What are some great 300B SET amps $5-7K?

[SVS]

Sorry but you made some rather objective characterization about sound properties that you believed to be from the tube…not a discussion of preference. Both Acoustics guru and I disagree with this characterization due to direct experience with the tube and in designs wher it just doesn’t sound as you describe.

I am not arguing with your tastes, but you are denying my right to have my own. I wrote that this is my opinion, not the truth in the last instance.
Have you heard with the Acoustic Gurus how a SET amplifier sounds with a duo of different output tubes? These are single-stroke monoblocks with an output power of 36 W, which are produced together by 6?33? and 811?. Gurus have to know everything, that's why they are gurus.

 

[acousticsguru]

This is your impression, I have a different opinion. My friends make
https://audiolot.com.ua/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=54
Therefore, I know the subject well.
They have 2 options: 30W and 40W. I would not include them in my audio system.
I participated in several screenings and had the opportunity to see and listen to many different devices. I don't remember the names of the things that don't impress me, look at the reviews from the last Audio Video Show in Warsaw, you'll definitely find GM70 amplifiers there.

Warsaw Day Two: Exotica

The GMG power conditioner from Czechoslovakia, produced by Peter and Pavel Geryer.

www.stereophile.com

Audio Video Show 2022

Po dwuletniej covidowej przerwie Audio Video Show powróciło. W miniony weekend, po raz 24 odbyła się ulubiona impreza miłośników audiofilskiego dźwięku i obrazu. Audio Video Show to drugą co do wielkości imprezą tego typu w Europie Wystawa odbywała się w trzech lokalizacjach: PGE Narodowy oraz w ...

www.audiostereo.pl

Audio Video Show Warsaw 2022 Report 4 | Hifi Pig

Audio Video Show Warsaw 2022 Report 4 - More coverage of the Warsaw HiFi Show from Saturday at the Sobieski Hotel

www.hifipig.com

https://trackingangle.com/features/warsaw-audio-video-show-2022-video-day-one-video-coverage (26-08)

Audio Video Show Warszawa 2022

Magico.

www.hifisentralen.no

At the exhibition in Washava, we received an invitation to participate in the exhibitions in the USA in Florida and AKSPONA, but the war did not allow us to do this. Unfortunately.

That’s not a matter of opinion nor taste: we’re not talking about the same thing. I have no problem believing someone is incapable of designing a good sounding amp around any tube, especially a more challenging proposition such as GM70. But to think someone like Vlad Lamm would design his flagship amplifier (especially after he’d “mined the 6c33c for about 15 years prior and felt that the flagship deserves better”, as an audiophile acquaintance put it) on the basis of a “grainy”-sounding output tube is pretty far-fetched. So you’ve heard inferior GM70 designs: I can easily believe that. Several people around here have heard highly successful applications. Where does that leave our verdict on the tube itself? Apparently not as easy to design and build an amp as putting together “Lego”, as you put it. And…?

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[acousticsguru]

I am not arguing with your tastes, but you are denying my right to have my own. I wrote that this is my opinion, not the truth in the last instance.
Have you heard with the Acoustic Gurus how a SET amplifier sounds with a duo of different output tubes? These are single-stroke monoblocks with an output power of 36 W, which are produced together by 6?33? and 811?. Gurus have to know everything, that's why they are gurus.

These look cool, by the way! Would be curious to hear them. I concur with @morricab that I’ve been hearing a common theme in 6C33C amps as well, so it’s never seemed to me as if it didn’t have a signature of its own, but I also concur with you that the choice of driver tube may have an even greater effect on the sound.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[flm09]

For me I only heard one time the 6c33c in stereo mode on an all BAT system using their Vk-50 pre amp and I believe the store had them with Martin Logan Sequels forgot the digital front end. From memory they struck me as having a clear sweet crystalline quality. I could hear into the music. At that time the Lamms were contenders for best amps in world. Never got to hear Lamms!

 

[Fishfood]

I still am using Sun Audio 300B which is about $3500 new and I've tried a couple that retail in that price range and I haven't been able to hear a difference.

I was very impressed with the new 300B amp that Alexus Audio brought to Capital Audiofest 2022 to use with my favorite speakers (Bache Audio):

Bache Audio & Alexus Audio from Brooklyn

I have to admit, at past shows, Bache Audio's Greg Belman has urged me to visit his and Alex Choren's shared Alexus Audio room, and I've begged off, "too busy" the usual lame excuse. But this time I didn't and damn! I was glad I made it into this small oasis of good music and excellent...

www.stereophile.com

Alexus makes some incredible gear:

alexusaudio

suono perfetto

alexusaudio.com

Those are beautiful! Not tube rectified though? Did you notice? Tough to tell from the photo.

