Wbf best system under $30k

[DaveC]

There are fairly large differences in conductivity between conventional and UPOCC wire. UPOCC copper is generally about 3% more conductive than standard ETP copper that is the defined standard at 100% and UPOCC silver is about 2% more conductive than 4N silver. UPOCC silver is a whopping 8% more conductive than ETP copper.

But what matters is the sound and UPOCC metals add less warmth (copper) or harshness (silver) and allow more fine detail to come through. For IC cables this makes a huge difference and you'll never get great soundstaging with copper IC cables, and you'll never hear fine details in acoustic instruments and voices.

FWIW, Delphi Aerospace uses UPOCC copper in a litz arrangement for wiring spacecraft.

Also, many people give me near-identical feedback on the sound of my cables, so either they sound the same to people or there are mass delusions going on.

But whatever, some people just can't hear subtle differences... that's fine. When I was a kid selling electronics it became very obvious to me there is a very wide range of hearing acuity. Some folks can barely hear differences between SPEAKERS! What sucks is the people who can't hear differences insisting there are none. Most of the time they are completely ignorant about cable design and think LCR is all there is to it. Sorry, but that's wrong. There are other factors, many of which become critical for high frequency cables, and these factors do affect audio frequencies, although much more subtly vs higher frequencies. Basically, what makes a good cable for high frequencies also works well for audio, but of course there's also much more to it...

Also, it's interesting to me that people that think there are no differences NEVER take me up on offers to try my cables. Never, not once... this is more like dogma or religion. People with true curiosity and an open mind might actually experiment, but those who don't believe are, imo, the least scientific-minded people ever.

Anyway, I'm kinda over arguing about it on the internet.. you can comment on what I said but don't expect a response.

 

[Gregadd]

The Martim Logan Summit in whatever carnation it is currentl in. The haters have documwnted the shortcomings. Put on a recording and everything calms down. I think it was Stereophile that said they turned a specialty itme into a huge success, Now if only I could cllick my heels togeether and bring the company back to Kanasas.
The Moscode 402AU should be a Good match.

Edit:Summit X$14,999. Ouch!

 

[Gregadd]

Line Stage
Phono Preamp

 

[rbbert]

...Edit:Summit X$114,999. Ouch!

I'm pretty sure it is $14,999, well within the ballpark for this topic. As with the Magnepan's, there are listeners who just don't like panel speakers, and others who object to the bass mismatch (dynamic with electrostatic). For them, there have been plenty of other reasonable suggestions here.

 

[Gregadd]

Not to worry i am seeing the eye doctor on Monday.

 

[bonzo75]

The Martim Logan Summit in whatever carnation it is currentl in. The haters have documwnted the shortcomings. Put on a recording and everything calms down. I think it was Stereophile that said they turned a specialty itme into a huge success, Now if only I could cllick my heels togeether and bring the company back to Kanasas.
The Moscode 402AU should be a Good match.

Edit:Summit X$14,999. Ouch!

Summits Used would work, the new are probably too expensive to fit into the 30k system with the rest of the gear they need in terms of good amplification. I would prefer an used Acoustat for those tastes. At used price of 1 - 2k, sounds better, enough room for a good amp, dac, TT, power, etc

 

[Gregadd]

i dont think I had any extended experience witht the Acoustat. They were widely praised and i had no reason to differ from the reports. HP said something about them having a credit card coloration. it's the job of reviewers to locate such qualities. I don't know if you would hear it in every day use..
One of the attractions of ML was their reasonable price that made them a real world option for the average audiophile. The Summit has suffered some "price creep."The Moscode is a deal at $6500. If digital is your thing, a dac/pre could bring you well under budget.

 

[bonzo75]

i dont think I had any extended experience witht the Acoustat. They were widely praised and i had no reason to differ from the reports. HP said something about them having a credit card coloration. it's the job of reviewers to locate such qualities. I don't know if you would hear it in every day use..
One of the attractions of ML was their reasonable price that made them a real world option for the average audiophile. The Summit has suffered some "price creep."The Moscode is a deal at $6500. If digital is your thing, a dac/pre could bring you well under budget.

I ran a system with summits, a lampi with pre, going into AR Ref 110, all used. Still tough to beat on most aspects though bass could have been better, and room size. I did add a pre later though.

What is credit card coloration? And what is Moscode?

 

[Purite Audio]

Amp manufacturer, as to credit card colouration, no idea.
http://www.moscode.com/

Keith.

