What do we expect at the show?

[MylesBAstor]

It's taken me close to a year with my current system to have it set up right. I don't care how much you spend on a system. It will take months to reach it's full potential...tweaking the room, components and cables, isolation, ect.

Exactly, so people should cut the exhibitors a break! Exhibitors certainly do try. Also, many make a judgement based on one day. The equipment may be new (one would be shocked just how often this is the case), something may be on the fritz from shipping, room acoustics, something got lost, etc. You just don't know. Usually, unless something sounds amazing out of the gate, I don't "judge" any room until Sunday.

Another consideration is that exhibitors combine resources to pay for a room and they don't know how things will sound until they arrive. Right or wrong, that is the economic reality.

But I understand most attendees don't have the time. And neither do I sometimes and miss things too.

 

[MRJAZZ]

I think the mbl X-treme's and the Focal Grand Utopia's certainly filled the space quite nicely!

I would concur. I was unable to leave my demo room during the show but was able to get into the MBL EXTREME late night demo on SATURDAY night, and with Greg Baron's tape's playing various selections, including HUGH MASEKELA'S HOPE, they had no problem pressurizing this large space. Very dynamic indeed !.
Cheers...........T.

 

[c1ferrari]

...Q7...the sound still sucks!

I would offer a differing opinion to my good friend, Bruce, as it is germane to this year's sound.
The sound emanating from VAC electronics in tandem with the Q7 loudspeakers in that room weren't objectionable.

Incomprehensibly priced...perhaps

 

[c1ferrari]

Here's the interesting thing Bruce...while you and I might think that the sound sucks, these guys don't necessarily agree with that. For example, my experience in the AudioNote room...the rep argued with me with me that in his opinion, the system should NOT display depth or for that matter imaging. He believed that there is no depth portrayed in 'live' music...and was adamant in the belief that the system sounded great without the ability to truly image or portray any depth of field!
Needless to say, I didn't stay too long in that room

The AN rep's characterization of depth notwithstanding, the AN rig at The Atrium(?) created sound from a full AN system that I found enjoyable.
Typically, full AN systems sound too homogenized to me.

 

[dallasjustice]

Shows are about bullshittin' with folks. If there happens to be good music in the hotel, it's a bonus. Anyone that goes to a show expecting to hear one of the best systems they have ever heard before, needs to rethink their own system at home first. Shows are about the people that produce and sell the gear, not achieving ultimate music reproduction.

 

[Mosin]

Well if there are good sounds at the show, then we must believe the exhibitor took the time to set up the system properly. Everyone is dealt the same hand and there is a level playing field. Most of these exhibitors have had the same rooms year after year and they know the strengths/weaknesses. I'd place the blame solely on the exhibitor. If they can't improve from year to year and overcome the known problems they're faced with, then I have no use for them.
How many years has the Q7 been in that back room and year after year the sound still sucks!

I agree for the most part. There are, however, instances where a product is added at the last minute that can gum up the works. I showed once where the sample brought by an associate was right out of the box. Unfortunately, it had Mundorf silver caps inside that had zero hours on them. Fortunately, my exhibit was more of a proof of concept thing than anything else, so I got a pass. I'm sure worse has happened to a lot of guys. Regardless, preparation and some sort of mission plan is in order. Otherwise, it is money wasted.

Shows are about bullshittin' with folks. If there happens to be good music in the hotel, it's a bonus. Anyone that goes to a show expecting to hear one of the best systems they have ever heard before, needs to rethink their own system at home first. Shows are about the people that produce and sell the gear, not achieving ultimate music reproduction.

It is a great place to meet people, and visit old friends. When you are paying to show it's a bit different from merely attending, though. When you are exhibiting you want to be noticed, but in a good way!

 

[Bruce B]

Speaking of music, did anyone hear Snoop Dogg on a pair of $280k mbl's? Too cool....

 

[audioguy]

If I were a show participant and was using digital sources, I would most certainly use something like Dirac (room correction) on a server. Since, as someone else noted, the show is about getting (good) attention, why not do everything possible to minimize the room. A bit of passive room treatment and something like Dirac would greatly improve the listening experience. In fact, I would also run analog through the system by using a 24/192 ADC in front of the Dirac system. Since Dirac has options about how much of the listening space to optimize, I can't think if any reason not to do something like this.

Maybe 15 years ago, Jeff Rowland used a (hidden) SigTech (digital room correction system) at a CES and won best of show.

 

[Joel]

As far as I am concerned, I would say my main expectation remains meeting the guy behind the machine.
I think audio shows are quite a unique opportunity to talk to designers and company founders. IMO there are not many other businesses where you can meet designers at exhibitions...
Listening conditions are unfortunately what they are and we should also consider that manufacturers have to face various expectations at the same time from their audience. For instance, when I listen to any Britney Spears recording at very high SPL in the Avantgarde demo room, I won't be able to have any positive feedback about this demo meanwhile other will have a different opinion...

 

[KeithR]

Speaking of music, did anyone hear Snoop Dogg on a pair of $280k mbl's? Too cool....

I heard battling rooms on the same Metallica "And Justice for All", courtesy of Brian Berdan's folks.