 

[SVS]

That’s not a matter of opinion nor taste: we’re not talking about the same thing. I have no problem believing someone is incapable of designing a good sounding amp around any tube, especially a more challenging proposition such as GM70. But to think someone like Vlad Lamm would design his flagship amplifier (especially after he’d “mined the 6c33c for about 15 years prior and felt that the flagship deserves better”, as an audiophile acquaintance put it) on the basis of a “grainy”-sounding output tube is pretty far-fetched. So you’ve heard inferior GM70 designs: I can easily believe that. Several people around here have heard highly successful applications. Where does that leave our verdict on the tube itself? Apparently not as easy to design and build an amp as putting together “Lego”, as you put it. And…?

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

Again, I am writing to you about my perception of sound.
A friend of mine classifies the sound as "studio" and "concert". I agree that such a classification has the right to life, but as an engineer I understand the technical reasons for this difference. This is general feedback, amplifiers with a "concert" sound do not have it, but with a "studio" sound they do. "Studio" sound is more refined, but you immediately feel that it is not real, not alive. I prefer "concert" sound and try to get it in my devices.
By the way, Vlad Lamm is our countryman, before leaving the USA he was engaged in the development of amplifiers in Ukraine in the city of Lviv and his name was Vlad Shushurin. He did not provide the circuits of his amplifiers, but the results of their measurements, which can be found on the Internet, show that he used feedback.

 

[SVS]

Those are beautiful! Not tube rectified though? Did you notice? Tough to tell from the photo.

Thanks. Yes, tube rectifiers are used in monoblocks.

 

[morricab]

I am not arguing with your tastes, but you are denying my right to have my own. I wrote that this is my opinion, not the truth in the last instance.
Have you heard with the Acoustic Gurus how a SET amplifier sounds with a duo of different output tubes? These are single-stroke monoblocks with an output power of 36 W, which are produced together by 6?33? and 811?. Gurus have to know everything, that's why they are gurus.

I am not arguing with your tastes either but you made statements about sound characteristics not preferences and generalized what you heard from a particular amp with ALL GM70 amps because you think it’s an inherent tube trait and not specific to the amp design. I disagree with your sound characterization of that tube because I, like Acousticsguru, have heard more than one example of GM70 amp that DO NOT have the characteristics you attributed to the GM70 tube. I was challenging your generalization about the tubes inherent characteristics not whether or not you like amps with that tube or prefer another tube type sound.
IMO, it is a wrong generalization as you have not heard all or even most GM70 amps out there. You seem to be basing your view on one amp in which you were familiar with the design and heard it in various iterations. That is far from exhaustive as there are lots of reasons that amp design might not sound great…like output transformers for starters…and other passive components…or the chosen operating points of the tubes…lots of possibilities.

 

[SVS]

In my opinion, the sound of GM70 seems "grainy", a bit brutal and lacks sophistication. I have heard more than a dozen different amplifiers with the GM70 and they all have these characteristics. My friends experimented with drivers for GM70 and could not overcome these features. Unlike the 6?33?, the sound of which can be assembled like Lego.

I am not arguing with your tastes either but you made statements about sound characteristics not preferences and generalized what you heard from a particular amp with ALL GM70 amps because you think it’s an inherent tube trait and not specific to the amp design. I disagree with your sound characterization of that tube because I, like Acousticsguru, have heard more than one example of GM70 amp that DO NOT have the characteristics you attributed to the GM70 tube. I was challenging your generalization about the tubes inherent characteristics not whether or not you like amps with that tube or prefer another tube type sound.

I don't understand why this is for you, but you are now acting in the old communist traditions of the times of the Soviet Union. Then someone was unjustly accused and obstruction was started against him.

Firstly, I am writing that this is my opinion, secondly, I am talking only about those amplifiers that I have heard myself. There is not a single letter about ALL amplifiers on GM70.

I don't want to talk about this topic anymore.

 

[morricab]

I don't understand why this is for you, but you are now acting in the old communist traditions of the times of the Soviet Union. Then someone was unjustly accused and obstruction was started against him.

Firstly, I am writing that this is my opinion, secondly, I am talking only about those amplifiers that I have heard myself. There is not a single letter about ALL amplifiers on GM70.

I don't want to talk about this topic anymore.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Obstructing you?? You have posted just as freely as I have. You clearly just don’t like to be challenged on what you say and then want to backpedal rather than construct a logical argument or at least give concrete examples to support your assertion that the GM70 is grainy and brutal.
You generalized the sound of the GM70 based “dozens of amps you have heard”, did you not? You don’t have to say all for that to mean all. Why are you being dishonest from your own words??

 

[acousticsguru]

I don't understand why this is for you, but you are now acting in the old communist traditions of the times of the Soviet Union. Then someone was unjustly accused and obstruction was started against him.

Firstly, I am writing that this is my opinion, secondly, I am talking only about those amplifiers that I have heard myself. There is not a single letter about ALL amplifiers on GM70.

I don't want to talk about this topic anymore.