 

[bonzo75]

I would seriously advise this ribbon magnet hybrid, immensely dynamic, and you can work with Greg to customize it and improve it. This model was available for only 9000 USD, I think - based in NJ. 90 db sensitivity 4 ohm load
24 hz - 30 kHz

http://www.gtaudioworks.com/Products.html

 

[Blizzard]

i dont think I had any extended experience witht the Acoustat. They were widely praised and i had no reason to differ from the reports. HP said something about them having a credit card coloration. it's the job of reviewers to locate such qualities. I don't know if you would hear it in every day use..
One of the attractions of ML was their reasonable price that made them a real world option for the average audiophile. The Summit has suffered some "price creep."The Moscode is a deal at $6500. If digital is your thing, a dac/pre could bring you well under budget.

Have you listened to the Moscode? It looks like a pretty cool design if you like tube sound, but want solid state power. Can't beat the in home trial period either.

 

[Gregadd]

Have you listened to the Moscode? It looks like a pretty cool design if you like tube sound, but want solid state power. Can't beat the in home trial period either.

I've owned thw 300,600,402Hrand 402AU. I don't need to rank it against other amps. if you truly listen to music instead of listening to your system(either way is fine with me) this is an amp you should consider. BTW it was my idea that if you waive the return policy you can save yourselh $500.00.

 

[Gregadd]

WIth respect to Acoustat let me issue the following Spoiler alert. If you love your Acoustat don't read any further. I hate pointing out flaws and ruining your experience with that speaker. I am not saying that will happen but it might.Trying to find faults is what reviewers do.






Hp suggested that plastic honey comb was vibrating along with the music produging a plastic credit card sound. He loved the soeaker nonetheless.

 

[Gregadd]

if covenience is such a big factor in digital.It ought to be portable.SIze does not matter.. It appears to have DSD.

 

[bonzo75]

WIth respect to Acoustat let me issue the following Spoiler alert. If you love your Acoustat don't read any further. I hate pointing out flaws and ruining your experience with that speaker. I am not saying that will happen but it might.Trying to find faults is what reviewers do.

Hp suggested that plastic honey comb was vibrating along with the music produging a plastic credit card sound. He loved the soeaker nonetheless.

Yes and it would cost 1 - 2K? Btw I heard it with a hybrid, and the 2 + 2 model. I am actually pretty sensitive to plastic sound. Didn't see it there.

 

[Gregadd]

Since there is such a huge following I think my speaker choice is the Magnepan 20.7 at less $14k I hope that's right. Combine that witht Bryston 28b $9.6k monos. WHile the Maggies aare visually imposing they really are not that big. I really regard cables as an accessory. I woant to combine that with whaever the latest digital format. That means a dac preamp combo.That'll be around 24k$ leaving you with $6k.Y ou could substitue the PS AUdio BHK 300 if you need tubes. I certainly would. At the $15k.

WIth the Hybrid amp you gover, Apair of Moscode 40AU at around $ would be better. You could see if the Benchmark DAcPre/floats yourr boat.









6k for digital

 

[esldude]

I owned Acoustat 2s for several years. Had experience with 1+1, 3, and 2+2 models. I do think they had a credit card coloration. I heard some 2+2s with damping added to the plastic panels which did not seem to have it. It also seems as if class D amps driving them don't have it. The latter making me wonder if it wasn't an electrical damping issue with those speakers. Class D amps of quality have exceptional damping in the low end. Of course the plasticky coloration was not terribly overt and vs box speakers at the time nothing to get upset about when all is said and done.

Now the last Moscode I heard was one of the old 300 models driving of all things a pair of Maggies. A nice sound it made too.

 

[DaveyF]

I owned Acoustat 3 M's with the Medallion mod for several years. I never could get them to sound that great. Tried them in big rooms, medium size rooms and small rooms..nothing helped. What I came to realize years later was that nothing could make up for their lack of dynamics, the credit card coloration mentioned above by esldude, and their inability to truly portray much in the bass dept. Compared to a pair of Quad ESl 63's that a friend owned, they were not even that resolving. Personally, i can think of a load of speakers from the same era that are far superior. I traded my Maggie 1 imp for them...that was mistake #1.

 

[esldude]

I owned Acoustat 3 M's with the Medallion mod for several years. I never could get them to sound that great. Tried them in big rooms, medium size rooms and small rooms..nothing helped. What I came to realize years later was that nothing could make up for their lack of dynamics, the credit card coloration mentioned above by esldude, and their inability to truly portray much in the bass dept. Compared to a pair of Quad ESl 63's that a friend owned, they were not even that resolving. Personally, i can think of a load of speakers from the same era that are far superior. I traded my Maggie 1 imp for them...that was mistake #1.

I sold mine after I purchased some Quad ESL-63s.

 

[bonzo75]

Has anyone heard stacked quads with OTL amps?