. and it's still at the top. just not the tip top crazy bleeding edge.

i would still choose the MSB Select 2 if i was choosing other than the Wadax Ref combo.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Mike, from what I heard from the DaVa at Bill's, I confidently predict vinyl at another level once your DaVa is in. I feel a little sorry for digital trying for preeminence over vinyl. Just when digital achieves a step change like the Wadax combo, along comes yet another amazing cart.
There's just more in analog's toolkit, any number of new, amazing implements.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike, I know you have to wryly smile at those like me who aim to spend your money. Now I'm talking about moving your gear about. Sorry, can you ever forgive me? Lol.

don't change Marc. i know you like to be the handicapper (for more than just myself) from time to time. nothing to forgive.

 

[Alpinist]

hi Ken,

without searching my comments and phrases i used, my recollection is that i viewed the MSB Select as near vinyl. but your term 'best pressings' was not one i recall using for the MSB. i don't use that for the Wadax combo either. i have distinguished what i hear from my best pressings as beyond the Wadax combo. also that in direct A/B comparison that good vinyl is better than the Wadax.

i did say that MSB's presentation possessed many vinyl attributes such as continuousness and lack of edge/etch. it was not flat or sterile. i could listen for hours and not get bored. i could go back and forth from digital to vinyl and not feel like i was stepping down. i could experience levels of 'suspension of disbelief' with the MSB Select. and compared to any digital i had heard to that point it was a new level and held it's own in my system beyond any previous digital. i felt that way about the MSB Select and still do.

the Wadax combo takes these ideas to a different level of higher degrees of all those things. while also doing new things more vinyl like such as the performers coming to life, the venue and space around the music having much more definition, and the action and nuance being on the same type level as vinyl. listening to better recordings on the Wadax, whatever digital format, you could easily assume you are listening to vinyl. the MSB was not like that.

i was definitely excited and all in with the MSB for almost 5 years, and am still very impressed with it. and understand that my vinyl has improved since i first got the MSB with my CS Port and Saskia tt's, my Etsuro Gold cartridges, LFD cables, and CS Port phono with the EMIA SUT's. so the goal posts have moved for digital in my system.....to compete takes more. and now the goal posts will be moving for my digital as i push the vinyl too. music reproduction performance levels do not stand still. the MSB Select 2 is now a 7-8 year old digital product. in digital product terms of being top-dog that is forever. and it's still at the top. just not the tip top crazy bleeding edge.

i would still choose the MSB Select 2 if i was choosing other than the Wadax Ref combo.

Fair enough Mike. I’m just still having trouble reconciling your listening experience with the Wadax Reference System to mine, especially since we were in such strong agreement about the amazing sonics of the Select II DAC.

Ken

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Fair enough Mike. I’m just still having trouble reconciling your listening experience with the Wadax Reference System to mine, especially since we were in such strong agreement about the amazing sonics of the Select II DAC.

Ken

also fair Ken. note how much trouble i went to, to make sure i was making a good decision to change. i listened in Florida to the Wadax combo in a mature room i had previously heard the 7 box CH Precision Mono dac in. i insisted that i have the Wadax gear in my room to directly compare it to the MSB Select 2. i made sure all the pieces were optimized. i had multiple visitors listen with me multiple times (including both MSB Select 2 and Extreme server owners) to all the different combinations of dacs and servers.

i took an extremely serious approach to this. all-in. the MSB deserved that type of respectful investigation to justify a change.

listening to an audio show demo, and trying to pick out a source truth, is a different kettle of fish which is a much ballyhooed subject. not going there.

i appreciate yours and other's MSB love. i share that love.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike, from what I heard from the DaVa at Bill's, I confidently predict vinyl at another level once your DaVa is in. I feel a little sorry for digital trying for preeminence over vinyl. Just when digital achieves a step change like the Wadax combo, along comes yet another amazing cart.
There's just more in analog's toolkit, any number of new, amazing implements.

discussion for another thread.......

 

[spiritofmusic]

Indeed.

 

[microstrip]

Mike, from what I heard from the DaVa at Bill's, I confidently predict vinyl at another level once your DaVa is in. I feel a little sorry for digital trying for preeminence over vinyl. Just when digital achieves a step change like the Wadax combo, along comes yet another amazing cart.
There's just more in analog's toolkit, any number of new, amazing implements.

Marc,

I am more down-to-earth. I simply say that there is more in our minds, systems and preferences. In this hobby, unless we have rigid mentors, we are the lawyer, the jury and the judge. This always assures us of an amazing tomorrow if we want so, irrespective of media.

 

[Al M.]

Marc,

I am more down-to-earth. I simply say that there is more in our minds, systems and preferences. In this hobby, unless we have rigid mentors, we are the lawyer, the jury and the judge. This always assures us of an amazing tomorrow if we want so, irrespective of media.

You make way too much sense, Francisco.

I love it.

 

[Alpinist]

also fair Ken. note how much trouble i went to, to make sure i was making a good decision to change. i listened in Florida to the Wadax combo in a mature room i had previously heard the 7 box CH Precision Mono dac in. i insisted that i have the Wadax gear in my room to directly compare it to the MSB Select 2. i made sure all the pieces were optimized. i had multiple visitors listen with me multiple times (including both MSB Select 2 and Extreme server owners) to all the different combinations of dacs and servers.

i took an extremely serious approach to this. all-in. the MSB deserved that type of respectful investigation to justify a change.

listening to an audio show demo, and trying to pick out a source truth, is a different kettle of fish which is a much ballyhooed subject. not going there.

i appreciate yours and other's MSB love. i share that love.