Anytime I heard that one Hugh Masekela track, I left that room. I did see one room with a sign that said no Diana Krall or Patricia Barber allowed

 

[Peter Breuninger]

We took Hugh Masekela off our playlist two shows ago. I turn the camera off if I go into a room with the other above artists.

 

[jazdoc]

It's taken me close to a year with my current system to have it set up right. I don't care how much you spend on a system. It will take months to reach it's full potential...tweaking the room, components and cables, isolation, ect.

Christian,
Considering all the changes in your system, I consider that a herculean feat!

I will admit to not being the sharpest tool in the shed, but it takes me weeks to get my system dialed in after an arm, cable or cartridge change. IMO, aspiring to demo with a vinyl system at a show is akin to an audio kamikazie mission...

I completely agree with the sentiments that a show is more about meeting the people behind the equipment and hanging with otherwise anonymous internet audio buddies. High end companies are typically small operations; often one person is the business. If you are buying their equipment, you are buying the person. I only take notice if the equipment in the system sounds good. I'm unble to draw any conclusions about equipment if a show system doesn't sound good,. It does make wonder when I've heard a particular component in various systems and the systems have never sounded good.

I find myself amused by folks who can walk into a room at RMAF and pontificate about a particular component or cable. YMMV, etc.

 

[rbbert]

We took Hugh Masekela off our playlist two shows ago. I turn the camera off if I go into a room with the other above artists.

IMHO, it's not really fair to lump Hugh Masekela with the other two...

 

[Bruce B]

IMHO, it's not really fair to lump Hugh Masekela with the other two...

There are a lot of great songs on the album "Hope" besides "Stimela".

 

[garylkoh]

There are a lot of great songs on the album "Hope" besides "Stimela".

+1

If it weren't for audio shows, I would never have heard "Hope" on the album. The other songs IMHO are far better artistically.

 

[audioguy]

I find myself amused by folks who can walk into a room at RMAF and pontificate about a particular component or cable. YMMV, etc.

+1

I read more than one audio reviewer state something like: amplifier "X" sounded fantastic in the the "Y" room. Given they have never been in the room, already stated they had never heard "X" nor any of the other equipment in the room I find that just a tad more than humorous. Clearly those are "gifted" reviewers!!!

 

[microstrip]

Some of my best listening experiences were at shows. This does not mean that the sound at these sessions was perfect - but they had an unique set of positive and exceptional qualities and no too strong disqualifying negatives that made the session outstanding.

Shows have many positive informative and social opportunities as outlined by other posters, but if you are an experienced listener wanting to learn can be a great source of audio knowledge and will increase your perception of the possibilities of stereo. However I recognize that it is much easier to bash the poor cases and complain than describing adequately the valuable ones.

 

[FrantzM]

Christian,
<snip>

I find myself amused by folks who can walk into a room at RMAF and pontificate about a particular component or cable. YMMV, etc.

+1

I read more than one audio reviewer state something like: amplifier "X" sounded fantastic in the the "Y" room. Given they have never been in the room, already stated they had never heard "X" nor any of the other equipment in the room I find that just a tad more than humorous. Clearly those are "gifted" reviewers!!!

+2

I do not know all the particulars and logistics of Audio shows. I would still expect the designers/manufacturers to make all efforts to have a decent sound. Too often the system sounds utterly bad almost unanimously, yet the dealer or manufacturer or its rep seem not to notice. For a new manufacturer this is unforgivable... Impressions are made in shows... Lasting impressions in fact. Few people will buy from an unknown brand after a bad showing... the chances to change those impressions are slim. Established manufacturers, OTOH are shielded by their reputation and their army of fanatics, even if the product is not intrinsically good

 

[DaveyF]

+2

I do not know all the particulars and logistics of Audio shows Impressions are made in shows... Lasting impressions in fact. Few people will buy from an unknown brand after a bad showing... the chances to change those impressions are slim. Established manufacturers, OTOH are shielded by their reputation and their army of fanatics, even if the product is not intrinsically good

I'm not so sure that established manufacturer's are shielded IF they develop a pattern of poor performance. The other point here is what Jack brought up, what is gained by the manufacturer attending the show? Are they able to secure enough sales at, or indirectly from, the show to make it all worth while?
Perhaps I can ask UK Paul this question ( or any other manufacturer who cares to answer)...not only did he have to fly in from the UK...BUT he had to display his goods and attend three or more days at the event. Was this a worthwhile endeavor for you Paul?

 

[mep]

+2

I do not know all the particulars and logistics of Audio shows. I would still expect the designers/manufacturers to make all efforts to have a decent sound. Too often the system sounds utterly bad almost unanimously, yet the dealer or manufacturer or its rep seem not to notice. For a new manufacturer this is unforgivable... Impressions are made in shows... Lasting impressions in fact. Few people will buy from an unknown brand after a bad showing... the chances to change those impressions are slim. Established manufacturers, OTOH are shielded by their reputation and their army of fanatics, even if the product is not intrinsically good

How do you get an "army" of fanatics with a product that "is not intrinsically good?"