Wait pays off - Hit the Spectral jackpot
- Thread starter edorr
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Eric, congrats on the Spectral amps, and based on my tastes and knowledge of the MM3's () i'm not surprised that you prefer them. i don't really know the Jungson JA-200 at all, but the neutrality and transparency of the Spectral's should work well with the MM3's.
i would recommend that you do consider how you 'feel' about the music after listening as well as what your ears tell you. are you as anxious to keep listening with the Spectral amps over extended times as with the Jungson's?
sometimes additional transparency is entertaining in the short term, but wears on you over the longer term. it is a fine line of enjoyment verses information i'm referring to.
just something to consider. i have no dog in the fight and am only trying to help you make the best long term choice for your listening pleasure.
Kind of how I feel when listening to PCM.
edorr - I have been using the exact same combination for a number of years now and never felt the need to look elsewhere. The path I will take is to eventually get the 400's. One inexpensive tweak you might want to try is Audiophile fuses. I'm running Hi-Fi Supreme in amps, preamps and MM3's.
Good to know I'm not the first to tread this path. I think the 300rs may be a more logical upgrade path, given that I won't need 400rs level power on the mm3. Will be enjoying the 360s first for a while and get cabling sorted out first though.
Congrats on the new gear, enjoy! Something you may want to consider if you do stay with your initial plan to keep the Spectral gear, you speaker cables and ic's are not the best match. The dot or V MIT cables are a bit different than the Matrix/MA. There's some info on the MIT site that talks a little bit about the differences but like most gear it's best heard. My take on it ...if you prefer the character of the 90 speaker cables then something like the Matrix 50 would be a good mate, if you prefer the V ic's, then V speaker cables would be a better mate. For me this would be especially important combined with the level of resolution those Spectral devices operate at.
Thanks. Good advice. I had an exchange with MIT who also suggested the MAtrix/MA would work a lot better than the V series in my application. Thankfully, one of the online MIT dealers has an MA-X cable he is willing to trade for my v1.3, so I'll take him up on his offer.
For DAC to preamp, I will get my Transparent recalibrated, and stay on the lookout for a killer deal on a second MA-X to show up (eventually they always do). I will then do a shootout between the MA-X and the transparent and keep the winner.
Meanwhile, a second listening session confirmed the initial impressions. The improvement in dynamics and "attack" is astounding. My old amps sound flat out lazy in comparison. Again, very intriguingly (the bass modules on my speakers have their own poweramp) even the low bass appears to have improved significantly. I played "Gitane" (by Charlie Haden and Christian Escoude), and the bass was visceral, unlike ever experienced before.
Congrats on your acquisition. One of the reasons I stopped considering self-powered bass speakers is because I would lose the Spectral bass articulation, which is in my view undoubtedly phenomenal and along the same lines like everything else these amps do.
That is why your bass sounds better from your subs. When you have speakers with built in powered subs that are fed from the main amp, the subs takes on the characteristic of the external amp that is feeding the sub amps.
Congratulations on your new Spectral amps!
Spectral gear is phenomenal; the DMA-260 that I have auditioned last year was the first SS amp I heard that for me got micro-dynamics right (I am a sucker for that, I have been a tubeophile all my audiophile life principally because of that aspect of reproduction).
Actually, I have found the same phenomenon holds if your subs are powered from line feed. As I observe in my review of the BorderPatrol power supplies for my tube amps, linked in my signature:
"After installation not every benefit of the PSUs was evident right away, since the units needed some break-in time. Yet one thing stood out from the start: unexpectedly, it was the bass. It is sensational, and it alone would have been worth the upgrade -- many solid state aficionados would give the world for that bass if they'd hear it, I am sure. I had previously found the bass already excellent with my amps, yet now the power and control on many rock albums seemed unreal, I just couldn't believe it. Also, in my favorite recording of Beethoven's Ninth some (deep) bass lines in the second movement, Scherzo, blew me away -- I hadn't even heard them before. Similarly, in Bruckner's Fourth Symphony I heard many beautiful bass lines that I had never consciously noticed before. And all this even though the deep bass was always served by my active subwoofer directly through the variable line output from my DAC -- bypassing the tube amps -- and at the same volume settings. Strangely enough, there is a clear effect of the deep bass now also having significantly more slam following the 'upper edge' of the bass notes from the improved mid and upper bass that comes from the amps, served by the new PSUs, through my main speakers. Interesting how acoustic perception works. -- I suppose the deep bass through the amps themselves would also now be better with the PSUs."
Spectral gear is phenomenal; the DMA-260 that I have auditioned last year was the first SS amp I heard that for me got micro-dynamics right (I am a sucker for that, I have been a tubeophile all my audiophile life principally because of that aspect of reproduction).