Hi Mike,

I am in no position to dispute the findings of you and your friends in your head-to-head comparison of the Wadax Reference DAC and MSB Select II DAC. I’m sure you know what you heard.

I just have one last question and I’ll let this rest. Did you ever send the Select II DAC (specifically the DAC chassis) back to MSB for an inspection / tuneup? Your particular Select II DAC traveled halfway around the world and back (California, Eastern Europe, New York City, Seattle) and the two previous owners didn’t hold onto it for very long. Is it possible that this Select II DAC isn’t performing at 100%? There are some individuals of note who believe this may be the case.

Ken

 

[spiritofmusic]

Marc,

I am more down-to-earth. I simply say that there is more in our minds, systems and preferences. In this hobby, unless we have rigid mentors, we are the lawyer, the jury and the judge. This always assures us of an amazing tomorrow if we want so, irrespective of media.

Lawyer, judge and jury. Let's hope we have all the evidence as well, otherwise quite a few purchases could go to appeal.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Hi Mike,

I am in no position to dispute the findings of you and your friends in your head-to-head comparison of the Wadax Reference DAC and MSB Select II DAC. I’m sure you know what you heard.

I just have one last question and I’ll let this rest. Did you ever send the Select II DAC (specifically the DAC chassis) back to MSB for an inspection / tuneup? Your particular Select II DAC traveled halfway around the world and back (California, Eastern Europe, New York City, Seattle) and the two previous owners didn’t hold onto it for very long. Is it possible that this Select II DAC isn’t performing at 100%? There are some individuals of note who believe this may be the case.

Ken

hi Ken,

if someone wants to bring another freshened MSB Select 2 here to compare happy to oblige. nothing to hide. anytime. there are a number of local ones.

interesting that with my close relationship with Vince over the years that this issue never came up until i did this compare. he never suggested i do that. never heard anyone suggest it to me. or that someone sent their early Select 2 in for this update and got back a better sounding Select 2. and i pay very close attention to stuff like that.

just say'n.

Mike

 

[Audiophile Bill]

hi Ken,

if someone wants to bring another freshened MSB Select 2 here to compare happy to oblige. nothing to hide. anytime. there are a number of local ones.

interesting that with my close relationship with Vince over the years that this issue never came up until i did this compare. he never suggested i do that. never heard anyone suggest it to me. or that someone sent their early Select 2 in for this update and got back a better sounding Select 2. and i pay very close attention to stuff like that.

just say'n.

Mike

I wouldn’t take any notice, Mike. As a total neutral observer here it comes across as sour grapes and beyond low imho.

Enjoy your weekend.

 

[Al M.]

I wouldn’t take any notice, Mike. As a total neutral observer here it comes across as sour grapes and beyond low imho.

Enjoy your weekend.

Agreed. Fortunately I have a *great* sounding, musically immensely satisfying, DAC on which I haven't spent a lot if money. So I don't have to worry about losing a "spot at the top".

If you are flying close to the sun...

 

[Alpinist]

hi Ken,

if someone wants to bring another freshened MSB Select 2 here to compare happy to oblige. nothing to hide. anytime. there are a number of local ones.

interesting that with my close relationship with Vince over the years that this issue never came up until i did this compare. he never suggested i do that. never heard anyone suggest it to me. or that someone sent their early Select 2 in for this update and got back a better sounding Select 2. and i pay very close attention to stuff like that.

just say'n.

Mike

Hi Mike,

Sorry if I struck a nerve. It was not my intention. I do think it was a fair question though considering the history of the unit. Best of luck with your Wadax Reference System, I hope it gives you many years of enjoyment.

Ken

 

[marty]

Hi Mike,

I am in no position to dispute the findings of you and your friends in your head-to-head comparison of the Wadax Reference DAC and MSB Select II DAC. I’m sure you know what you heard.

I just have one last question and I’ll let this rest. Did you ever send the Select II DAC (specifically the DAC chassis) back to MSB for an inspection / tuneup? Your particular Select II DAC traveled halfway around the world and back (California, Eastern Europe, New York City, Seattle) and the two previous owners didn’t hold onto it for very long. Is it possible that this Select II DAC isn’t performing at 100%? There are some individuals of note who believe this may be the case.

Ken

So let me see if I got this right. You respected Mike's opinion regarding the MSB when you were both in agreement, savoring your abilities to agree on discerning all the fine points of audio listening to great gear. But now that he has expressed a sincere preference for another brand, you question whether he can tell if a piece of gear he owns is defective? C'mon man, that's a bridge too far. If I were so inclined to hurl insults at a friend, my second choice would be to at least do it privately! My first instinct however, would just be to let it go and respect his decision.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Audio is not a competition .
Its quit the opposite , if it slows time / brings back time you ve got good gear.
Whether it be Wadax for one or MSB for somebody else

 

[spiritofmusic]

Pity the poor Linn CD12 owner who's still upset that Mike moved on from his.

 

[Stereophonic]

I understand @Alpinist message on positive way….
He is asking and answering himself. It isn’t easy to understand how a “new” brand has entered with so power in US Audio Circuit.
He is looking for what is wrong with Mike’s MSB to understand how is possible to better MSB sound.
We all need time and patience to understand a new component and if it reach our goals…
Wadax has raised the bar, and it needs to be digest….in the right way.

 

[K3RMIT]

Can any of this be a change is good ?
I’m sure both wadax and msb dacs are great, but when some thing new , is also great it tends to be amazing. when I read mike had a new dac I also knew he would use there server.
It just makes good sense to me.
And I’m not looking for replies why the server is better. i think something’s are baked in up Front. If it were me it would have to be all wadax period