But that is the problem: you made the remark about the tube itself, not someone's inability to design an amplifier with it. By the same token, there are audiophiles who perpetuate the belief that the 300B sounds "sirupy". It takes only one designer and amplifier to prove this isn't the tube's fault.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[SVS]

But that is the problem: you made the remark about the tube itself, not someone's inability to design an amplifier with it. By the same token, there are audiophiles who perpetuate the belief that the 300B sounds "sirupy". It takes only one designer and amplifier to prove this isn't the tube's fault.

What's the problem, I don't have the right to think like that and express my opinion?

 

[acousticsguru]

What's the problem, I don't have the right to think like that and express my opinion?

What is your „opinion“? You offered a broad generalization that GM70 is a grainy and brutal sounding tube (etc.). The reality is, we’re all audiophiles, so we’ve all heard our share of crappy designs and builds. That’s when it might be wise to defer judgment instead of jumping to conclusions. Because again, it defies logic that Vlad Lamm and Andrzej Piwowarczyk are/were able to design and build some of the finest SET amps based on a “grainy”-sounding tube (and there are more respected brands who base their flagship amplifiers on the GM70, e.g. Destination Audio and OMA / Oswald’s Mill Audio).

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[acousticsguru]

What is your „opinion“? You offered a broad generalization that GM70 is a grainy and brutal sounding tube (etc.). The reality is, we’re all audiophiles, so we’ve all heard our share of crappy designs and builds. That’s when it might be wise to defer judgment instead of jumping to conclusions. Because again, it defies logic that Vlad Lamm and Andrzej Piwowarczyk are/were able to design and build some of the finest SET amps based on a “grainy”-sounding tube (and there are more respected brands who base their flagship amplifiers on the GM70, e.g. Destination Audio and OMA / Oswald’s Mill Audio).

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

Personally, I never judge the inherent quality of anything on the basis of the worst I’ve experienced. That would be as if one accepted Murphy's Law as life mantra.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[SVS]

What is your „opinion“? You offered a broad generalization that GM70 is a grainy and brutal sounding tube (etc.). The reality is, we’re all audiophiles, so we’ve all heard our share of crappy designs and builds. That’s when it might be wise to defer judgment instead of jumping to conclusions. Because again, it defies logic that Vlad Lamm and Andrzej Piwowarczyk are/were able to design and build some of the finest SET amps based on a “grainy”-sounding tube (and there are more respected brands who base their flagship amplifiers on the GM70, e.g. Destination Audio and OMA / Oswald’s Mill Audio).

I don't understand what it is about. Quote my "broad generalization". Of course, I am pleased that my private opinion is so important to you.
All very similar lobbying of the interests of manufacturers of devices using GM70.

 

[SVS]

Personally, I never judge the inherent quality of anything on the basis of the worst I’ve experienced. That would be as if one accepted Murphy's Law as life mantra.

I have a slightly different principle, once is an event, twice is a coincidence, three times is the norm.

 

[acousticsguru]

In my opinion, the sound of GM70 seems "grainy", a bit brutal and lacks sophistication. I have heard more than a dozen different amplifiers with the GM70 and they all have these characteristics. My friends experimented with drivers for GM70 and could not overcome these features. Unlike the 6?33?, the sound of which can be assembled like Lego.

Christoph asked you explicitly about the signature of the tube itself: "What IS the "voice" of the GM70, then?" You're stating opinion as fact, clearly implying the fault is with the tube and that these "features" (= of the tube!) could not be "overcome", ignoring the fact that a number of capable and reputable designers can and have built flagship amplifiers that have none of these traits. That's not just generalization, indirectly and without noticing, you're making a disparaging remark about people you call your friends.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[acousticsguru]

I have a slightly different principle, once is an event, twice is a coincidence, three times is the norm.

Again: opinion stated as fact.

Cross a busy highway blindfolded 99 times, surviving unscathed. The 100th time crossing it blindfolded, is it now safe or safer or do probabilities remain the same?

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

[SVS]

You're stating opinion as fact,

I wrote: "In my opinion, the sound of GM70 seems "grainy", a bit brutal and lacks sophistication."
You say that the meaning of my words was: "The sound of GM70 seems "grainy", a bit brutal and lacks sophistication."
Do you feel the difference?

In general, I think, I emphasize that this is my personal opinion, it became so popular because of its cheapness, great power and large stocks in warehouses.

I do not pretend to be an Audio guru.

 

[acousticsguru]

I wrote: "In my opinion, the sound of GM70 seems "grainy", a bit brutal and lacks sophistication."
You say that the meaning of my words was: "The sound of GM70 seems "grainy", a bit brutal and lacks sophistication."
Do you feel the difference?

In general, I think, I emphasize that this is my personal opinion, it became so popular because of its cheapness, great power and large stocks in warehouses.

That would seem like a reason to build inexpensive high-powered SET amps around it, as it’s been done for 845 (make of it what you will). It would certainly NOT be a reason for top echelon designers to choose it for their flagship amplifiers (e.g. the Lamm ML3 costs 140k).

Greetings from Switzerland, David.