Actually, I have found the same phenomenon holds if your subs are powered from line feed. As I observe in my review of the BorderPatrol power supplies for my tube amps, linked in my signature:
"After installation not every benefit of the PSUs was evident right away, since the units needed some break-in time. Yet one thing stood out from the start: unexpectedly, it was the bass. It is sensational, and it alone would have been worth the upgrade -- many solid state aficionados would give the world for that bass if they'd hear it, I am sure. I had previously found the bass already excellent with my amps, yet now the power and control on many rock albums seemed unreal, I just couldn't believe it. Also, in my favorite recording of Beethoven's Ninth some (deep) bass lines in the second movement, Scherzo, blew me away -- I hadn't even heard them before. Similarly, in Bruckner's Fourth Symphony I heard many beautiful bass lines that I had never consciously noticed before. And all this even though the deep bass was always served by my active subwoofer directly through the variable line output from my DAC -- bypassing the tube amps -- and at the same volume settings. Strangely enough, there is a clear effect of the deep bass now also having significantly more slam following the 'upper edge' of the bass notes from the improved mid and upper bass that comes from the amps, served by the new PSUs, through my main speakers. Interesting how acoustic perception works. -- I suppose the deep bass through the amps themselves would also now be better with the PSUs."
So I followed the advice and traded in my balanced Oracle v1.3 pro cables for single ended MA-X. Everything set up good to go on single ended signal path. Damn - horrific hum from the poweramps, even with the preamp turned off. Inserted old amps with same single ended cable - no hum. Definitely the DMA 360s. Follow the advice in trouble shooting guide, moved amps away from other gear - hum still there. Last resort advice, lift ground in powercable - problem solved. So now I have two old Gutwire cables with lifted ground and the system works fine. However, not completely comfortable with this, so need some advice:
Should I be concerned something is wrong with the amps, or is this strictly a result of grounding conditions in my system. even if I get it to work for myself, major concern is if I resell I want to make sure the amps are OK.
Should I revert back to balanced IC and grounded AC cords? The guy trading with me may revert the trade if I explain the problem and throw him a few hundred bucks for the hassle.
If I stick with the AC cords with lifted ground, is there a high end cable I can do this with? I have all shunyatas. I believe they can be disassembled, but I want to make sure I don't do anything irreversible.
Should I be concerned something is wrong with the amps, or is this strictly a result of grounding conditions in my system. even if I get it to work for myself, major concern is if I resell I want to make sure the amps are OK.
Should I revert back to balanced IC and grounded AC cords? The guy trading with me may revert the trade if I explain the problem and throw him a few hundred bucks for the hassle.
If I stick with the AC cords with lifted ground, is there a high end cable I can do this with? I have all shunyatas. I believe they can be disassembled, but I want to make sure I don't do anything irreversible.
I don't know if there is a major difference in grounding for the 260 compared to the 360- somebody will have to address that- but I have absolutely no hum on my 260. I'm using Shunyata HC alpha into a Cyclops for the amp, and a MIT Z line (for now) for the preamp and digital sources- plan on going to all Shunyata this fall. I'd call Spectral on this one, just to make sure all is well. They have been very helpful in the past with questions I have had that the dealer couldn't address. Even if all is well, I know it would be bugging me to no end without a sure answer, and you're probably the same. Good luck!
With methodical investigation you should be able to figure this out quickly: 1) are the new interconnects good? measure for continuity and try other cheap RCA interconnects as well; 2) unplug everything and start by reconnecting bottom up (speaker to source), one by one - so first amps and speakers w/o interconnects, etc. 3) Try connecting a CD player directly; still a problem? It feels like you have a ground loop somewhere, not that the amps are bad, though still a possibility. Call the factory too for help; I would also open the amps looking for obvious modifications by the previous owner.
Hum happens with other single ended cable as well, so not a cable issue. Hum is there when connecting DAC direct single ended, so not a preamp issue. Hum is there when plugging amp into different circuit. I also suspect this is not an amp problem, but still a mystery, because none of my other amps (has this problem), and there is no hum when using balanced connection. I'll call spectral this afternoon.
A little Googling suggest it is potentially a ground loop caused by satellite TV receiver - will do some more troubleshooting this evening....
Spectral equipment is extremely sensitive to grounding differentials. Unless your wiring from the amplifier outlet and front end outlet are absolutely identical in their length from your breaker box to those outlets, you will experience a problem with hum. Float the ground to your amps. Run your preamp grounded and the MIT interconnects will then be the ground for the amplifiers. The result will be dead quiet with everything still grounded. This is how I run my Spectral equipment. It sounds fantastic, dead quiet, and there has never been a problem. Give it a try, and you will see!
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